Help me choose between these Speakers. PLS - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys, new to the forums here.

From reading the user's posts there's more valuable information and more knowledge than let's say "amazon reviews"...

Now to the point, I'm researching for a Christmas present budget HT (new house, new baby) for my square 16 x 16 living room (actually it's a big rectangular space overall, on left it's open to same size kitchen)

Use would be 70% OTA HD TV, Hulu Plus HD + Amazon Prime HD content. 30% Pandora, shoutcast music streams.

So, trying to stay away from HTIB options, I would like some input from you on what I've gathered so far as my best options (in order of preference):

Option #1

- Energy Take 5 $139.99 (newegg)
- Dayton Audio SUB-1000 $99.00 (parts-express)

Option #2

- Polk Audio RM705 $230.36 (amazon)

Option #3

- Jamo S 426 HCS 3 $169.99 (amazon)
- Dayton Audio SUB-1000 $99.00 (parts-express)

I've been reading and see mixed impressions of the Jamo, Polk looks kinda dated aesthetically, and very good recommendations on Energy even though it could be small for my living room no?

Also have also noticed I've been missing many deals, which makes me realize it might not be the best timing.

But as I said it'd be a great Christmas as it's a great excuse to spend the $$$ biggrin.gif

Open to suggestions also, Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, how about a Pioneer SP-XXX1 setup?

- Pioneer SP-BS41 $89.99 (newegg)
- Pioneer SP-BS21 $69.99 (ebay)
- Pioneer SP-C21 $49.99 (newegg)
- Pioneer SW-8 $79.99 (newegg)

That totals $289.96 shipping to my doorstep included. Any thoughts? I see deals ending 12/2 at newegg.

Should I wait for a next/better deal?

Thanks
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tavuslokus View Post

OK, how about a Pioneer SP-XXX1 setup?
- Pioneer SP-BS41 $89.99 (newegg)
- Pioneer SP-BS21 $69.99 (ebay)
- Pioneer SP-C21 $49.99 (newegg)
- Pioneer SW-8 $79.99 (newegg)
That totals $289.96 shipping to my doorstep included. Any thoughts? I see deals ending 12/2 at newegg.
Should I wait for a next/better deal? Thanks

That is a good deal, except sometimes the BS21 shows up cheaper
on NewEgg. >> I would still aim for a different subwoofer, if there is
room in he budget.
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__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #4 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

...aim for a different subwoofer, if there is
room in he budget.

How about this sub instead?

- Dayton Audio SUB-1200 $97.80 (parts express) EXTRA $ for shipping*
* added another product for $1.25 more and my shipping is $14.95 instead of $49.80. So it's $114 total shipped.

About the Pioneer setup I noticed this on another thread dated 1 week ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Another bargain are Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers which are on clearance.
Pioneer BS41 bookshelf $84/pr
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406
Pioneer BS21 bookshelf $39/pr for surrounds
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405
Pioneer C-21 center $49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404
That's less than $175 for 5 speakers.

Maybe I should wait for better deals closer to XMAS...rolleyes.gif
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post #5 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tavuslokus View Post

How about this sub instead?
- Dayton Audio SUB-1200 $97.80 (parts express) EXTRA $ for shipping*

The Dayton sub is up to you (a good price), and some people like it. However not for me.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #6 of 22 Old 11-30-2012, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I see from the amazon price tracker that the new models were pretty comparable prices few days ago.

- Pioneer SP-BS22 as Oct. 31 was $105.27 and then it has just been raising.

- Pioneer SP-C22 lowest $59.99, now $10 more. No bad still if the C21 lowest I've seen is the current $49.99.

Is there any significant advantages worth the $ other than the aesthetics?

From specs the C22 at least shows kinda tuned down a bit. (90 W and 4" woofer)

Any thoughts?
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post #7 of 22 Old 11-30-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tavuslokus View Post

I see from the amazon price tracker that the new models were pretty comparable prices few days ago.
- Pioneer SP-BS22 as Oct. 31 was $105.27 and then it has just been raising.
- Pioneer SP-C22 lowest $59.99, now $10 more. No bad still if the C21 lowest I've seen is the current $49.99.
Is there any significant advantages worth the $ other than the aesthetics?
From specs the C22 at least shows kinda tuned down a bit. (90 W and 4" woofer)
Any thoughts?

They are a solid performer, and the smaller BS22 measured better, over the bigger
BS41 speakers in the bass department. The Phase 2 speakers are not a wimp, and
they can get loud. Also, the C22 had a lower -3 db bass point over the C21.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #8 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!.

Seems I missed most deals by now if I wanted to go Pioneer mad.gif

Just have a $40 Pair BS21's from local seller, might just get those.

Any more advice?
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post #9 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 12:30 PM
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The problem with the Pioneer speakers is that their low sensitivity is a bad match for the typical lower-priced receiver that they will be used with. This is a major problem, as it will result in distortion at relatively modest sound levels. It takes too much power to drive them to home theater sound levels, and less-expensive receivers do not have it.

The Polk RM705 is not too bad, but the Energy Take system is pure crap IMO; the front speakers are way too small and the so-called subwoofer is a useless joke! I have seen dozens of posts by people who are sorry they bought it.

If you could spend around $300, the Martin-Logan MLT-2 system is far better than any of the above IMO. It has a much better subwoofer, the front speakers are large enough to give adequate performance, and it is priced quite low right now, considering its quality and performance. I don't know of any other 5.1 packaged system that will give decent performance for much under $500.

Another possibility would be combining the Jamo 5.0 system with the Polk PSW505 subwoofer, which I have seen for as low as $180.

You haven't said whether you have a receiver or plan to buy one. The Onkyo TX-NR414 is one that I would suggest if you don't have one yet. It is under $300 at Amazon and has a lot going for it.
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post #10 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Well most of my other options are kinda gone...Thanks for the advice.

I see the MTL-2 shipped at $279.00, might be a great deal indeed.
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post #11 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 12:49 PM
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That is a good price; $50 better than Amazon right now.

I haven't seen it that low before.
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 12:49 PM
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So how many watts per channel do you think is needed to push the pioneers to their full power, 90? 100? 110?
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post #13 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 12:55 PM
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As I am sure you know, many receivers can't even put out 50 watts per channel when all 5 channels are driven. A receiver that claims more power for TWO channels frequently falls on its ass when asked to drive 5 channels (or 7). Read the actual power tests done by Home Theater magazine and you will see.

Power peaks, though, often take 20 times the average operating power, so it is easy to cause amplifier clipping and distortion on peaks with low-sensitivity speakers. The actual power level where clipping occurs varies dramatically among receivers with similar manufacturer ratings, which are usually dishonest and contrived to mislead the consumer.

A speaker like the Pioneers, at 86 db/watt sensitivity, takes twice the power of a speaker rated for 89 db/watt. Why buy a speaker that takes 2 or 3 times as much power to give the same performance compared to a more typical speaker with better sensitivity? It doesn't make much sense to me.
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post #14 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCDeez View Post

So how many watts per channel do you think is needed to push the pioneers to their full power, 90? 100? 110?

I have actually owned/own the Pioneer speakers - and I can play them loud in a 20 X 30 room. >
Now if you want to buy something small for smaller sound, > like them MLT- 2 satellite speakers,
then that is up to you.

An efficient receiver, like the Denon 1612 receiver - can drive the Pioneers.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

...You haven't said whether you have a receiver or plan to buy one. The Onkyo TX-NR414 is one that I would suggest if you don't have one yet. It is under $300 at Amazon and has a lot going for it.

No receiver here yet. I made a thread on the rec. forum section asking for advice on that.

(http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442248/help-me-choose-between-these-receivers-pls#post_22657177)

Recommended was the Denon 1612 from the options I had there. I'm trying to stay close to $200 as I've seen deals including the 414 go for $199.
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post #16 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 01:16 PM
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There is nothing particularly "efficient" about the 1612 receiver. You don't seem to understand what that word means when applied to an amplifier or receiver.

The 1612 DOES, however, put out very good power relative to its specifications, according to the lab tests performed by Home Theater magazine.

Its specifications are much closer to reality than most other receivers.

One extreme example of manufacturer deception that I remember is a $3000 receiver from Anthem that didn't put out anywhere near as much power as the Denon 1612, which sells for less than $300. A real serious ripoff there!
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post #17 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

... if you want to buy something small for smaller sound, > like them MLT- 2 satellite speakers,
then that is up to you...

I'll get those SP-BS21 used like new for $40 the PAIR from CL, I don't think I'll ever get that price online.
Then I can play with them once I get the rest and decide to keep em or not.
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post #18 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 01:18 PM
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The reason I ask is because I have this reciever http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR616&class=Receiver&p=f and was just wondering if it could handle the pioneers?
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post #19 of 22 Old 12-03-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCDeez View Post

The reason I ask is because I have this reciever http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR616&class=Receiver&p=f and was just wondering if it could handle the pioneers?

Yes it can work fine.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #20 of 22 Old 12-04-2012, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Newegg deals have the Pioneer VSX-1022 for $249.99 shipped and Sony STR-DH520 refurb for $149.99 shipped.

Earlier on the Pioneer VSX-822 for $180 shipped caught my eye but missed that deal.

What you think about this? Good deals? I did see the 520 at $189 in amazon so $30 less for refurb doesn't sound like a deal deal.
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post #21 of 22 Old 12-04-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tavuslokus View Post

I see from the amazon price tracker that the new models were pretty comparable prices few days ago.
- Pioneer SP-BS22 as Oct. 31 was $105.27 and then it has just been raising.
- Pioneer SP-C22 lowest $59.99, now $10 more. No bad still if the C21 lowest I've seen is the current $49.99.
Is there any significant advantages worth the $ other than the aesthetics?
From specs the C22 at least shows kinda tuned down a bit. (90 W and 4" woofer)
Any thoughts?

Note that Amazon is not an authorized retailer for Pioneer home audio/video (but oddly it is for DJ equipment). This means no warranty. You can buy from the authorized online dealers here. Unless speakers count as DJ equipment?

[Edit] If you are buying used then I guess that does not matter. Have you read the thread on the pioneers (search forum for Andrew Jones Pioneer)? Seems like the newer models are better in general, but the amount of difference depends on the speaker model. I wonder if you should get the new BS22 over the older BS41 (not redesigned in 2012 unlike the other models)...has anyone compared them?
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post #22 of 22 Old 12-04-2012, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info on the Pioneer's...

I happened to meet up someone from CL and pick up a used PAIR of BS-21's for just $40.00, in box everything just like new.

The Center channel (21) speaker is not on sale anymore, after measuring my center it wouldn't fit in the intended space for it.

The SP-C22 does fit, still running for $69.99 (lowest so far on trackers is $59.99), but it wouldn't match the style of the BS21's I got... rolleyes.gif
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