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post #1 of 61 Old 12-03-2012, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, new to the forum here, looks like there is a wealth of information! I couldn't find the "new guy" forum here at AVS so I chose the closest one I could find.

After spending time with friends who have different setups I decided that I really like Polk products on the 3 following factors, Sound, Money and Form. They all seem to please me well. Below is what I'm interested in getting along with some other information. Let me know if I should change or think about anything if I don't mind. Even though I like the polks, I'm open to anything.

THE BUDGET...
$2000-2500 ish give or take, it isn't really set. I would like to stay away from $3000 though.

THE ROOM...
Room size is roughly 12 X 25. The room has a partial wall on one side up by the TV but that only lasts about 6 feet, past that it opens into another room. Also, where I set my TV there is a door to a bathroom on one side and a rarely used closet on the other. That said I have to be mindful of the total width of everything included. I wouldn't mind moving the sub to get into the closet occasionally but the sub AND a speak might be a bit much.

ALREADY HAVE...
TV: Samsung 51" E8000 Plasma

NEED TO GET...
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR616
Center: Polk CS20
L/R: Polk TSi400
Surround: Polk TSi300 (I know this one is sort of a "to each their own" sort of thing with respect to floor standing, bookshelf or true surrounds. Based on what I've been reading a floor standing model of some type will work best for the room I have to work with and the fact that I rent which makes mounting speakers a bit difficult ... either way, still open to suggestions here)
Sub: Polk DSW Pro 550wi (I've heard this one and it sounds amazing... to me. I was originally looking at the PSW125 until I heard it and was not impressed)

So that's where I'm at ... sorta just staring at the information these days and its all starting to blind me. There's so much!

Thanks for any input!
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post #2 of 61 Old 12-03-2012, 11:59 PM
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Do you have your heart set on the onkyo 616? I ask because the 2eq version of ausyssey room correction it uses does not eq the subwoofer. I would get a unit that uses multi-eq at the minimum. Something along the lines of the denon 1913 is comparable in price and features, or perhaps an older x09 onkyo, the 709 uses multi-eq xt and can be found for great clearance prices.

As for the speakers, since you are interested in the tsi series, have you thought about the monitor series ii or New Monitor series both available from newegg.com. All 3 lines of speakers use the same drivers and only have minor differences in build specs and cosmetics. I know from demoing that the tsi and monitor series ii that they sound identical to me. I have not heard the New Monitors yet but the spec sheets are almost identical to the other two lines. the series ii's can be found for incredible prices when on sale from newegg.com.

As far as subs go, I have not listened to any of the DSW subs, but you are smart in not going with a psw125. the only psw sub worth a damn imo is the psw505. The DSW's are supposed to be fairly decent if somwehat expensive for what you get. You might be better served by an offering from HSU or SVS or outlaw...check into to them.

and there is nothing wrong with using towers as surrounds. In my previous house i used monitor 60's as my surrounds and loved it.

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post #3 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 02:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I looked at the monitors, but passed over them, I'll have to go back and actually listen to them. If they sound the same ... heck, why not. Save a few hundred. I wonder why they have the three lines spec'd so close together. Seems strange. Any idea?

I've heard great things about the subs you mentioned however I've never heard them. I supposed I really need to find a place I can listen to them. For me, I have to hear it before I buy. I know that may seem silly because acoustically it'll change in my room but I can get a decent idea if I can hear them side by side. Maybe I'll luck out and be able to hear a DSW along side them.

Now to the Onkyo ... out of all of this this was the one thing that was a, "I gotta have that." Few reasons - Experience, never had a problem and used them quite a bit. So sorta brand loyal on this part. Simplicity, for everything that the Onkyo does it is incredibly easy to use (for me at lease, albeit I've never really messed with anything else) and that's important because my wife wouldn't want to fool with the complexity... if she's not happy I don't get to buy a thing! BUT I'll have a look at the Denon and see what I come up with smile.gif
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post #4 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 02:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Well after looking at the Denon 1913 I like the specs but it seems a bit on the high price side for what you get. Just seems like there's so many more options with the Onkyo. That said, I have seen A LOT of negative reviews on the 616, The 717 is a lot better from what I'm seeing ...
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post #5 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jguinn2005 View Post

Well after looking at the Denon 1913 I like the specs but it seems a bit on the high price side for what you get. Just seems like there's so many more options with the Onkyo. That said, I have seen A LOT of negative reviews on the 616, The 717 is a lot better from what I'm seeing ...

yeah, onkyo is known for packing a ton of features in at lower price points traditionally then other manufactures, but in the case of current line of onkyos they dropped to the lowest level of audyssey room correction on all the entry and most mid level models (the 818 and higher have really good room correction packages). A good room eq package is important (at least to me) and I would not want to have an avr that did not apply its room correction to subwoofers. A good sounding sub can make or break a set up. Audyssey does have excellent eq packages that include sub eq capability starting with multi-eq and getting better from there. it is unfortunate that this year onkyo decided not to include it in the lower level avr's. Because of this I haven't really paid much attention to any of the onkyo units below the 818 this year. I am fairly sure that as long as the 717 or 616 has the features you desire at a price you want to pay that you will be happy with it, they do offer a ton of bells and whistles for the price.

Personally I would go with a denon with audussey multi-eq or multi-eq xt unless I was going to purchase the onkyo 818 or higher model onkyo.

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post #6 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jguinn2005 View Post

I looked at the monitors, but passed over them, I'll have to go back and actually listen to them. If they sound the same ... heck, why not. Save a few hundred. I wonder why they have the three lines spec'd so close together. Seems strange. Any idea?

I've heard great things about the subs you mentioned however I've never heard them. I supposed I really need to find a place I can listen to them. For me, I have to hear it before I buy. I know that may seem silly because acoustically it'll change in my room but I can get a decent idea if I can hear them side by side. Maybe I'll luck out and be able to hear a DSW along side them.

Now to the Onkyo ... out of all of this this was the one thing that was a, "I gotta have that." Few reasons - Experience, never had a problem and used them quite a bit. So sorta brand loyal on this part. Simplicity, for everything that the Onkyo does it is incredibly easy to use (for me at lease, albeit I've never really messed with anything else) and that's important because my wife wouldn't want to fool with the complexity... if she's not happy I don't get to buy a thing! BUT I'll have a look at the Denon and see what I come up with smile.gif

As far as I know you wont be able to hear the monitors series ii or the new ones in a store. they are pretty much only avialble from newegg or polk direct (and a few amazon sellers, but is suspect they are not authorized sellers so no warranty). I can tell you though that as far as i can tell the tsi's and monitor ii's sound identical to me. I demo'd a pair of tsi 500's along side my monitor 70's run off my older denon 1611 and I couldn't tell a difference. tsi's look nicer with the piano gloss finish, but the price of the 70s trumps looks in my book with all else being equal. Perhaps you could find someone local to you that has a set of monitors who would be willing to let you demo them....I know i would..if you are any where near the CA SF bay area shoot me a private message and you can hear mine.

Same for the subs i mentioned, they are internet direct only. they all have (i think) a 30 day or so in home trial period.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #7 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as I know you wont be able to hear the monitors series ii or the new ones in a store. they are pretty much only avialble from newegg or polk direct (and a few amazon sellers, but is suspect they are not authorized sellers so no warranty). I can tell you though that as far as i can tell the tsi's and monitor ii's sound identical to me. I demo'd a pair of tsi 500's along side my monitor 70's run off my older denon 1611 and I couldn't tell a difference. tsi's look nicer with the piano gloss finish, but the price of the 70s trumps looks in my book with all else being equal. Perhaps you could find someone local to you that has a set of monitors who would be willing to let you demo them....I know i would..if you are any where near the CA SF bay area shoot me a private message and you can hear mine.
Same for the subs i mentioned, they are internet direct only. they all have (i think) a 30 day or so in home trial period.

I'll shoot you a PM, as long as we can split airfare from Virginia! biggrin.gif

I'm looking at the Denons... Honestly they'll do what I need and I came here for advice. Between the advice and everything I've read the Denons are the better quality AVR. I did a model comparison between the 1913 and the 2113CI. From what I'm seeing I'm leaning ever so slightly to the 2113CI. There are just a couple of extra features on there I might like to have but that's still up for debate. Any input on the 2113CI over the 1913?
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post #8 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 05:01 AM
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If you haven't already, check the denon xx13 thread. the first page or so will tell you everything you wanna know about the current denons.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #9 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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If you haven't already, check the denon xx13 thread. the first page or so will tell you everything you wanna know about the current denons.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100

Cool Thanks!
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post #10 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Well its official. Replacing the Onkyo with the Denon on the wish list!

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post #11 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I went to the store and listened to the RTiA7s while I was there. That was a mistake LOL. I'd love to have them but unfortunately I don't think the AVR that I want has enough to push them to what they're worth and I don't see myself buying amps anytime soon. Space also becomes and option with these... SO back to the TSI or monitor debate for me! The local store is running a special right now though, purchase $500 or more in pulk speakers and get 300 off a polk sub of your choice. If I go with the Polk 550wi after you add everything up it ends up being a few bucks more than buying used off of amazon for everything, even if I buy the monitors. So, not a bad deal if I decide to go with the TSi series.

I suspect I'm going to end up with cluster headaches if I think about this much more biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jguinn2005 View Post

Well I went to the store and listened to the RTiA7s while I was there. That was a mistake LOL. I'd love to have them but unfortunately I don't think the AVR that I want has enough to push them to what they're worth and I don't see myself buying amps anytime soon. Space also becomes and option with these... SO back to the TSI or monitor debate for me! The local store is running a special right now though, purchase $500 or more in pulk speakers and get 300 off a polk sub of your choice. If I go with the Polk 550wi after you add everything up it ends up being a few bucks more than buying used off of amazon for everything, even if I buy the monitors. So, not a bad deal if I decide to go with the TSi series.
I suspect I'm going to end up with cluster headaches if I think about this much more biggrin.gif

Bah, thats a bunch of BS. An AVR will do just fine driving these when crossed at 80hz. The lower 2 woofers only play up to 120hz to begin with, so this speaker honestly isnt the greatest choice for a typical HT crossed at 80hz. The RTi A5 would be a smart choice. The RTi series is in another league compared to the lower level polks, if you can swing the budget of 1150 for a pair of A5's and an A6 center (you can cheap out on the surrounds) it will be well worth it.

edit: If anything you can just buy the older generation RTi's off Polk Direct for a large savings.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EA-RTi8-BLACK-Floorstanding-Tower-Speaker-Polk-Audio-/230882604738?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item35c1acf6c2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CSi5-BLACK-Center-Channel-Polk-Audio-RTi-Series-Speaker-/360504632120?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53efc02338

$625 for the LCR

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-RTi4-Cherry-Bookshelf-Speakers-Polk-Audio-/360504604578?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53efbfb7a2

Surrounds bringing you up to $775

Denon 1913 for $350

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1913/DENON-AVR-1913-7.1ch-Home-Theater-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-ready/1.html

Now you're at $1125, with a healthy budget left for a sub. I know you're sold on the Polk sub, but trust me, it's not going to do justice to your setup. You need to go internet direct for a real sub in this price range.

Outlaw EX $750 shipped

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html

So for under $2k you would greatly exceed the TSi setup, and if you went with the new RTi A5 and CSi A6 you would still be under $2.5k


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post #13 of 61 Old 12-04-2012, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Bah, thats a bunch of BS. An AVR will do just fine driving these when crossed at 80hz. The lower 2 woofers only play up to 120hz to begin with, so this speaker honestly isnt the greatest choice for a typical HT crossed at 80hz. The RTi A5 would be a smart choice. The RTi series is in another league compared to the lower level polks, if you can swing the budget of 1150 for a pair of A5's and an A6 center (you can cheap out on the surrounds) it will be well worth it.
edit: If anything you can just buy the older generation RTi's off Polk Direct for a large savings.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EA-RTi8-BLACK-Floorstanding-Tower-Speaker-Polk-Audio-/230882604738?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item35c1acf6c2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CSi5-BLACK-Center-Channel-Polk-Audio-RTi-Series-Speaker-/360504632120?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53efc02338
$625 for the LCR
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-RTi4-Cherry-Bookshelf-Speakers-Polk-Audio-/360504604578?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53efbfb7a2
Surrounds bringing you up to $775
Denon 1913 for $350
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1913/DENON-AVR-1913-7.1ch-Home-Theater-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-ready/1.html
Now you're at $1125, with a healthy budget left for a sub. I know you're sold on the Polk sub, but trust me, it's not going to do justice to your setup. You need to go internet direct for a real sub in this price range.
Outlaw EX $750 shipped
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html
So for under $2k you would greatly exceed the TSi setup, and if you went with the new RTi A5 and CSi A6 you would still be under $2.5k

Thanks for the info there. I'm in a tug of war with myself over this if you can't tell smile.gif With respect to my budget the one thing that I haven't mentioned, and probably should have, is that my budget of $2500 is an upfront budget. If I got a little bit at a time, which I am not opposed to at all, then i can spend more. So that said, I may spring for the RTi series all the way around starting off with my two mains and center channel. And let me make sure I understand what you're saying ... the A5 would be a better choice than the A7 because of the 2 lower woofers? If that's the case it will make purchasing the RTi series a little easier since I'm looking at a lower price for the A5 ... or the older model.

As for the sub I'm not completely sold, just liked the way it sounded and haven't heard much else. If I go the route of a little bit a time I can certainly spring for a better sub and as someone else said if they offer an in home trial then that is even better. Thanks again!
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post #14 of 61 Old 12-05-2012, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha! Well my debate didn't take long after I started crunching numbers and comparing specs. For someone working on a budget that wants to get the most bang for the buck this really seems like a no brainer, Thanks Jay!

After looking everything over I certainly don't mind going through Polk Direct for a set of speakers. The savings is unreal and compared to new ... the difference that I can see is cosmetic only, maybe a really small change in spec here or there between models but not enough to justify spending more money.

One thing that I would like to do because of some of the things that I stated in my first post is to get 4 RTi8s (2 mains and 2 rear surrounds). Mounting in the rear will be a bear for me due to the fact that I rent and there's no room on the bookshelf (pun). If I can just put a speaker on the floor that would work for me.

So now I've got the following on the list
AVR: Denon 1913 or 2113ci (not sure yet, still looking at that)
Mains: RTi8s
Center: CSi5
Surround: RTi8s
Sub: Outlaw EX (I'll spend the extra money here if I'm saving everywhere else)

All this for WAY under my budget.
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No problem. You can always place bookshelf speakers on stands for surrounds. Subs like the EX make a huge difference for HT. Hitting 20Hz with authority takes things to the next level, the Polk subs are lucky to reach 30Hz.


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Ha! Well my debate didn't take long after I started crunching numbers and comparing specs. For someone working on a budget that wants to get the most bang for the buck this really seems like a no brainer, Thanks Jay!

After looking everything over I certainly don't mind going through Polk Direct for a set of speakers. The savings is unreal and compared to new ... the difference that I can see is cosmetic only, maybe a really small change in spec here or there between models but not enough to justify spending more money.

One thing that I would like to do because of some of the things that I stated in my first post is to get 4 RTi8s (2 mains and 2 rear surrounds). Mounting in the rear will be a bear for me due to the fact that I rent and there's no room on the bookshelf (pun). If I can just put a speaker on the floor that would work for me.

So now I've got the following on the list
AVR: Denon 1913 or 2113ci (not sure yet, still looking at that)
Mains: RTi8s
Center: CSi5
Surround: RTi8s
Sub: Outlaw EX (I'll spend the extra money here if I'm saving everywhere else)

All this for WAY under my budget.


Looks great and head and shoulders above the gear you originally posted! That sub is a great choice.

One thing is for sure, you will have a great time setting it all up and tweaking it to your preferences. Keep us posted on how it goes and I'm glad we were able to help.


Also, I was rereading some of my posts in this thread, and I wanted to clarify that I am not necessarily anti onkyo. I own an 809 and love it. I am just disappointed in them for removing all but the lowest level of audyssey from there entry/mid level avr's.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #17 of 61 Old 12-05-2012, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks great and head and shoulders above the gear you originally posted! That sub is a great choice.
One thing is for sure, you will have a great time setting it all up and tweaking it to your preferences. Keep us posted on how it goes and I'm glad we were able to help.
Also, I was rereading some of my posts in this thread, and I wanted to clarify that I am not necessarily anti onkyo. I own an 809 and love it. I am just disappointed in them for removing all but the lowest level of audyssey from there entry/mid level avr's.

I certainly contemplated the bookshelf/stand idea but i have 2 cats and a German Shepherd, I don't think they would stay on the stands very long. Plus, after I buy the speakers and then the stands I'm almost at a set of towers.

As for the Onkyo, I've always loved them myself but after the great reviews here about the Denons tied with the poor reviews of the problem child 616 elsewhere on the internet I think I'm safe spending a hair more on the Denon and calling it good. Thanks again! I'll be sure to post what I come up with and take a picture or two. As they say, if there aren't pictures it didn't happen! I should be able to get this rolling within the next month or so since its under my up front budget.
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post #18 of 61 Old 12-05-2012, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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What would your opinion be on the 2113ci vs the 1913? There are a few extra features and if I get it from the site you listed its only $50 more. Worth it or no?

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR2113CI/DENON-AVR-2113CI-7.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-Ready/1.html
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For a $50 difference might as well if it's within your budget.


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Well, the wife said I can pull the trigger on this purchase so come next week I'll be ordering all sorts of stuff ... Minus the sub for now. GOING to be getting the sub, just want to hold back a little in case I run into a problem, don't want to blow the budget all at once.

This is probably a silly question but would it be worth bi-amping the RTi8s? And if I do that do I simply connect the rear surrounds to the surround terminals? Sorta confusing to me to look at, I would thing that I should connect the rear surround to the rear surround terminals. But I suppose if I choose 5.1 in the set up of the AVR with or without a bi-amp the AVR will redirect the proper audio to the rear channels rather than the rear surround as with 7.1.
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post #21 of 61 Old 12-05-2012, 06:47 PM
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No reason to biamp IMO. Good luck with the setup!


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post #22 of 61 Old 12-08-2012, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone happen to know how many amps the Outlaw LFM-1 EX draws? I can find the specs for everything else but that. Started to think about my circuit, its only rated for 15 amps. There's not much else on it, a coffee table lamp and a phone charger.
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post #23 of 61 Old 12-08-2012, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Never mind, i was finally able to find it in a picture. 3.15 amps. Looks like I'll be pushing ~10-11amps with EVERYTHING on and on full blast ... which thankfully is not how I plan on listening to it wink.gif
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post #24 of 61 Old 12-09-2012, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I ordered 4 RTi8's and 1 CSi5 from polk audio direct. I'm holding out on the sub from outlaw in hopes I can snag a b-stock item and save $150 (free shipping plus a $60 reduction in the overall cost). I imagine that there will be a few available after the holidays! I'm also holding off on a logitech remote (I can deal with multiple remotes for the time being) and a new stand, I'm going to try and get the one I have to work.

The Denon 2113ci that I was going to get from accessories4less went up $50. I'm going to give them a call in the morning and see if they can sell it for less than that. They'll probably say no, but its worth a shot.

If I can snag the sub for $590 and get the AVR for an even $400 I'll be right at 2K for everything. Pretty sweet deal if I do say so myself!
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post #25 of 61 Old 12-09-2012, 10:21 PM
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Cool. Let us know how it works. If possible, until you add a sub you should have your speakers set to small with a 40hz x-over to protect them from receiving bass below their tuning point and possible damaging them.


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post #26 of 61 Old 12-09-2012, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Cool. Let us know how it works. If possible, until you add a sub you should have your speakers set to small with a 40hz x-over to protect them from receiving bass below their tuning point and possible damaging them.

That brings up a good question. When I add a sub is it better to have them set to small anyway or set them to large? OR does the audyssey take care of all those settings for you?
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post #27 of 61 Old 12-09-2012, 11:42 PM
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You generally want everything set to small at 80Hz as a start, you can tweak from that point.


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post #28 of 61 Old 12-12-2012, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Received the receiver ... sounds redundant ... unfortunately I have to work tonight so I can't hook it up to the existing speakers just yet. But just to function test it I decided I would bring it to work, heh. I grabbed one of my old sony satellite speakers and cut a small length of speaker wire. Got to work, put it on my desk and tuned up a radio station aaaaaaaaand it works! Of course, that isn't a complete function test, but its a step in the right direction with it being a refurb unit. I'll be able to set it up with my current speakers and components in the morning and see how she works. I'm stoked!

The CSi5 center channel is due to arrive Friday and the RTi8s due to arrive sometime next week. Can't wait! Still waiting on that Sub to show up in B-Stock with outlaw.
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post #29 of 61 Old 12-13-2012, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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The sub looks to be closer in my future than I originally thought ... may not wait for B-Stock but we shall see. Based on what I know about my room with the system (POS) I have now I imagine that the sub will be best served somewhere behind the listening position. Up front it just sounds muddy. Anyhow that said, I'll have a really difficult time running a coax sub cable in the same manor I did my speaker wire. Anyone used the OAW3 transmitter and receiver by Outlaw? I've seen a few reviews on it but nothing definitive. It appears better than some others out there.

Let me tell you ... it is ABSOLUTELY killing me to have my new receiver on the rack and not able to use it frown.gif I can't even hook it up to the speakers that I have right now. Ugh, oh well. Looking at Monday or Tuesday at the latest and my waiting will be over! smile.gif
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post #30 of 61 Old 12-14-2012, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Got the center channel today, its a monster but looks sweet on the stand. Question, will it hurt to hook it up to my current old HTIB AVR optimized for 4ohm speakers to the CSi5? I know I don't want to hook up my new receiver to the cheap speakers, just wonder if there is something to be worried about the other way around. I would like to test her out and see how she works.

(I did hook up one of the 4ohm speakers to the new AVR just to make sure it worked, turned it up just above a whisper and shut it down ... geez, I can't wait LOL! Tuesday get here already!)
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