Is there a difference between Bookshelf and floorstanders? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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The question being if your system has a quality subwoofer...and the speakers are comparable i.e. Reference Klipsh rf61 vs rb61. will there be an output difference? Will the sound quality be different?

I am looking to reduce floor space (to add a second pb12) and would like to wallmount some bookshelf speakers, but not if it is at the expense of tonal quality. Can anyone help me with this?

thanks!

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post #2 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 06:27 AM
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How big is your room?

How loud (peak SPL, avg SPL) do you usually listen?

If your room isn't very large and you don't listen really loud, then you most likely won't hear any difference especially if the monitor speakers are also efficient. The RB-61 is more sensitive (95dB/2.83V/m) than most big tower speakers.
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post #3 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 06:29 AM
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The main advantage to floorstanders is the increased low frequency extension that they can offer compared to bookshelves. If the lows are handled by subs there's no reason to get extended lows out of the mains.

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post #4 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the replies guys!

Currently I have rf3ii's for mains they are pretty efficient.

My room is 13x17x8 but is an open floorplan into the dining room and kitchen. I currently have the crossoever at 80hz for these with the PB12

I listen to movies at around -10dbs. and music a little lower (I am 90%movies/ 10%music)

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post #5 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 06:52 AM
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^^^

to be honest... when i did my last speaker upgrade, i wanted bookshelves... easier to place, i didn't need low end extension since i'm crossing to a capable sub (as everyone should be anyway), and so on...

if i had my way, that is the direction i would have gone... but my wife INSISTED upon towers... she wanted "big speakers" again... ergo, that is what i bought...

if i was in the situation that you are, i'd go for high efficiency bookshelves and the biggest baddest subwoofers i could afford...

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post #6 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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ok I am very close to doing this (buying the RB-61ii) they are 349$ for a pair. I currently have the RC3ii for a center. I am possibly selling my RF3ii floorstanders for 500$

looking for a few more opinions thanks!

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post #7 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

ok I am very close to doing this (buying the RB-61ii) they are 349$ for a pair. I currently have the RC3ii for a center. I am possibly selling my RF3ii floorstanders for 500$
looking for a few more opinions thanks!

I concur with everyone here, and of course I am the same as you. I have bookshelf speakers and have two PB12 Pluses. I love how well the speakers sound, and I love how well my SVS feel when watching movies.

I think the link still works to how I have my bookshelf speakers on a shelf. I just moved them down about 8in, so that the front three would line up for a better front stage.
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post #8 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

The question being if your system has a quality subwoofer...and the speakers are comparable i.e. Reference Klipsh rf61 vs rb61. will there be an output difference? Will the sound quality be different?
I am looking to reduce floor space (to add a second pb12) and would like to wallmount some bookshelf speakers, but not if it is at the expense of tonal quality. Can anyone help me with this?
thanks!
The sound compromise may have more to do with wall-mounting than the size of the speaker, although it may work out just fine.

Sometimes, a floorstander version of a bookshelf speaker gains in upper bass (not mentioned before) and well as low end extension (as mentioned). This is the case comparing the Klipschorn (floorstander) to the Klipsch La Scala (bookshelf, albeit a large one).

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post #9 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

The sound compromise may have more to do with wall-mounting than the size of the speaker, although it may work out just fine.
Sometimes, a floorstander version of a bookshelf speaker gains in upper bass (not mentioned before) and well as low end extension (as mentioned). This is the case comparing the Klipschorn (floorstander) to the Klipsch La Scala (bookshelf, albeit a large one).

Hi, thanks for the reply, can you clarify a bit more for me. I would be using a wall mount system so they can be angled exactly how I need them, otherwise I could build a wall mounted shelf and just toe them in. these have a front firing port so the wall shouldn't be a problem. What sound implications would wall mounting them have?

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post #10 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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Some speakers need room and interact badly place too close to walls, which occurs when mounting them on a wall. Visit a high-end speaker store and they will likely have 3 feet or more of free space behind the speaker. This may or may not be an issue, depending on the speaker. Certainly the obvious is to avoid any speakers with port holes on the back, but you already knew that from your reply above. I wouldn't worry too much about it, specially if you can aim the speaker. Life is full of compromises!

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post #11 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 11:26 AM
 
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will, bookshelves will make women happy. smile.gif
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post #12 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

will, bookshelves will make women happy. smile.gif

thats part of it...but by making her happy and clearing floorspace, I am pretty certain I can add another sb12 to the mix as my compromise smile.gif

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post #13 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 05:32 PM
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Floor standers are usually taller.

No. There's no inherent advantage. It's easier to design floor-speakers to go lower; but as long as you can cover your crossover point, you are fine.

For the issue with mounting on walls: look up "baffle step"
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post #14 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

ok I am very close to doing this (buying the RB-61ii) they are 349$ for a pair. I currently have the RC3ii for a center. I am possibly selling my RF3ii floorstanders for 500$
looking for a few more opinions thanks!

Where did you find this deal?! Cheapest I can find them is $400.
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post #15 of 25 Old 12-10-2012, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Cherry only on amazon

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post #16 of 25 Old 02-03-2013, 09:37 AM
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Guyes, I want to join in with the same question but for my space.

Help me choose which way to go - the floor standers or the bookshelves.

My room is about 23 feet long and 11 feet wide. It has an open entrance (no door) on one of the long walls where the rest of the long wall is about 11 feet and it is where the HT system is. Accross is the sofa. I can give the speakers arround 2 feet behind, but the right channel will be 1-2 feet to the wall, while the left challel will have no outer side restrictions.

Here is the floor plan. Any sugestions? I will be watching movies and listening to music but any of these - not in high volumes. Currently am wanderring between KEF's Q300 and Q500.

Thanks.
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post #17 of 25 Old 02-03-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Sometimes, a floorstander version of a bookshelf speaker gains in upper bass (not mentioned before) and well as low end extension (as mentioned). This is the case comparing the Klipschorn (floorstander) to the Klipsch La Scala (bookshelf, albeit a large one).
Not a very good comparison that one is. What makes a KHorn a KHorn is the corner placement.
Quote:
Visit a high-end speaker store and they will likely have 3 feet or more of free space behind the speaker.
That's not necessarily a good thing. If the speaker has BSC it was designed to be placed away from the wall. If not it should be placed close to the wall. IME most retailers have no clue what BSC is. And if it's a full range speaker with BSC there is a zone where you do not want to place the speaker, that being with the baffle between 2.5 and 8 feet from the wall. Doing so will result in a refection null in the bass.
Quote:
Help me choose which way to go - the floor standers or the bookshelves
Back to square one we are. Do you plan on running subs? If so there's no advantage to a floorstander. If not you need a floorstander, or a large bookshelf, to have good lows.
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post #18 of 25 Old 02-04-2013, 02:20 PM
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So Bill, in your opinion a small speaker + sub ticks all the boxes? As I wrote above, I believe that larger speakers also gain in more slam in upper bass and that makes a difference. I use large speakers AND a sub.

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post #19 of 25 Old 02-04-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

So Bill, in your opinion a small speaker + sub ticks all the boxes? As I wrote above, I believe that larger speakers also gain in more slam in upper bass and that makes a difference. I use large speakers AND a sub.
There's no reason why you can't use larger speakers/drivers for higher output. But if you use a speaker optimally designed to run to 40Hz and cross it over at 80Hz to use it with a sub it's not going to work nearly as well as a speaker designed to work optimally above 80Hz.

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post #20 of 25 Old 02-04-2013, 02:40 PM
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I have a tower and a bookshelf from the same brand and I can tell that the tower not only produce more bass but also divide frequencies between each driver.Imho they are not there for bass only.


also the mid range driver is more free of distortion on the tower.
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post #21 of 25 Old 02-04-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

I have a tower and a bookshelf from the same brand and I can tell that the tower not only produce more bass but also divide frequencies between each driver.Imho they are not there for bass only.


also the mid range driver is more free of distortion on the tower.

+1

Yes I've gone from a single woofer bookshelf to a dual woofer MTM to a 3 way tower from the same brand and each step was an improvement even having each X'd at 80hrz. The tower having a dedicated midrange driver really improved the sound. I believe the midrange is crossed over at 200hrz and is in a small sealed enclosure and then the 3 bottom woofers only need to cover 60hrz to 200hrz. Gives me much more headroom in the midrange and midbass, plus lower distortion than having a single driver trying to cover a much wider freq range and trying to get it to output the same as a tower.

Granted not all towers are and improvement in all areas but some really are and improvement overall compared to bookshelf offerings.
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post #22 of 25 Old 02-04-2013, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I ended up grabbing the image b6 bookshelfs. Would I notice a huge improvement in sound if I grabbed the t6 in the future?

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post #23 of 25 Old 02-17-2013, 07:57 AM
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Bill Fitzmaurice, what you say is interesting, thanks.

Quote:
"That's not necessarily a good thing. If the speaker has BSC it was designed to be placed away from the wall. If not it should be placed close to the wall. IME most retailers have no clue what BSC is. And if it's a full range speaker with BSC there is a zone where you do not want to place the speaker, that being with the baffle between 2.5 and 8 feet from the wall. Doing so will result in a refection null in the bass."

Actually, I am also worried, even more, about distance to side walls. In my room, I can give 1-2 feet to the side wall for the right channel, while I do not have such limitation for the left channel. With such a limitation for only one of the channels, is there difference whether it will be a bookshelf or floorstander, or it is a mater of speaker design?


Quote:
"Back to square one we are. Do you plan on running subs? If so there's no advantage to a floorstander. If not you need a floorstander, or a large bookshelf, to have good lows."

As for subs - I do not plan to invest a lot in a sub. I mostly care for two channel music listenning, while multichannel sound for movies is not of great importance to me.
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post #24 of 25 Old 02-17-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalukru View Post

Actually, I am also worried, even more, about distance to side walls. In my room, I can give 1-2 feet to the side wall for the right channel, while I do not have such limitation for the left channel. With such a limitation for only one of the channels, is there difference whether it will be a bookshelf or floorstander, or it is a mater of speaker design?

The issues is frequency response range, not speaker height.
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post #25 of 25 Old 02-17-2013, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
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As for subs - I do not plan to invest a lot in a sub. I mostly care for two channel music listenning, while multichannel sound for movies is not of great importance to me.
That still doesn't rule out bookshelves and subs versus floorstander. The physics of how sound works dictate that the best room placement for sources that work below 80-100Hz seldom coincides with where the best placement is for sources that operate above 80-100Hz. The main difference between a sub that's fine for music as opposed to one that's killer with HT is that the music only sub doesn't need to go as low, by about an octave. That makes the size and cost requirements for a sub for music considerably less than for HT. My personal preference is for bookshelves plus subs for both HT and music, as the placement options are much better than with floorstanders.
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