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post #31 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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well which 2.1 speaker system has the best measurements then? in any price range. and i never said price equals quality i dont know why everyone keeps reminding me of that like im a child. if i thought that i would buy the altec's. but from what i can tell wilson audio crafts the best performing speakers in the world. if they don't, tell me what speakers are the best.

i have also stated, numerous times, that i would like to ignore listener preference and environment in order to find which speakers are base line the best. i do not want to talk about things based on what kind of room i will be in or what kind of audio the listener prefers i dont care at all. base line. base line BASE LINE.

"IMO those 3 your listed wil probably all sound about the same and I would base my discision on long term reviews about how the speaker has held up to normal use and if it still works after a year or what ever time lenght"

only useful part of your entire response.

FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME NO MORE POSTS ABOUT LISTENER PREFERENCE OR ENVIRONMENT I DONT CARE AT ALL
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post #32 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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i dont get why there isnt a definitive answer, based solely on measurements and not opinion, which 2.1 speaker system performs the best. im talking in the world at this point not my three choices. wilson appears to make the best speakers (not 2.1) in the world but is that based on measurements or opinion? i want to know which are the best based on statistics because i hold no trust or faith for others opinions.
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post #33 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Vigneau View Post

there is nothing on their amazon links but surely there could be more data else where but i dont even bother looking cuz i wouldnt know how to interpret it.

I don't think it exists. But if it does and you find it: I'll be happy to help you interpret it.
Please note that incomplete information (such as on-axis performance without off-axis performance) can yield wrong results.
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i want to know which are the best based on statistics because i hold no trust or faith for others opinions.

Actually: You want to know based on objective criteria. Aggregated opinions of others *are* statistics.
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post #34 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:02 PM
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How many times does it have to be stated...to the best of a lot of the poster who were stupid enough to get involved in this thread, the systems you have listed have NOT been tested...so there ARE NO MEASUREMENT (at least not published).
Here is an idea...buy one, buy the proper testing equipment and test it your self. Then post the results. You will help the next guy not have to go through your frustration

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #35 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

I don't think it exists. But if it does and you find it: I'll be happy to help you interpret it.
Please note that incomplete information (such as on-axis performance without off-axis performance) can yield wrong results.

Actually: You want to know based on objective criteria. Aggregated opinions of others *are* statistics.

hey if anyone wants to know how to respond just look at what JerryLove does. It might not help me make a decision but he is honestly answering what i am asking and not just telling me that im thinking about it the wrong way. People continue to give me opinions despite the fact that that is not what im asking for. I think you're right, im not going to see the kind of data i want to for these three sets of speakers. but if i asked you which 2.1 system had the best "objective criteria" or best measurements would you be able to provide a definitive answer?
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post #36 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

How many times does it have to be stated...to the best of a lot of the poster who were stupid enough to get involved in this thread, the systems you have listed have NOT been tested...so there ARE NO MEASUREMENT (at least not published).
Here is an idea...buy one, buy the proper testing equipment and test it your self. Then post the results. You will help the next guy not have to go through your frustration

dude i have admitted over and over that there may or may not be the type of data required to make this kind of assessment. but that doesnt mean go and provide your opinion or tell me to buy them all as i have literally stated almost 10 times now that i do not want. "there aren't the types of measurements i would need to make this kind of assessment" is literally the only useful response at this point and i have now turned my attention to a new question. without price in mind at all what 2.1 system has the hands down best measurements.
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post #37 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Vigneau View Post

i dont get why there isnt a definitive answer, based solely on measurements and not opinion, which 2.1 speaker system performs the best. im talking in the world at this point not my three choices. wilson appears to make the best speakers (not 2.1) in the world but is that based on measurements or opinion? i want to know which are the best based on statistics because i hold no trust or faith for others opinions.

Here's the problem in answering your question in the definitive manner you're looking for (without getting too technical).

  • Not all speaker manufacturers, even some of the high end "audiophile" ones you may be familiar with, publish measurements.
  • Many of those that do don't publish enough or the right measurements to draw an an actual conclusion based on measurements available.
  • A good number of measurements that are published haven't stood up to independent analysis
  • Producing the set of measurements that would be comprehensive enough to become the sole decision point isn't cost practical for the speakers in your price range, so they generally don't exist.
  • Your personal preference may be for a speaker that isn't flat, particularly given your room and the impact it will have on audio reproduction.
  • My idea of what's best is only really relevant to me and the room that I would use the speakers in.

As others have suggested, price and name aren't good technical specs. If you went by measurements alone, Wilson would struggle to convince you to buy their products.

Have you considered headphones instead? The right $50 pair of cans will almost certainly have better SQ than your choices. Otherwise, flip a coin on the speakers on your list and then spend some quality time listening to higher end speakers for a potential future purchase.
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post #38 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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"Your personal preference may be for a speaker that isn't flat, particularly given your room and the impact it will have on audio reproduction."

I DONT CARE ABOUT PREFERENCE OR ENVIRONMENT FOR THE 40TH TIME

"As others have suggested, price and name aren't good technical specs. "

I ALREADY KNOW THIS AND HAVE STATED IT SEVERAL TIMES. WHY WOULD I EVEN HAVE POSTED THIS QUESTION I WOULD'VE JUST BOUGHT THE ALTEC'S

"Producing the set of measurements that would be comprehensive enough to become the sole decision point isn't cost practical for the speakers in your price range, so they generally don't exist."

I TURNED MY ATTENTION TO BEST IN THE WORLD AND STILL HAVE NOT RECIEVED A DEFINITIVE ANSWER FOR WHICH ARE THE BEST AND IM NOT TALKING ABOUT ONES IN MY PRICE RANGE IM TALKING BEST OVERALL

"Have you considered headphones instead?"

i have audiotechnica m50s and i enjoy them but im looking at speakers

Is anyone even reading before they post? i should not have to address the same things this many times
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post #39 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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The guy gave you an honest opinion and then followed it up with some good advice, whether you appreciate it or not.

This thread is becoming more about your rude and abrasive attitude and less about the speakers you're looking to purchase. IMO, the $50 would be better spent towards counseling, but YMMV.
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post #40 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:55 PM
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Can't say I didn't try. You got the "definitive answer" to your question - sorry it wasn't the one you want.

I'm done. I certainly won't be wasting any more time on you.
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post #41 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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his honest opinion was neither informative nor was it good advice because the things he said have been stated over and over again and they are addressing a question that i am not asking. idk how much more specific i possibly have to get. i wouldnt be rude or abrasive at all if people would read what i have been writing before just blindly posting what they want to say rather than what i want to hear.

i have turned my attention away from the 50 dollar speakers and i am now asking based on measurements alone what is the best 2.1 speaker system in the world because i realize that there is not sufficient information for these cheap speakers

i guarantee not a single post following this will answer the question i am asking and i will just continue to get frustrated. this thread is not becoming about my attitude its becoming about what other people want to show off about their knowledge of sound quality and frankly i dont care or appreciate it at all.
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post #42 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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dont reply saying that it cant be done or that i shouldnt be asking the question this way. only respond if you're going to answer me question. what 2.1 speaker system has the best measurement, frequency response, whatever in the entire market regardless of price range. without any opinion involved.
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post #43 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Can't say I didn't try. You got the "definitive answer" to your question - sorry it wasn't the one you want.
I'm done. I certainly won't be wasting any more time on you.

so you told me which 2.1 system has the best measurements in the world? i mustve missed it in your response what was the name?
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post #44 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:06 PM
 
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It's 50$. The genius gets positve reviews at several sites by users. It is a popular buy. There is no other info to go on. Buy the genius.

When I was at college all I worried about was pu**y and final exams. Get some perspective.

You are becoming the troll now..... careful.
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post #45 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Vigneau View Post

if what makes speakers the best is COMPLETELY based on opinion
It isn't. I can look at a sheet of data and know just what the speaker sounds like, just as one can look at sheet music and play a song that they've never heard before. But just as a non-musician can't make heads or tails of sheet music neither can someone with no engineering chops make heads or tails of a data sheet. And, while sheet music for almost every song ever written is readily available, the required data for loudspeaker analysis by and large is not.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #46 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hell Commute View Post

It's 50$. The genius gets positve reviews at several sites by users. It is a popular buy. There is no other info to go on. Buy the genius.
When I was at college all I worried about was pu**y and final exams. Get some perspective.
You are becoming the troll now..... careful.

its people like you that are turning me into a troll because you continue to post useless replies. i stated i was no longer talking about these three sets of speakers. i know there isnt other info. i can focus on more than two things at a time so where you say i lack perspective i say you lack drive.
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post #47 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It isn't. I can look at a sheet of data and know just what the speaker sounds like, just as one can look at sheet music and play a song that they've never heard before. But just as a non-musician can't make heads or tails of sheet music neither can someone with no engineering chops make heads or tails of a data sheet. And, while sheet music for almost every song ever written is readily available, the required data for loudspeaker analysis by and large is not.

i agree that's why i posed this question here for more experienced people to analyze. i was unware there was a such a lack of data for loudspeaker analysis. surely there must be a "best in the market 2.1 speaker system" though and no one has even suggested a list of things to consider, let alone a hands down best answer
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post #48 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:44 PM
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The answer to your ? about the best 2.1 system is exactly what you've stated you don't want... someone else's opinion. Good luck in your search.

What a long, strange trip its been....
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post #49 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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ok then my new questions is which 2.1 speaker system has the best specs and or measurements. that way no one can possibly tell me that it is up to opinion. is my question focused enough yet that people can actually work towards answering it?
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post #50 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 03:11 PM
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Dan: I am going to suggest you take it down a notch. No one is trolling your thread. You have to understand the audience at AVS....90% of the members here are home theater hobbyist...that doesn't mean that everyone is spending a 100k on the HT set up...but it does mean that most ppl are focused on the home theater enviroment vs desk top computer speakers.

The other thing to keep in mind is ppl are taking time out of their day (free time) to read what you written (and in most cases what others have written) and type in a response....a favor to you if you will. It may not be the answer you are looking for, but in most cases it's done from a pt of being helpful/providing information.

If it doesn't meet your needs, it doesn't meet your needs, but responding in a terse or negative manner is not appropriate.

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post #51 of 53 Old 12-13-2012, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I know that no one is trolling but no one is helping. I know it isn't for lack of trying but if people can't answer the question I'm asking then I would prefer they say nothing. If people were truly reading what ive written then they would not believe that their responses were helpful. While I am being provided with information it is not the information I am seeking if you read what I've written.
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post #52 of 53 Old 12-14-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Vigneau View Post

I know that no one is trolling but no one is helping. I know it isn't for lack of trying but if people can't answer the question I'm asking then I would prefer they say nothing. If people were truly reading what ive written then they would not believe that their responses were helpful. While I am being provided with information it is not the information I am seeking if you read what I've written.

If you start off with the assumption that "no one is obligated to respond" I think you'll view responses in a different light. You are relying on the kindness of strangers to take time out of their day to help. The sooner you remember that, that better you'll function in our community.

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post #53 of 53 Old 12-14-2012, 10:18 PM
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Danny - deep breath.... I can see why you are frustrated but you aren't getting anywhere like this either.

Ok, when it comes to judging speakers by the measurements and specs, you are fighting a couple things. One, published measurements
and specs for speakers are largely manipulated, biased, and sometimes just not true. the "spec sheet" is usually created by the marketing
department and not the engineers. When you get to the "pro" audio stuff is usually where this changes because the people buying this gear
rely on the specs for business reasons and aren't amused when the product doesn't work as advertised, and subsequently go elsewhere
for their future orders.

Two, even if the measurements were accurate, they don't define what the "best" speakers are. There are a lot of traits speakers can have that
rate differently to different people therefore making "best" just about impossible. Great bass important to you? The loudest? The smallest?

I hate car analogies. Here's one anyway. Road and Track test a Lexus vs. a BMW. There's a whole page of measurements. Say the BMW
is faster, corners at a higher load, and has a better braking distance. The Lexus has a bigger trunk, lower noise in the cabin, and better fuel
economy. Which car is better? I guess it depends on which measurements mean more to you.

As to your Wilson speakers example, you are getting into things like automotive type paint jobs, overkill construction and really expensive
parts weather they make an audible difference or not. Most of them don't have terribly good measurements but many people love them.
You want to use an honest yardstick on this business, and I don't blame you, but you just cant. The "answer" you want isn't available.

I realize this doesn't necessarily help you, I just want to show you why you're running into a wall here.

If you want some advice in the 50 dollar range, here's mine. Find a nice used set of Klipsch pro-media 2.1. They pump out bass and get
real loud without breaking up and hold up pretty well as long as you don't mangle the cable.
If it's got to be out of the three choices listed, use design instead of specs. Biggest woofer, biggest amp, most drivers. Avoid things like
down firing mid ranges. The less cute it looks,and the more it looks like a speaker, the better the chances are of it sounding good.
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