Need ideas for a speaker brand change!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-13-2012, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone!

As the title implies, i'm looking to change speaker brand because I feel I do not have the right match for my musical tastes.

My equipment is the following:

Pioneer elite sc 61 receiver ( class d3, so not bright sounding as a/b pioneers, so there's no mismatch on brightness with my Klipsch)

Klipsch rf62 fronts
Klipsch rc52 center
Kilpsch rs42 surrounds
Klipsch sw 110 b

Pioneer elite dv37 dvd player used as transport for cds, Pioneer elite n50 as streamer but also as DAC

Room is 12 x 11, apartment. budget would be maximum 2000 canadian dollars, for fronts.

I liked the Klipsch sound at first, since I'm mostly a black / death metal nut ( but I also like a lot of classic metal and progressive rock ) and since they are dynamic they impressed me at first. Never heard the drums with so much impact before, and so much cymbal emphasis struck me. I felt they were pretty much detailed, and it is most likely because of the strong highs produced by the horns... And the powerful bass amazed me too.

It's been a year and a half since I got them... Liked them and still like them, but they always had a little something that bugged me. I'm hearing a midrange problem here... People often think metal music as an extreme music that needs strong highs and extreme bass to be well rendered... But a lot of metal includes twin guitar melodies layed with keyboard textures, and with busy drums...And to me midrange is crucial for the overall feeling of the music.

Well, with Klipsch, I feel the midrange is blurry and laidback, and I feel it's because of the extreme nature of both inferior and superior frequencies. The mids don't have room to "breathe" When the music is on a slower pace, the problem is mitigated, probably because the lack of bass " agility?" is less prominent ... But when it speeds up or gets busier instrumentally, I feel they kind of lose it and get disorganized.

So, enough verbal torrent... The main strenght of the speakers I'm looking for is midrange clarity and detail. I also would not like to lose too much high frequencies, but since they are too extreme a little for my taste on klipsch, I probably could accept a more neutral speaker... Can afford to get less dominant bass, but still need powerful, and detailed bass.

My first thoughts are Monitor audio rx6, b&w 684 or 683... Could also go for a nice bookshelf, but unless I lose a little impact, would prefer a good ol' tower speaker... And I don't want to buy direct.

Your thoughts are pretty much appreciated, and have a nice day!

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post #2 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 06:49 AM
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B&W is a very good speaker brand, I have heard the 684's in person and i have to say they are a bit pricey for what you are getting, But still a brilliant speaker, You should also look into "paradigm" and ''tannoy mercury" well worth the money.
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 07:50 AM
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The sound you are describing is the way those Klipsch speakers sound to me too; not something I would want to listen to for very long.

B & W speakers, the 683 or 684, are certainly much better-sounding than what you have IMO, but my opinion is that they are not the best-sounding or the best for their price. PSB , Monitor Audio, and KEF make speakers that are better-sounding than B & W IMO and in most cases will even be slightly less expensive..

IMO one of the best-sounding speakers you can get for under $2000 are the PSB Image T6 speakers. Both Stereophile and The Absolute sound said that they were the best in this price range ($1300 per pair), and I had them for two years and agree with that. They are excellent speakers. I now have some more expensive speakers, but the Image T6 speakers are nonetheless excellent.

If that is more than you want to spend, I suggest that you look at the Monitor Audio and KEF speakers in this price range. All of their speakers will give you very good performance at a good price.

1) PSB Image T6-C4-B4 (check Saturday Audio for discounted new ones)

2) Monitor Audio Silver RX 6- Bronze BX Center-BX1

3) KEF C7-C6LCR- C1 (see KEF Direct)

I think that any of the above 3 systems will sound far superior to what you have. my personal choice would be the PSB speakers,, but they are all very good.

Also, your subwoofer would seem to be too small and underpowered for that type of music. I suggest the Klipsch RW12D for better bass.
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 07:50 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56xPMqZmejU

The infinity was preferred over much more expensive speakers.
Better yet is a used pro speaker.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-SR4732X-PA-Speaker-Cabinets-Pair-GREAT-CONDITION-w-covers-Hi-Mid-Cabinet-/300832440033?pt=US_Studio_Live_Equipment_Packages&hash=item460b02bee1

Or you want concert level playback
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-SP215-9-Speakers-/300831773082?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item460af8919a

The 2226 woofer and 2447 CD are awesome together. You would get the benefits of the Klipsch without the skreetchy horn sound.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 08:08 AM
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I can't imagine WHO would prefer them. IMO they are not good-sounding speakers.
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Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56xPMqZmejU
The infinity was preferred over much more expensive speakers.
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarghon View Post

Hello everyone!
As the title implies, i'm looking to change speaker brand because I feel I do not have the right match for my musical tastes.
My equipment is the following:
Pioneer elite sc 61 receiver ( class d3, so not bright sounding as a/b pioneers, so there's no mismatch on brightness with my Klipsch)
Klipsch rf62 fronts
Klipsch rc52 center
Kilpsch rs42 surrounds
Klipsch sw 110 b
Pioneer elite dv37 dvd player used as transport for cds, Pioneer elite n50 as streamer but also as DAC
Room is 12 x 11, apartment. budget would be maximum 2000 canadian dollars, for fronts.
I liked the Klipsch sound at first, since I'm mostly a black / death metal nut ( but I also like a lot of classic metal and progressive rock ) and since they are dynamic they impressed me at first. Never heard the drums with so much impact before, and so much cymbal emphasis struck me. I felt they were pretty much detailed, and it is most likely because of the strong highs produced by the horns... And the powerful bass amazed me too.
It's been a year and a half since I got them... Liked them and still like them, but they always had a little something that bugged me. I'm hearing a midrange problem here... People often think metal music as an extreme music that needs strong highs and extreme bass to be well rendered... But a lot of metal includes twin guitar melodies layed with keyboard textures, and with busy drums...And to me midrange is crucial for the overall feeling of the music.
Well, with Klipsch, I feel the midrange is blurry and laidback, and I feel it's because of the extreme nature of both inferior and superior frequencies. The mids don't have room to "breathe" When the music is on a slower pace, the problem is mitigated, probably because the lack of bass " agility?" is less prominent ... But when it speeds up or gets busier instrumentally, I feel they kind of lose it and get disorganized.
So, enough verbal torrent... The main strenght of the speakers I'm looking for is midrange clarity and detail. I also would not like to lose too much high frequencies, but since they are too extreme a little for my taste on klipsch, I probably could accept a more neutral speaker... Can afford to get less dominant bass, but still need powerful, and detailed bass.
My first thoughts are Monitor audio rx6, b&w 684 or 683... Could also go for a nice bookshelf, but unless I lose a little impact, would prefer a good ol' tower speaker... And I don't want to buy direct.
Your thoughts are pretty much appreciated, and have a nice day!

First, that is a pretty small room, which means a great potential for a lot of reflected sounds bouncing all around the room, especially when you crank it up. What kind of floors and walls do you have? So, I would first ask if you have treated the room at all? If not, you may be able to significantly improve your sound without buying new speakers.

Secondly, if you don't feel reflections are the problem and you want to proceed with new speakers, I would agree with most of the above mentioned brands, but my highest recommendation would be Dynaudio. The reason is that they are very dynamic, can rock pretty well, and at the same time throw a well defined soundstage. Perhaps something in your price range along these lines:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-dynaudio-focus-220-mk-ii-loudspeakers-2012-12-16-speakers-45891-van-wert-oh

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-dynaudio-excite-x36-floorstanders-rosewood-2012-12-13-speakers-95403

I realize these are fronts, but you can find centers and surrounds to go with them.

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post #7 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 08:43 AM
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I just got the MA RX8's not to long ago and I love em. I auditioned the B&W 683 and 684's before I got mine and I did not like them at all. I bought the RX8's without hearing them and hoped for the best and they were what I was looking for. Great bass to add.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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First, thanks to all who kindly took some of their time to give their input! Pretty much appreciated!

Commsysman : I'll consider the psb image towers, I had written them off because of some " thin bass" type of comments, and I've never heard them in person. Will give them a chance!

Hmm of course I'd like a bigger sub, but being in apartment, wouldn't it be a little overkill? If actually turn it down often because the bass sometimes thumps my chest in an agressive way hehe , especially when blasting brutal music!

Wrager : hehe I like concert level playback, but my neighbors do not biggrin.gif

Mtrot: Well, it might be fairly small, but unfortunately I cannot afford a dedicated room yet mad.gif So I'll have to do with it... The only room treatment I could do is heavy curtains on the left wall side door, and shag type rug to diminish reflections from a commercial grade short rug on concrete... Can't use panels either on side walls, because I have the sliding door glass on one side, and an open section to the kitchen on the left... Room far from ideal for perfect sound, But I do feel I can get a decent sound, since my klipsch don't sound too bad at all, just inherent reknown weaknesses from the speaker itself... And I did think about Dynaudio, but the only place selling them in town tried to rob me once, and I do not want giving them a single f'ing penny cool.gif But if I get a chance to get my hands on a used pair of these, I will give them a chance for sure... Heard that Dynaudio has a pretty defined bass and not too revealing of studio production imperfections... Which is a must since metal music is underground and not always well produced... Am I right about them?

Reef: Im drooling over MA rx6 and 8 hehe I MUSNT listen to my instincts and buy them straight away without listening to anything else !

Have a good day all!

Polk Audio LSIM703, Polk Audio LSIM704c, Energy Rc-70 surrounds, Energy rc-mini heights
Dual Reaction-Audio BPS212
Pioneer Elite sc-61 AVR
Pioneer Elite n50 network player
Marantz CD6004 cd player, Marantz UD5007 Blu ray player
Panasonic Tcl55dt60 led tv,Playstation 3 and a lot of old consoles
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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And jay : Paradigms monitors are brightly inclined as my klipsch are... Is it the same with studio series?

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post #10 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 04:44 PM
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With any tower speaker, the bass depends a LOT on placement relative to walls and the type of floor and floor coverings.

I found the Image T6 to be very clean and strong in the bass in my place, which has a wood floor with medium-thickness wall-to-wall carpeting, and I had them about 2 feet from the rear wall on the carpet-piercing spike feet supplied with them.

Many floorstanders have a "floor-effect" boominess in the mid-bass. If one was used to that, they might think the T6 had less bass, because they are specifically designed to avoid that "floor-effect" hump in the bass. Their response is very linear in most rooms.

The Stereophile review discusses that issue.
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm ok well to me good bass isn't necessarily earth rattling , so If the images have normal but clear bass, they will do the trick... And my Klipsches are about a feet away from the wall, the most I can afford unfortunately... Surely responsible for a part of the blurriness in my mids, eh?

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post #12 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 01:39 AM
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Studio series can be a bit bright on some types of music, but also depends on what amp/av reciver you are running them with. If i had to compare these speakers to klipsch RF-7 ii i would say they have more mid tone to them but the klipisch has much stronger and tighter bass as they use two 10" woofers. I still think the studio series are way better looking then the klipsch by far. It all depends on what you like, every speakers sounds different to every person.
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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yep Jay, agreed that every speaker sounds different to each person... My father's jaw is dropping each time when we listen to music, and I'm always complaining about weaknesses haha... Guess they are a good match for his ears, and not mine..

Don't know if the Klispch rf7 would do any better in the midrange, I think they would since they are an expensive kilpsch flagship speaker, but I do think I could get more refined sound for the price... and since I live in an apartment, it would make no sense buying a speaker that primary strenght is power and destructive bass ahah.. And for looks, paradigm studios obliterate the rf7ii for sure =D

Too bad that they are bright too mad.gif always liked canadian products!

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post #14 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 07:41 PM
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I am going to vote for the NHT Absolute Towers/TwoC Center.

I picked up the setup several weeks ago after debating between the Monitor 9, 11, Studio 60 and the PSB T6 setups. The midrange and highs are extremely well defined as I cross the bass off to my sub. Plus the gloss black looks awesome smile.gif Don't know why NHT doesn't get more love on the forums especially since they have free shipping both ways.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 07:49 PM
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I favor the Monitor Audio Silver RX-6, real good midrange and no harsh treble.
They can handle all types of music - and that tower has some nice bass.

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post #16 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Taje: Heard a lot of good things about NHT...But damn, what's wrong with those direct companies... Ok free shipping in USA, but everywhere else it's a nighmare... ANd I don't want to spend a lot on nshipping, because it means less money on the speakers... Sad thing, they look neat for sure.

Zieglj01: another vote in favor of the rx6... A couple of favorable feedbacks, and Open, wallet sesame...

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post #17 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 10:10 PM
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That tiny room is definitely part of your problem when you crank it up. I would look at some MTM designs, which will reduce the floor/ceiling effects.

Def Tech SM65

Atlantic Tech 4400 LR

RBH 661

Ascend 340

Arx A2

Emotiva XRT 6.2

Any of these should have no problem doing what you need as far as dynamics go.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-19-2012, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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MTM? Mid range -Tweeter -Midrange config? In what it would help dimisnihing reflections? Is it because of a better high frequencies integration?

thanks in advance

Polk Audio LSIM703, Polk Audio LSIM704c, Energy Rc-70 surrounds, Energy rc-mini heights
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post #19 of 19 Old 12-19-2012, 09:04 PM
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The dual mids create nulls (frequency cancellations) above and below the speaker, reducing the reflected energy in your room.
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