Micro speakers vs bookshelf vs towers - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
IHaveAMullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Hi Guys, extremely newb question here.

Assuming all three are paired with a sub:

What makes one choice better than the others? Is it simply that a larger driver will play lower? If the sub is placed properly this would be a moot point wouldn't it?

The reason I ask is that for room aesthetics I'm drawn towards the micro systems (Kef 5005.2, klipsch quintet, etc), but these alone only play down to ~100Hz while larger bookshelfs & towers will play down to 40Hz.

With a properly placed sub & crossover won't both options sound equally as good? Trying to wrap my head around why the towers are a better option for pure audiophiles.

Thanks!
IHaveAMullet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 01:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Dave1027's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
It's much harder to make micro speakers properly cover the ranges not covered by the sub such as the mid-bass. Often what you end up with is a thin sound with a pronounced bump on the bottom from the sub.

I like the compromise of the bookshelf that has a decent size woofer coupled with the sub.
Dave1027 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
IHaveAMullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1027 View Post

It's much harder to make micro speakers properly cover the ranges not covered by the sub such as the mid-bass. Often what you end up with is a thin sound with a pronounced bump on the bottom from the sub.

Ok that makes sense. So what is the difference between a bookshelf with a single 6.5" driver vs a tower with 3 - 6.5" drivers (for example)?
IHaveAMullet is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 02:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Dave1027's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHaveAMullet View Post

Ok that makes sense. So what is the difference between a bookshelf with a single 6.5" driver vs a tower with 3 - 6.5" drivers (for example)?
Bigger box usually means better bass. More woofers means more low frequency air can be moved.
Dave1027 is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 03:06 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,244
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHaveAMullet View Post

Ok that makes sense. So what is the difference between a bookshelf with a single 6.5" driver vs a tower with 3 - 6.5" drivers (for example)?
Read this post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426842/cross-over-freq-with-sat-sub#post_22354745

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 04:13 PM
Member
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
For me I'd ask the question differently.

For a home sized 2.1 system crossed at 80hz to a capable sub what is the smallest L/R speaker cabinet size beyond which moving to a larger size has diminishing results in system performance? What are the tradeoffs?
noisebeam is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 04:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JerryLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 76
A potential down-side of a large-drive 2-way design can be resolution near the crossover with the tweeter.

If we compare the Infinity P363 to the P163 to the P143 we find the following.

The P363 , though still needing a sub, is the best of all worlds (when looking at these 3 speakers).
The P143, using the same tweeter and midrange as the 363, requires an unfortunately high crossover with the sub (it's only rated to 100Hz).
The P163 brings the sub crossover point down where we'd like to see it (though obviously not as low as the 363), but sacrifices midrange clarity for this extension, because of the large size of the midrange cone.

In this case: the argument for the P363 is the best combination of midrange and sub-integration.
JerryLove is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 07:21 PM
Member
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

A potential down-side of a large-drive 2-way design can be resolution near the crossover with the tweeter.
If we compare the Infinity P363 to the P163 to the P143 we find the following.
The P363 , though still needing a sub, is the best of all worlds (when looking at these 3 speakers).
The P143, using the same tweeter and midrange as the 363, requires an unfortunately high crossover with the sub (it's only rated to 100Hz).
The P163 brings the sub crossover point down where we'd like to see it (though obviously not as low as the 363), but sacrifices midrange clarity for this extension, because of the large size of the midrange cone.
In this case: the argument for the P363 is the best combination of midrange and sub-integration.
Seems the P153 would fit nicely between too small 4" driver of the 143 and the too large 6" driver of the 163
noisebeam is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 07:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JerryLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Yes.

Though in the end: I'm a fan of the 163 out of the 1 series... but it's subjective.
JerryLove is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 07:56 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zieglj01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,318
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post

Seems the P153 would fit nicely between too small 4" driver of the 143 and the too large 6" driver of the 163

Are you sure about that?smile.gif

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PA-R200, Pioneer VSX-30
zieglj01 is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 08:07 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zieglj01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,318
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post

For me I'd ask the question differently.
For a home sized 2.1 system crossed at 80hz to a capable sub what is the smallest L/R speaker cabinet size beyond which moving to a larger size has diminishing results in system performance? What are the tradeoffs?
It is not just about a cabinet - it comes down to design and engineering as a whole.
I have a so-called small bookshelf speaker, that can crossover at 80 hz.

I have owned bookshelf speakers, with a bigger 5 1/4 and 6 inch woofer, that would
have trouble with that.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PA-R200, Pioneer VSX-30
zieglj01 is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 08:25 PM
Member
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

It is not just about a cabinet - it comes down to design and engineering as a whole.
I have a so-called small bookshelf speaker, that can crossover at 80 hz.
I have owned bookshelf speakers, with a bigger 5 1/4 and 6 inch woofer, that would
have trouble with that.
Of course, but there are limits, there is a too small.

What is this 'so called small bookshelf'?
noisebeam is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 08:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zieglj01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,318
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post

Of course, but there are limits, there is a too small.
What is this 'so called small bookshelf'?

Cambridge Audio S30

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PA-R200, Pioneer VSX-30
zieglj01 is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 12-17-2012, 08:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JerryLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

I have a so-called small bookshelf speaker, that can crossover at 80 hz.

You can cross a pair of Altec Lansing computer speakers at 80Hz as long as you keep the SPL low enough.

Given a driver surface, a driver technology (cone vs horn vs ribbon; closed vs ported vs TL, vs MWTL (and knowing box tuning)) frequency and SPL we can determine an X-Max. (given all but one you can determine the missing one).

As such: though a 1" driver can be vibrated at 20Hz, getting real SPL would require that it move linear feet to accomplish it.

So yes. A JL 10W7 will get lower, louder than say you average HK 10" because it has a higher excursion. And a Salk H2-TL will go lower than an H2 because of the MWTL boosting the low end. But there are still practical limits; and generally the drivers that will perform better at a given size also cost more.
JerryLove is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off