Tower speakers with 10'' woofers set to LARGE. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I ran my 5.1 system in small for every speakers. Today, some guys told me that my sub is not good enough because its a jamo 8'' 250 sub , and it does not match with my jamo s608 fronts. So i will be setting my fronts to large. What about the crossover in the receiver ? and what about the gain on the back of the sub ? Room is 4.3m x 4.6 meters.
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post #2 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post

I ran my 5.1 system in small for every speakers. Today, some guys told me that my sub is not good enough because its a jamo 8'' 250 sub , and it does not match with my jamo s608 fronts. So i will be setting my fronts to large. What about the crossover in the receiver ? and what about the gain on the back of the sub ? Room is 4.3m x 4.6 meters.

How could a Jamo sub NOT match up with Jamo fronts? I think the question is simply how much sub do you want? I suspect that the Jamo 8", even though it is not a huge sub, still offers more/better deep bass, and more LF impact than the 608s, which are only rated down to 37Hz. Have you experimented with trying different crossovers, such as 60Hz and 40Hz? I would suggest a 60Hz crossover to start. Also, be aware that if you set your fronts to Large, you will tax the power supply of your receiver/amp a lot more.

Now, I do like to set my front L/R speakers to large, but I have a separate amp to power them. And they are rated down to 22Hz. But given your current towers, if you really want deep bass, you will need to get a more substantial sub, with response down to ~20Hz.

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post #3 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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How could a Jamo sub NOT match up with Jamo fronts? I think the question is simply how much sub do you want? I suspect that the Jamo 8", even though it is not a huge sub, still offers more/better deep bass, and more LF impact than the 608s, which are only rated down to 37Hz. Have you experimented with trying different crossovers, such as 60Hz and 40Hz? I would suggest a 60Hz crossover to start. Also, be aware that if you set your fronts to Large, you will tax the power supply of your receiver/amp a lot more.
Now, I do like to set my front L/R speakers to large, but I have a separate amp to power them. And they are rated down to 22Hz. But given your current towers, if you really want deep bass, you will need to get a more substantial sub, with response down to ~20Hz.

I tried 60hz with fronts set to small but it seemed that the bass of the sub was not matching with the bass of the fronts. I think the problem is with my room/reflections. If i set everything to small, what sub volume gain do you suggest ? and 60 x over?
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post #4 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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How could a Jamo sub NOT match up with Jamo fronts? I think the question is simply how much sub do you want? I suspect that the Jamo 8", even though it is not a huge sub, still offers more/better deep bass, and more LF impact than the 608s, which are only rated down to 37Hz. Have you experimented with trying different crossovers, such as 60Hz and 40Hz? I would suggest a 60Hz crossover to start. Also, be aware that if you set your fronts to Large, you will tax the power supply of your receiver/amp a lot more.
Now, I do like to set my front L/R speakers to large, but I have a separate amp to power them. And they are rated down to 22Hz. But given your current towers, if you really want deep bass, you will need to get a more substantial sub, with response down to ~20Hz.
I just set my fronts to large today because i was getting alot of rumbling sound from the sub during some parts in movies. It maybe because of the reflections or because of the rooms size (4.3x4.6m )

Heres a picture i took



The sub is behind the Chrtismas tree and where you see the sofas is where i sit. About 2.4 meters away from the tv or a little less. I also move my sofa a little bit forward so that its not touching the back wall.
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post #5 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post

I tried 60hz with fronts set to small but it seemed that the bass of the sub was not matching with the bass of the fronts. I think the problem is with my room/reflections. If i set everything to small, what sub volume gain do you suggest ? and 60 x over?

Well, I think room nodes and nulls can be an issue with bass, but room reflections are not generally an issue with bass. Could you perhaps be setting the sub volume too high? I would just try to set the sub to sort of augment the bass of the towers just a bit. In what way was "the bass of the sub was not matching with the bass of the fronts"?

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post #6 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

How could a Jamo sub NOT match up with Jamo fronts? I think the question is simply how much sub do you want? I suspect that the Jamo 8", even though it is not a huge sub, still offers more/better deep bass, and more LF impact than the 608s, which are only rated down to 37Hz. Have you experimented with trying different crossovers, such as 60Hz and 40Hz? I would suggest a 60Hz crossover to start. Also, be aware that if you set your fronts to Large, you will tax the power supply of your receiver/amp a lot more.
Now, I do like to set my front L/R speakers to large, but I have a separate amp to power them. And they are rated down to 22Hz. But given your current towers, if you really want deep bass, you will need to get a more substantial sub, with response down to ~20Hz.

Here's another picture of the room/setup.

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post #7 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post

I just set my fronts to large today because i was getting alot of rumbling sound from the sub during some parts in movies. It maybe because of the reflections or because of the rooms size (4.3x4.6m )
Heres a picture i took

The sub is behind the Chrtismas tree and where you see the sofas is where i sit. About 2.4 meters away from the tv or a little less. I also move my sofa a little bit forward so that its not touching the back wall.

Yes, with the rumbling you are talking about, I still think you may be turning the sub too high. That sub will only do so much. But, it must be said, a lot of the bass in movies IS basically rumbling sounds!

Do you mean you are sitting on that sofa over to the far left of the picture? That position does not appear at all to be in front of your TV. Also, rooms can have boundary reinforcements of the bass, and over on that left wall, you may be getting a big bass boost. How does the sound seem to you if you are positioned about 8 feet directly in front of the TV?

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post #8 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, with the rumbling you are talking about, I still think you may be turning the sub too high. That sub will only do so much. But, it must be said, a lot of the bass in movies IS basically rumbling sounds!
Do you mean you are sitting on that sofa over to the far left of the picture? That position does not appear at all to be in front of your TV. Also, rooms can have boundary reinforcements of the bass, and over on that left wall, you may be getting a big bass boost. How does the sound seem to you if you are positioned about 8 feet directly in front of the TV?

No no , i sit exactly in the middle infront of the TV. In the photo , if i sit in the left , i get a bigger bass boost ! Exactly how you said. I know that most of the sound is rumbling during movies , but i wish to keep all the bass smooth . Should i set the gain on the back of the sub to 9 - 10 o'clock ?
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post #9 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:12 PM
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Well, all you can really do is experiment a lot with it and see how you like it best.

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post #10 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, all you can really do is experiment a lot with it and see how you like it best.

Thanks, will do tomorrow ! What about the phase ? 0 is good ?
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post #11 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:19 PM
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You are running your sub too high. You need a sound pressure level meter so that all of your speakers including the sub can be set to an equal reference level...all spkrs to be balanced for a good response at the listening area. I would start with all spkrs set to "small" and at 80HZ crossover, redirecting all bass below 80HZ to the sub. It would also be nice and handy for you to own a test disc. One that plays a frequency sweep from ultra low to high. By setting at 80HZ you are not going to miss anything. Your towers will do 80 and up, and this is a good thing.

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post #12 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post

You are running your sub too high. You need a sound pressure level meter so that all of your speakers including the sub can be set to an equal reference level...all spkrs to be balanced for a good response at the listening area. I would start with all spkrs set to "small" and at 80HZ crossover, redirecting all bass below 80HZ to the sub. It would also be nice and handy for you to own a test disc. One that plays a frequency sweep from ultra low to high. By setting at 80HZ you are not going to miss anything. Your towers will do 80 and up, and this is a good thing.

Thats exactly what i was doing. I used an spl meter to set all speakers exactly the same (using the receiver test tones) , but as for the sub, i was not getting the same volume as the speakers.I was getting about 15dB less than all my speakers.
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post #13 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:26 PM
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Thanks, will do tomorrow ! What about the phase ? 0 is good ?

If you are talking about the phase switch on the sub, play something with repetitive ample bass notes and switch back and forth. Keep it set to the one that sounds best..tight and punchy, not boomy or muddy sounding.

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post #14 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:31 PM
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What receiver do you have? Doesn't it have a calibration microphone?

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post #15 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post

If you are talking about the phase switch on the sub, play something with repetitive ample bass notes and switch back and forth. Keep it set to the one that sounds best..tight and punchy, not boomy or muddy sounding.

Will do !
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post #16 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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What receiver do you have? Doesn't it have a calibration microphone?
ONKYO TX-SR 308. No microphone and audyssey.
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post #17 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post

Thats exactly what i was doing. I used an spl meter to set all speakers exactly the same (using the receiver test tones) , but as for the sub, i was not getting the same volume as the speakers.I was getting about 15dB less than all my speakers.

Do you have the compensation figures for your SPL meter? If it's the Radio Shack, search for the thread here where they're listed.

SPL meters tend to read low for the sub - the compensation will let you figure out what the actual output level is. Also make sure you have your SPL meter set to "C" weighting.
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post #18 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have the compensation figures for your SPL meter? If it's the Radio Shack, search for the thread here where they're listed.
SPL meters tend to read low for the sub - the compensation will let you figure out what the actual output level is. Also make sure you have your SPL meter set to "C" weighting.
Im using the SPL meter app on my galaxy s3 android phone. Can you send me the thread please ?
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post #19 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 02:25 PM
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Im using the SPL meter app on my galaxy s3 android phone. Can you send me the thread please ?

Unfortunately, none of the phone apps on any platform are going to give you accurate readings on your sub. The microphones in current generation devices are built to pick up the human voice (sorry to state the obvious), but are entirely ineffective in the subwoofer region. I've tested a number of phones and none of them were within 20db for the sub - all read very low.

The phone can give you a somewhat reasonable reading for your speakers but really isn't good enough to be useful. I'd invest $50 or so on a Radio Shack SPL meter.
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post #20 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 02:58 PM
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How could a Jamo sub NOT match up with Jamo fronts? .
When it's one eight versus two tens. Subs must be considerably larger than the mains they're paired with, not smaller.

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post #21 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 03:07 PM
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When it's one eight versus two tens. Subs must be considerably larger than the mains they're paired with, not smaller.

True, but I wasn't sure in what respect he was saying they did not match up. I still think he could use the Jamo sub, but would have to not run it as loud as he is trying to.

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post #22 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 04:32 PM
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I still think he could use the Jamo sub, but would have to not run it as loud as he is trying to.
Of course he can use it, but if it cannot possibly add anything to what the mains already provide what's the point?

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post #23 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 04:41 PM
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Of course he can use it, but if it cannot possibly add anything to what the mains already provide what's the point?

Well, being that it is a purpose built subwoofer, one would think they designed it with enough excursion and wattage to be able to augment the towers. After all, the subwoofer is rated down to 30Hz, while the towers are only rated down to 37Hz. So, I don't think my logic is flawed. But, I am not saying that is any kind of a good sub.

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post #24 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 05:07 PM
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...folks, crossed over at 80HZ, your mains are still going to produce all of the glorious lows from 80HZ and up. Do we all know what an 80HZ tone sounds like?

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post #25 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 05:55 PM
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40HZ to 80HZ...the lowest frequencies of the low kick bass drum, for example is what the sub-woofer can produce, and why not let the sub accomplish this, and all of your other spkrs pick up everything above the 80HZ.

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post #26 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 07:20 PM
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Well, being that it is a purpose built subwoofer, one would think they designed it with enough excursion and wattage to be able to augment the towers.
Only if they found some magical way to avoid those pesky laws of physics. rolleyes.gif
You don't use 8 inch subs with 10 inch floorstanders; you use them with 5 inch bookshelves.

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post #27 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 07:46 PM
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Only if they found some magical way to avoid those pesky laws of physics. rolleyes.gif
Longer XMax.
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