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post #1741 of 1819 Old 03-28-2014, 12:51 AM
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Nice update audiosavant. I sold VPI tables back late 80's and have always wanted one as they are my favorite. ( I am clearaudio based now). IMO The Pens are just made for tube amps and I would love to hear them with some huge AR amps...
Wish all these theater guys could experience the Pendragons doing 2 channel via tube drive analog sourced music! Words just cannot explain....

Think you stated some time back you may upgrade your tube amps...What you using now?

Soundman, I bought a little DIY push/pull tube amp (8watt/channel). Nothing fancy, just cheap because I’m curious as to what tubes sound like. Finished soldering all components last night and will try it out the weekend as I have to travel till then. I’ll give my impressions once I’ve had a good listen. Currently powering the Pens with the Emotiva XPR-5. Should make for an interesting comparison.[/quote
_____________

Ha ha...A DYI, 8 WPC tube amp up against a 5 x 400 WPC Emotiva! Now thats a fair fight...Ill still put my money on the underdog when it comes to midrange sweetness. Do give the tubes and caps etc some time to burn in ( 50 to 100 hrs) and let us know but it will not move those woofers like that Emotiva. That tube amp will sound better just knowing you built it . Take a pic and post your new creation and have fun! Congrats on your venture to the dark side 2 ch tube world.
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post #1742 of 1819 Old 03-28-2014, 07:15 AM
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__________________________

I used the Auralex Sonolite 24" x 24" x3" bass traps in the top corners of the tall part of my ceiling. I used 4 ( 2 each side but one each side works fine) priced at $59.84 each on amazon. I posted a review on that site explaining the challenges of hanging them and what is needed to make it work. It is very easy to hang them.

FYI, my sound panels ( not Auralex) I purchased form Sam's club as they were just over $100 for 4 and the free shipping made it the best deal I could find.
I now do acoustic treatments professionally and use Auralex exclusively as the panels look incredible have beveled edges and thicker so it works better at low mid frequencies but they are 4x to 8 x the prices of the panels from Sam's. However, the Auralex bass traps @ $59 each are a must have IMO a good price.
Doing my net searches over the years I see speakers located on each side of an opening to another room with all that space between them makes for some good imaging if you do not need a TV between the Pens and your room will allow you may consider? I have never tried this but always wondered how well that would work? Just a thought as I know glass behind my drums always made them sound very funny but have never had glass behind speakers either so just thinking and wondering if your room would allow speakers on either side of an opening.
Thick draperies my help if the windows are an issue but as crazy as it sounds I did cover my windows with sound panels in my man cave / office but I do not have to deal with a WAF in that room.


I did a search on yore Red wine amp...that is a nice looking amp! Would love to give a listen!
Have Fun and keep us posted!
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post #1743 of 1819 Old 03-28-2014, 07:23 AM
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Hi Soundman
Thanks again for the input either side of the opening is something I had not considered !
Can I ask do you use the acoustic treatments because the Pens. Don't sound great without them or because it further enhances the quality sound already there?
Thanks again Hugh
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post #1744 of 1819 Old 03-28-2014, 05:00 PM
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What's a grill?
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post #1745 of 1819 Old 03-28-2014, 06:31 PM
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What's a grill?

It's what you cook your meat on. A lot of audiophiles also enjoy bar-b-que... smile.gif
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post #1746 of 1819 Old 03-28-2014, 06:35 PM
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Think you stated some time back you may upgrade your tube amps...What you using now?

For tubes I'm using a PrimaLuna Premium Integrated. I'm getting ready to do some tube rolling with a set of NOS Mullards. The stock tubes sound really good, I just wanna see what this baby can do.

For SS I use a Luxman 505u.

I also have a bit of a fetish for McIntosh amps and am looking around for a good deal on something used.
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post #1747 of 1819 Old 03-29-2014, 09:52 PM
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My first attempt at diy tube amps. ( yea, I know it’s not the fancier point to point wiring).At first listen I can hear that the mids are a lot smoother but I am noticing that the sound has changed a little after about 5hrs of periodic listening. The bottom end is not a strong as with the XPR-5 but that was expected. I’m quite surprised at what 8 watt can do.


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post #1748 of 1819 Old 03-29-2014, 10:27 PM
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Nice job on your tube amp! I have always had my eye on those and wondered how challenging they are to put together. The sound will smooth out and warm up after more break-in if like my little tube amps.
IMO it always take at least a few days to a week at a minimum to sound right and then a good 15 min warm up each time you listen.
If you get hooked on that warm tube sound, things will never be the same for you!

I have found one a trade off with even the big boy tube amps is the low end and high end roll off. IMO it is a trade off to sacrifice some highs and lows for mid range sweetness. It is all what you like but for me Norah Jones sounds lifeless on anything but a tube amp. That piano and female voice comes alive IMO with some tubes in the mix. However all tube amps are not equal...I have some I paid big money for that I sold off long ago as they did not satisfy but I have a $200 eBay find that is one of my best.

Thanks for posting a pic.
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post #1749 of 1819 Old 04-13-2014, 12:38 PM
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Having my Pendragons for awhile now, I decided for the first time to turn my subwoofers completely off and run the speakers in full range. I have ten foot ceilings and a large open floor plan. I was very impressed with the clean, tight and low bass the Pendragons produce. They really played well with low frequencies and were nondirectional. Just wanted to share;)
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post #1750 of 1819 Old 04-24-2014, 10:30 AM
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Hi Pendragon fans. I am a student at UVU and I am helping Tekton for one of my senior classes. I  have read through most of your posts before I took on the project and it's nice to see all of your feedback. From what I have read it seems like you guys really like the speakers you just run into a few issues:

 

- Response time from Tekton on questions and order status

- Possible miscommunication when it comes to estimated shipping address. 

- Improve the speaker grill issue.

 

Are there any other things you would like to see improved? I hope this is fine asking this here. I am a more beginner audiophile, but I am excited to talk audio stuff with you guys!

 

- Hamlet

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post #1751 of 1819 Old 04-24-2014, 02:47 PM
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Notice on any Tekton events would be sweet. Do they have a showroom or anything similar in the Provo/Orem area? I'd really enjoy having a look sometime, since it seems like they offer some great bang for the buck.

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post #1752 of 1819 Old 04-24-2014, 04:09 PM
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Thanks Amatuerholic! They currently do not have a showroom, but I think the idea is great. I think some well planned local listening events would be really good too. Sometimes Eric will let people listen to them in his home. Maybe I can arrange something for you. If you are interested PM me.

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post #1753 of 1819 Old 04-24-2014, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamletfg View Post

Hi Pendragon fans. I am a student at UVU and I am helping Tekton for one of my senior classes. I  have read through most of your posts before I took on the project and it's nice to see all of your feedback. From what I have read it seems like you guys really like the speakers you just run into a few issues:

- Response time from Tekton on questions and order status
- Possible miscommunication when it comes to estimated shipping address. 
- Improve the speaker grill issue.

Are there any other things you would like to see improved? I hope this is fine asking this here. I am a more beginner audiophile, but I am excited to talk audio stuff with you guys!

- Hamlet

Some Frequency Response graphs on the different models would be nice as seen on some other designers webpages, example:
http://www.salksound.com/songtower%20specifications.htm
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post #1754 of 1819 Old 04-24-2014, 11:44 PM
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Don't see the point of posting FR graphs. What would they reveal anyway? Would certainly color perceptions though. FR graphs are like measurements for college football players at the NFL combine: runs a 4.4 40, scores 28 on Wonderlic, has a "cannon" of an arm. What do those numbers and assessments mean? Do those measurements lead to meaningful predictability of future success at the NFL level?

The only thing people agree those measurements do result in is a lot of debate and controversy. Good on Eric for staying out of that nonsense.

I suspect his products do not aim to achieve the kind of sound that audiophile traditionalists would find necessarily pleasing. All the FR graphs would do is prejudice essentially the entire market against his speakers without having heard a single note being played through them.
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post #1755 of 1819 Old 04-25-2014, 05:15 AM
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The only thing people agree those measurements do result in is a lot of debate and controversy.
Said debate and controversy mostly being between those who know how to read charts and interpret what they mean, and those who do not. One guess as to which side believes that measurements are meaningless? rolleyes.gif
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post #1756 of 1819 Old 04-25-2014, 02:23 PM
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Thanks for the feedback nb67, realmensrea, and Bill Fitzmaurice. Awesome avatar by the way Bill! I will be happy to pass those along to Eric. Seems a little of a split on using the FR graphs. Let's say hypothetically we don't use them, what would you think would be a good alternative?

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post #1757 of 1819 Old 04-25-2014, 09:14 PM
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Don't see the point of posting FR graphs. What would they reveal anyway? Would certainly color perceptions though. FR graphs are like measurements for college football players at the NFL combine: runs a 4.4 40, scores 28 on Wonderlic, has a "cannon" of an arm. What do those numbers and assessments mean? Do those measurements lead to meaningful predictability of future success at the NFL level?

The only thing people agree those measurements do result in is a lot of debate and controversy. Good on Eric for staying out of that nonsense.

I suspect his products do not aim to achieve the kind of sound that audiophile traditionalists would find necessarily pleasing. All the FR graphs would do is prejudice essentially the entire market against his speakers without having heard a single note being played through them.

Your simply wrong. Your analogy is misplaced. The real analogy would be how does a 40 time of a track sprinter foretell there speed. The crowd that says fr graphs aren't important usually love Kimber cables and overpriced amps that have great bass extension and decay. Same crowd doesn't use anything but pure audio stereo with no eq. I'll stick to measurements over flowery language.
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post #1758 of 1819 Old 04-26-2014, 09:20 AM
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We can keep this civil smile.gif Measurements are important especially at different SPLs to show us how a speaker behaves throughout its performance range. More information is always good when making a judgement, but it's how it sounds to you in your home is ultimately more important than something a chart shows. We all have our listening preferences, just as we all like different food and beverage.

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post #1759 of 1819 Old 04-27-2014, 04:51 PM
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Seems like there is quite the debate when it comes to SFR charts. I will ask Eric his thoughts on it. All of you guys present good arguments for and against their use. Thank you.

 

I would like to see if there are any other things you would like to see Tekton improve on when it came to your purchase and ownership process. 

 

Thank you!

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Seems like there is quite the debate when it comes to SFR charts. I will ask Eric his thoughts on it. All of you guys present good arguments for and against their use. Thank you.

I would like to see if there are any other things you would like to see Tekton improve on when it came to your purchase and ownership process. 

Thank you!


Actually Hamlet, I would personally like to see measurements posted on the Tekton site. My only point was that I can understand why he wouldn't and perhaps shouldn't - it doesn't make business sense to do so given that his speakers are unconventional and probably do not measure in a way that the typical audiophile would appreciate.
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post #1761 of 1819 Old 04-28-2014, 06:13 AM
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Eric's fundamental problems are not that he doesn't provide measurements, it's that he provides consistently misleading delivery dates, provides all manners of excuses, has a history when it comes to grills typically resulting in incomplete shipments, and has fabricated stories about the scope and size of his business.
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post #1762 of 1819 Old 04-28-2014, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamletfg View Post

Seems like there is quite the debate when it comes to SFR charts. I will ask Eric his thoughts on it. All of you guys present good arguments for and against their use. Thank you.

I would like to see if there are any other things you would like to see Tekton improve on when it came to your purchase and ownership process. 

Thank you!

I would like to give as much constructive criticism as I can. I’m not trying to bash Tekton, (I own a set of Pens), but I’m merely trying to point out the competitors strong points versus Tekton.
The warranty on the speakers is average, compared to a company like Aperion who has 10 years warranty.
Return policy will drive a lot of potential customers away (customer has to pay shipping + 15% restock fee). Again Aperion has no restock, no shipping fee return policy.
Website has improved dramatically over the old design but still needs a few minor tweaks but in all its pretty good.
Good business practice is to over under promise, over deliver. Forums like these will magnify any weaknesses/issues a company has. (take ED for example)

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post #1763 of 1819 Old 04-28-2014, 09:46 AM
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And please tell Eric to finish my pendragon speaker grill LF and C as promised November 2013 hope he does it on my life time..
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And please tell Eric to finish my pendragon speaker grill LF and C as promised November 2013 hope he does it on my life time..

Wow, good to see things still haven't completely changed around here...lol
I can't believe after everything that has happened there's still customers that don't have grills. eek.gif
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post #1765 of 1819 Old 04-28-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by hamletfg View Post

Hi Pendragon fans. I am a student at UVU and I am helping Tekton for one of my senior classes. I  have read through most of your posts before I took on the project and it's nice to see all of your feedback. From what I have read it seems like you guys really like the speakers you just run into a few issues:

- Response time from Tekton on questions and order status
- Possible miscommunication when it comes to estimated shipping address. 
- Improve the speaker grill issue.

Are there any other things you would like to see improved? I hope this is fine asking this here. I am a more beginner audiophile, but I am excited to talk audio stuff with you guys!

- Hamlet

I'm not sure if you were involved in the "Faces of Tekton" event at UVU, but If you were I'll give a little feedback. I heard about the event from a friend who saw it on the Tekton Blog. We decided to go check it out and got to the event early because the blog made no mention what room the event was in so we had to walk around the building until we found it. Even though we were early nothing was set up when we got there an they were still setting up well after the start time. Even during the event, the subwoofer was not working and they were still trying to get the settings right.

It seemed like people were surprised we were there and I left with a feeling that this was only for students to get some pictures for marketing purposes. We only got to listen for a few minutes because it got started 30 minutes late. All in all we left unimpressed and pretty confused as to the whole point of the thing. I'm still unclear as to how much Eric was involved in putting the event together and how much was the students, but I could tell Eric was stressed and the event did not leave me with a good impression.


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post #1766 of 1819 Old 04-28-2014, 05:47 PM
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Actually Hamlet, I would personally like to see measurements posted on the Tekton site. My only point was that I can understand why he wouldn't and perhaps shouldn't - it doesn't make business sense to do so given that his speakers are unconventional and probably do not measure in a way that the typical audiophile would appreciate.

 

Great feedback. I will talk to Eric about it and let all of you know on the measurements. Thanks realmensrea.

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Eric's fundamental problems are not that he doesn't provide measurements, it's that he provides consistently misleading delivery dates, provides all manners of excuses, has a history when it comes to grills typically resulting in incomplete shipments, and has fabricated stories about the scope and size of his business.

 

Some very honest feedback Chu Gai. Thank you. This feedback really helps me prepare a good case to present to Eric. 

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Wow, good to see things still haven't completely changed around here...lol
I can't believe after everything that has happened there's still customers that don't have grills. eek.gif

 

From what I read in the past comments it was really interesting to see how the speaker grills could turn into such a debacle. Maybe I can suggest some other manufacturers that can make the grills for the speakers so he doesn't have to worry about adding something else to his list.

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post #1769 of 1819 Old 04-28-2014, 05:54 PM
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I'm not sure if you were involved in the "Faces of Tekton" event at UVU, but If you were I'll give a little feedback. I heard about the event from a friend who saw it on the Tekton Blog. We decided to go check it out and got to the event early because the blog made no mention what room the event was in so we had to walk around the building until we found it. Even though we were early nothing was set up when we got there an they were still setting up well after the start time. Even during the event, the subwoofer was not working and they were still trying to get the settings right.

It seemed like people were surprised we were there and I left with a feeling that this was only for students to get some pictures for marketing purposes. We only got to listen for a few minutes because it got started 30 minutes late. All in all we left unimpressed and pretty confused as to the whole point of the thing. I'm still unclear as to how much Eric was involved in putting the event together and how much was the students, but I could tell Eric was stressed and the event did not leave me with a good impression.

Ah yes I am sure I met you there stockmonkey2000! I originally planned the event as something for just the UVU Audio Club. I had some other students in my team that wanted to post it online to invite others. To our big surprise quite a few of you showed up, and frankly we were not prepared for it. I am very sorry. 

 

Luckily this was an excellent trial by fire on how to set up a good event. I hope that if there is a next one we can make it up to you guys. 

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post #1770 of 1819 Old 04-28-2014, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realmensrea View Post

Actually Hamlet, I would personally like to see measurements posted on the Tekton site. My only point was that I can understand why he wouldn't and perhaps shouldn't - it doesn't make business sense to do so given that his speakers are unconventional and probably do not measure in a way that the typical audiophile would appreciate.

Great feedback. I will talk to Eric about it and let all of you know on the measurements. Thanks realmensrea.

Looks like Eric is selling his speakers faster than he can make them. Why would he bother posting specs or do anything different to improve sales?confused.gif
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