Tekton Pendragon - Page 67 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1981 of 1988 Old Yesterday, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
The pens are not 98db sens. 95db at best. Just checked your website and you changed it to 95db. The response is still starting at 20hz. Impossible that two 10's are good To 20. Maybe 30hz... Maybe...

Respectfully, Michael Zisserson put all of this to bed well over 2 years ago. He did a fantastic job with his independent measurements. His review (including his own detailed measurements) are directly linked to my site for all to see. He called it "95dB" and he specifically noted the "tuning frequency of the box was pushed below 20Hz". Can we please move on to a new topic...? Peace and Love!
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post #1982 of 1988 Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tektondesign View Post
Point taken. I disagree. I just did a quick recheck of a few of the famous American and British loudspeaker manufactures and quickly reconfirmed that nothing has changed. Please direct the big names to spec their products as you would see fit and once you get them to change I will follow.
Most of the big names follow the AES guidelines, they measure half-space anechoic. The only major exception is Klipsch, who might measure in room, but they really don't say. I don't blame them, every measurement I've seen done by accredited sources, like soundandvision, measures half space and their results are 4 to 6dB lower than what Klipsch claims.
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Respectfully, Michael Zisserson put all of this to bed well over 2 years ago. He did a fantastic job with his independent measurements. His review (including his own detailed measurements) are directly linked to my site for all to see. He called it "95dB" and he specifically noted the "tuning frequency of the box was pushed below 20Hz".
His measurements were in room. I wouldn't call him an accredited source. He's an amateur who does reviews for stereo mojo. That's not stereophile, and he's no Kalman Rubinson. But at least he says up front that he measured in room.
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post #1983 of 1988 Old Yesterday, 10:41 PM
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A pressing issue that Tekton has is fulfilling the requests for the grills and anything else that was supposed to come with the speakers that were purchased. Those that have brought this up on AVS represent only some unknown fraction who've purchased from you. It's fine that you've posted on your website for people to contact you but if you've been keeping accurate records, then you already know who they are. It's your obligation to reach out to them determine what is required, set a time frame, and keep to it. Immediately. Tekton may well make fine speakers but the company's reputation for trustworthiness is in serious disrepair. Fix it.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #1984 of 1988 Old Today, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RickJames View Post
Most of the big names follow the AES guidelines, they measure half-space anechoic. The only major exception is Klipsch, who might measure in room, but they really don't say. I don't blame them, every measurement I've seen done by accredited sources, like soundandvision, measures half space and their results are 4 to 6dB lower than what Klipsch claims.
His measurements were in room. I wouldn't call him an accredited source. He's an amateur who does reviews for stereo mojo. That's not stereophile, and he's no Kalman Rubinson. But at least he says up front that he measured in room.

I'm up on all of this... 6 years of my career was spent with my desk two inches from the door of an anechoic chamber. I've designed well over 50 commercially available loudspeakers to date. I've long lost track of the competitors models I've evaluated through electro-acoustical data collection. I regularly spent my work day capturing microphone measurements with EASE - Enhanced Acoustic Simulator for Engineers. The data I collected had to be spot-on perfect so acousticians could accurately design public venues (airports, theaters, concert halls, etc...). I'm also confident "AES" is up to date on EASE. In my opinion, EASE makes the hi-fi type measurements music lovers rely on look like child's play. I feel somewhat confident in saying I've measured and collected more data on loudspeakers than the average reviewer will capture over an entire lifetime.

BINGO on the famous American brand you've called out!

Thanks for touching on "half-space anechoic" too. Over my career I've used "half-space" baffles extensively. I've found them to be near useless in designing hi-fi and/or home theater loudspeakers. I did find them very handy while designing in-wall, in-ceiling, and outdoor ground level loudspeakers (the ones that look like fake rocks). Transducer engineers are the individuals that require living in a "half-space" world. I couldn't design a woofer, tweeter, or midrange without a "half-space" chamber.

So, due to "AES" guidelines are you telling me some people prefer loudspeakers to be baffle flush mounted into their walls in a "half-space" format for that extra bottom end SLP 'kick' and the shallow depthless imaging caused by the immediate boundary? I'm asking myself what "half-space" has to do with real world music... both live and recorded source?! Dr. Bose became a billionaire through "direct and reflected" sound not boundary sound. For myself, I've always found the imaging to be somewhat compromised when enjoying 2pi-fi! Now, please remind me again... 2pi provides emphasis to low frequencies directly on-axis by how much...? Now you've really got me thinking.... I wonder if shooting a loudspeaker intended for an open room and placed in "half-space" was dreamt up (long before I was born) as a simple and elegant way of padding specs to get the advantage over a competitor...

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post #1985 of 1988 Unread Today, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
A pressing issue that Tekton has is fulfilling the requests for the grills and anything else that was supposed to come with the speakers that were purchased. Those that have brought this up on AVS represent only some unknown fraction who've purchased from you. It's fine that you've posted on your website for people to contact you but if you've been keeping accurate records, then you already know who they are. It's your obligation to reach out to them determine what is required, set a time frame, and keep to it. Immediately. Tekton may well make fine speakers but the company's reputation for trustworthiness is in serious disrepair. Fix it.

Point taken. I've taken appropriate measures that insure anyone wanting grilles is accommodated and also insure grilles are consistently produced and supplied to our clients going forward. Thanks!
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post #1986 of 1988 Unread Today, 10:23 AM
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That's good to hear Eric and I trust that in the very near future, those who've posted in this thread about such matters including michaelthemutt who is waiting for some kind of labels will once again post that they have been accommodated. It brings me no joy to post in a thread about deficiencies such as these. America loves stories about people or businesses who've turned their lives around. It's a common theme in movies. Maybe the ultimate success story. I want to hear stories how Tekton makes well regarded speakers and everything ships when it's supposed to. You've indicated that you can make this happen. Make it so.

Regards
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post #1987 of 1988 Unread Today, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tektondesign View Post
So, due to "AES" guidelines are you telling me some people prefer loudspeakers to be baffle flush mounted into their walls in a "half-space" format for that extra SLP 'kick'
Half-space anechoic testing was adopted in the 1930s because it removes the room from the equation. You can't make valid comparisons if everyone uses a different standard, and as free-space is an impractical method half-space was adopted. Measuring in-room will give a different result in every room, and for that matter in the same room you can use a dozen placements and get a dozen different results. As for flush mounting, that in and of itself doesn't give a half-space anechoic result. OTOH placing a speaker less than 1/4 wavelength from two boundaries, for instance the floor and the wall behind it, will give a quarter-space result, resulting in 6dB higher below the baffle step frequency compared to half-space. Doing so gives as valid a result to the consumer for comparison as does quoting a car's gas mileage while going downhill.

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post #1988 of 1988 Unread Today, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
Half-space anechoic testing was adopted in the 1930s because it removes the room from the equation. You can't make valid comparisons if everyone uses a different standard, and as free-space is an impractical method half-space was adopted. Measuring in-room will give a different result in every room, and for that matter in the same room you can use a dozen placements and get a dozen different results. As for flush mounting, that in and of itself doesn't give a half-space anechoic result. OTOH placing a speaker less than 1/4 wavelength from two boundaries, for instance the floor and the wall behind it, will give a quarter-space result, resulting in 6dB higher below the baffle step frequency compared to half-space. Doing so gives as valid a result to the consumer for comparison as does quoting a car's gas mileage while going downhill.
I tend to agree with everything you've outlined. And add that only the calibrated gating of wavelengths longer than reflection distances caused by boundaries to remove them in their entirety allows you to go from place to place and room to room. Significant ripples will also appear as you close the gap from half-space to quarter-space.
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