NE Spring Speaker Shootout GTG - Date Poll and Discussion - Page 25 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Which date works best for you?
Saturday, April 6th 5 35.71%
Saturday, April 13th 8 57.14%
Saturday, March 30th 1 7.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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post #721 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 06:38 AM
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Ryan, you did leave it there, Andrew asked me if it was mine back in Dec, hopefully he still has it. I thought it might have been Jeffs because i could not remember who else was doing stuff up there
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post #722 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Ryan, you did leave it there, Andrew asked me if it was mine back in Dec, hopefully he still has it. I thought it might have been Jeffs because i could not remember who else was doing stuff up there

This is true! It's been sitting under my Blu Ray player since the last event, heh. I thought it was Adam's or Jeff's, didn't know you brought any of those discs. smile.gif

Ryan - If you think you will be around for dinner, let me know.
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post #723 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys - A couple thoughts and agenda topics for Friday:

With some of the larger speakers, placement is limited to the corners of my room which have implications in terms of some dips/peaks due to the room's acoustics. The severity of these room modes are lessened due to the treatments, but they do still exist. I've noticed many of these are corrected easily with Audyssey or any basic type of manual EQ. I would suggest we run Audyssey for at least 1-3 positions to calculate distance properly as well as deal with the room issues. I'll leave it to us as a group to decide on Friday - we can play with it some more then. The downside is by nature Audyssey brings up the highs a bit. It most cases it sounds very good, but in some cases (heavy guitar solos, etc) it can sound a bit harsh at loud to severe volumes. smile.gif I don't see this being much of an issue for our standardized volume section, but more so for when we let loose later on. biggrin.gif

Another option is to run some basic manual eq - does anyone have something like a DCX handy we could use for on the fly adjustments? We'll have the omnimic out for each setup anyway. In this case we'd be forced to run an outboard amp, which is fine with me as I've got a few laying around including the EP4000 which would power any of the setups on Saturday easily.
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post #724 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Guys - A couple thoughts and agenda topics for Friday:

With some of the larger speakers, placement is limited to the corners of my room which have implications in terms of some dips/peaks due to the room's acoustics. The severity of these room modes are lessened due to the treatments, but they do still exist. I've noticed many of these are corrected easily with Audyssey or any basic type of manual EQ. I would suggest we run Audyssey for at least 1-3 positions to calculate distance properly as well as deal with the room issues. I'll leave it to us as a group to decide on Friday - we can play with it some more then. The downside is by nature Audyssey brings up the highs a bit. It most cases it sounds very good, but in some cases (heavy guitar solos, etc) it can sound a bit harsh at loud to severe volumes. smile.gif I don't see this being much of an issue for our standardized volume section, but more so for when we let loose later on. biggrin.gif

Another option is to run some basic manual eq - does anyone have something like a DCX handy we could use for on the fly adjustments? We'll have the omnimic out for each setup anyway. In this case we'd be forced to run an outboard amp, which is fine with me as I've got a few laying around including the EP4000 which would power any of the setups on Saturday easily.

I'm against any EQ or audyssey only because it won't be consistent across all the speakers. If we find a particular dip at a certain frequency on friday we can use the receiver to correct it and leave that on for the entire event.

I very much do not want to put any extra boxes between the receiver and the speakers. If we have issues from the room, we have issues from the room and they will be consistent for each setup. Something of note here: mid to high frequencies are highly directional and susceptible to people moving about and direct line of sight to the speakers. We can't correct for that and I don't think we should even try.


---but then what do I know, someone shut me up if I am spouting garbage.
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post #725 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 08:03 AM
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Gents,

Who did we say was coordinating the Harlem Shake again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R8HGsbI4QY&sns=em

Just did one week before last. The only place you will get to see it is on my phone however...at least for the time being. Had a lot of fun doing it, but it was a pretty small crowd.

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Calling Rob from NJ and newbie01. Do you copy? If so, come on down (or up) to Andrews this weekend! Get drunk, lose your hearing and find out just how much better some of this equipment is then what you own. Well, that's what happened to me last time anyway...

Jeez, a little bitter eh???Haha TRUTH! Real Truth

Ok, for EQing, I may have an option as well. I have a DBX Dual 31-Band equalizer that I haven't been using lately and I can bring that along. If we decide we need, we can use it.

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post #726 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm against any EQ or audyssey only because it won't be consistent across all the speakers. If we find a particular dip at a certain frequency on friday we can use the receiver to correct it and leave that on for the entire event.

I very much do not want to put any extra boxes between the receiver and the speakers. If we have issues from the room, we have issues from the room and they will be consistent for each setup. Something of note here: mid to high frequencies are highly directional and susceptible to people moving about and direct line of sight to the speakers. We can't correct for that and I don't think we should even try.


---but then what do I know, someone shut me up if I am spouting garbage.

Ben - The issue is that due to the drastic differences in each speaker in directivity, size, design, etc, some of these modes will be exaggerated much more on some than others. Like I said let's do some experimenting on Friday before we come to any conclusions. wink.gif BTW outside of Audyssey the receivers EQ is very very limited.

Pros for EQ - Each speaker will sound the best that it can, in the same room as the other speakers.

Cons for EQ - Manipulates the sound of the original design and introduces variability if we use Audyssey.
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post #727 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 08:23 AM
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Really looking forward to this. I am just going to find a seat, plant myself, and only move when needed smile.gif. Hopefully long enough to hear most of the stuff that's going to be there. But no matter what, it's going to be a very cool GTG.

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post #728 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rush2049 View Post

I'm against any EQ or audyssey only because it won't be consistent across all the speakers. If we find a particular dip at a certain frequency on friday we can use the receiver to correct it and leave that on for the entire event.

I very much do not want to put any extra boxes between the receiver and the speakers. If we have issues from the room, we have issues from the room and they will be consistent for each setup. Something of note here: mid to high frequencies are highly directional and susceptible to people moving about and direct line of sight to the speakers. We can't correct for that and I don't think we should even try.


---but then what do I know, someone shut me up if I am spouting garbage.

Ben - The issue is that due to the drastic differences in each speaker in directivity, size, design, etc, some of these modes will be exaggerated much more on some than others. Like I said let's do some experimenting on Friday before we come to any conclusions. wink.gif BTW outside of Audyssey the receivers EQ is very very limited.

Pros for EQ - Each speaker will sound the best that it can, in the same room as the other speakers.

Cons for EQ - Manipulates the sound of the original design and introduces variability if we use Audyssey.

I'm with Ben on this,

Audyssey can significantly alter the balance of a speaker, and the chosen microphone locations greatly affect the results which are not consistent. The results are also not consistent speaker to speaker, so we end up listening to what Audyssey has done just as much as the speaker, which doesn't tell you what swapping speakers in a given room will do. With the very deep room and ~20 people, you can't possibly get an optimization for all listening areas, and often that can make it worse for those not in the primary spots.

Running Audyssey each time for the blind subwoofer shootout in KC created many significant variables and greatly overshadowed some of the differences and we later realized using the 2 outputs resulted in a more peaky and variable response than using a single output.

If there is a dominant room mode seen in all speakers, it might be possible to tame that with EQ in the software side of the playback, but if the purpose is to determine what the differences are in the speakers, the only thing we should be changing between sessions is the speakers and the channel levels, possibly the distance/delay on the sub for a good integration with each speaker.
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post #729 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I'm with Ben on this,

Audyssey can significantly alter the balance of a speaker, and the chosen microphone locations greatly affect the results which are not consistent. The results are also not consistent speaker to speaker, so we end up listening to what Audyssey has done just as much as the speaker, which doesn't tell you what swapping speakers in a given room will do. With the very deep room and ~20 people, you can't possibly get an optimization for all listening areas, and often that can make it worse for those not in the primary spots.

Running Audyssey each time for the blind subwoofer shootout in Omaha created many significant variables and greatly overshadowed some of the differences and we later realized using the 2 outputs resulted in a more peaky and variable response than using a single output.

If there is a dominant room mode seen in all speakers, it might be possible to tame that with EQ in the software side of the playback, but if the purpose is to determine what the differences are in the speakers, the only thing we should be changing between sessions is the speakers and the channel levels, possibly the distance/delay on the sub for a good integration with each speaker.

And I'm with Mark on this, somewhat emphatically. The pair of A5 TAI submitted will presumably be at the economy end of the spectrum but a lot of care went into making them do their best just the same. I recommend against having them redesigned either by a receiver or by committee. smile.gif
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post #730 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I'm with Ben on this,

Audyssey can significantly alter the balance of a speaker, and the chosen microphone locations greatly affect the results which are not consistent. The results are also not consistent speaker to speaker, so we end up listening to what Audyssey has done just as much as the speaker, which doesn't tell you what swapping speakers in a given room will do. With the very deep room and ~20 people, you can't possibly get an optimization for all listening areas, and often that can make it worse for those not in the primary spots.

Running Audyssey each time for the blind subwoofer shootout in Omaha created many significant variables and greatly overshadowed some of the differences and we later realized using the 2 outputs resulted in a more peaky and variable response than using a single output.

If there is a dominant room mode seen in all speakers, it might be possible to tame that with EQ in the software side of the playback, but if the purpose is to determine what the differences are in the speakers, the only thing we should be changing between sessions is the speakers and the channel levels, possibly the distance/delay on the sub for a good integration with each speaker.

Mark - What are your thoughts of balancing via manual EQ instead of Audyssey to take out that variability? Obviously the only regions we would touch would be those caused by the the room and consistent with most setups. I'm not for or against strongly either way, just want to consider all scenarios. Agreed that with the large room it's hard to optimize more than a few positions.
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post #731 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 12:00 PM
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I am small fry here I know. And I also understand that most of the systems that we have are EQ'ed. But personally, I think having as little in the chain to alter the sound is a good thing. For the full range speakers I probably would say very little or maybe no eq at all. For the ones with subs, I think just enough eq to help out any rough spots where they are being crossed over or as was suggested, any nasty peaks in the room, but that's it. I would rather hear what the speaker can do, warts and all, rather than having an EQ maybe cover up issues the speaker may have. But hey, I am on the low end of spectrum here so what ever you guys choose to do is fine with me.
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post #732 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 12:00 PM
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Yea that is where I think a quick measure to find any type of large peak would benefit from bringing it down a shade or something. I by no means think that using 31bands of my eq would be warranted, but just a small 3-4dB filter here or there might help to sort out something seriously errant. Bottom line we know all the contenders here were made with all the right stuff, and optimized to squeeze the most out of their respective designs, but they are all different shapes and sizes, and if we can just slide a few quick knobs simply to take care of any MAJOR room issues, I think that might be beneficial. Otherwise we will all just leave knowing which speaker sounds best in Andrew's room...Good for your bro!! haha What a nice way to help you decide between any of these rediculous offerings!! haha. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #733 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Running Audyssey each time for the blind subwoofer shootout in Omaha created many significant variables and greatly overshadowed some of the differences and we later realized using the 2 outputs resulted in a more peaky and variable response than using a single output.

The blind subwoofer shootout was in Kansas City! wink.gif
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post #734 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone tell me if an inuke amp was used with the CHT subs? I can't recall. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #735 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 12:32 PM
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The blind subwoofer shootout was in Kansas City! wink.gif

but I bet it could be heard/felt in Omaha though! tongue.gif

I've been following this thread with great anticipation (and jealousy since I can't be there!), have fun this weekend guys. I can't wait for your thoughts/impressions!
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post #736 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Running Audyssey each time for the blind subwoofer shootout in Omaha created many significant variables and greatly overshadowed some of the differences and we later realized using the 2 outputs resulted in a more peaky and variable response than using a single output.

The blind subwoofer shootout was in Kansas City! wink.gif

Long drive, same group of guys... close enough. rolleyes.gif

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post #737 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
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I'm with Ben on this,

Audyssey can significantly alter the balance of a speaker, and the chosen microphone locations greatly affect the results which are not consistent. The results are also not consistent speaker to speaker, so we end up listening to what Audyssey has done just as much as the speaker, which doesn't tell you what swapping speakers in a given room will do. With the very deep room and ~20 people, you can't possibly get an optimization for all listening areas, and often that can make it worse for those not in the primary spots.

Running Audyssey each time for the blind subwoofer shootout in Omaha created many significant variables and greatly overshadowed some of the differences and we later realized using the 2 outputs resulted in a more peaky and variable response than using a single output.

If there is a dominant room mode seen in all speakers, it might be possible to tame that with EQ in the software side of the playback, but if the purpose is to determine what the differences are in the speakers, the only thing we should be changing between sessions is the speakers and the channel levels, possibly the distance/delay on the sub for a good integration with each speaker.

Mark - What are your thoughts of balancing via manual EQ instead of Audyssey to take out that variability? Obviously the only regions we would touch would be those caused by the the room and consistent with most setups. I'm not for or against strongly either way, just want to consider all scenarios. Agreed that with the large room it's hard to optimize more than a few positions.

My implication above would be to only look into this if it can be done in software on the playback computer. We should most certainly EQ the subwoofers being used, but that is a constant for all the speakers intended to be mated to subwoofers. I would think measurements of a few full range speakers would be needed to figure an average or determine the common room offenses and just knock down a peak or two. Part of what we'll see is the reality of getting good response from 2 full range speakers.

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post #738 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 03:00 PM
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Ok so this should be a good start eh?

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post #739 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 03:29 PM
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Calling Rob from NJ and newbie01. Do you copy? If so, come on down (or up) to Andrews this weekend! Get drunk, lose your hearing and find out just how much better some of this equipment is then what you own. Well, that's what happened to me last time anyway...

Thank you for allowing me to attend and will definitely be there. Really looking forward to listening to a great group of speakers. Let me know what I need to bring other than myself and funds for a sizable contribution to food/drinks. We'll see everybody on Saturday and planning for arrival at 9:00, unless needed for any help to setup. Once again thanks, Robert
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One more vote for no eq here!
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post #741 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 05:54 PM
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Ok so this should be a good start eh?


That should wet my whistle. You aren't bringing anything for you to drink? wink.gif
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post #742 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 05:55 PM
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Who needs a suitcase if the first place????? haha, that was fun loading these big ole ballers.


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post #743 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 05:56 PM
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Thank you for allowing me to attend and will definitely be there. Really looking forward to listening to a great group of speakers. Let me know what I need to bring other than myself and funds for a sizable contribution to food/drinks. We'll see everybody on Saturday and planning for arrival at 9:00, unless needed for any help to setup. Once again thanks, Robert

Glad you can make it on such short notice. At this point I think the food and drink selection is pretty well accounted for, but a $$ contribution for dinner will be most appreciated.

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post #744 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 05:59 PM
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Who needs a suitcase if the first place????? haha, that was fun loading these big ole ballers.


And so it begins...

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post #745 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 06:08 PM
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Wow this is going to be one hell of a GTG. Cant wait to hear the documentation and everyone's opinions after its done! It would be awesome if someone could open a you-tube channel with the GTG name and upload some videos if possible!
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post #746 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 06:37 PM
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Wow this is going to be one hell of a GTG. Cant wait to hear the documentation and everyone's opinions after its done! It would be awesome if someone could open a you-tube channel with the GTG name and upload some videos if possible!

As I remember it the gorilla internet connection isn't amazing..... but I will take photos and some video and upload at a later date like last time.....
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post #747 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 06:43 PM
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Alright...some one goofed up and opened up the Alternates list...

I see ya all on Saturday. I am hyped.
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Ok so this should be a good start eh?


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post #749 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 07:05 PM
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As I remember it the gorilla internet connection isn't amazing..... but I will take photos and some video and upload at a later date like last time.....

He's got FiOS so I'm not sure why there'd be an issue. I can't say I've tried to connect though.

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post #750 of 935 Old 04-10-2013, 07:08 PM
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wireless reception in the basement poor id guess, it was at my house before i got a 2nd access point
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