KEF owner looking to improve bass in main speakers - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 12-30-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
geoffowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

New poster. I currently have an Onkyo Tx-SR608 amp powering (4) KEF Q10 speakers (F & R) and a KEF Model 90 Ref. Center with a Mirage BPS-150 sub. The bass from the front channels is a bit weak (smallish speakers I guess) and I would like more output here without more boominess from the sub. Would moving to a set of speakers such as the iQ90 up front be a good choice? I don't want to spend tons of money but would I be better looking to other brands -- perhaps replacing all the speakers in the system? The room is 15 x 25 and is two-storey. Thanks for your advice.
geoffowler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 12-30-2012, 10:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,254
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 250
If the iQ90 speakers will fit your situation, I would get them!

They really are excellent speakers, and the current prices are a steal. (I wonder how much longer they will be available...).

I paid $1200 for a pair of iQ9 speakers (which were very much the same) back in 2004, and they were excellent. I sold them when I sold that house, but they really were nice.
commsysman is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 12-30-2012, 10:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Biggest issue is the tiny 8" subwoofer. You can get a better subwoofer and get more output without getting boomyness. Corner loading a subwoofer will give you more output but will increase certain peaks in the freq response causing boomyness or "flubby" bass. Move the subwoofer out of the corner ifs its in one and move it toward the center of a wall. Cross your bookshelfs at 80hrz and a good quality subwoofer at 80hrz.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #4 of 16 Old 12-30-2012, 10:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,254
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 250
Actually, that sub has TWO 8-inch drivers, and is not all that wimpy.

The 150 watts of power is a bit low, of course.

A 12-inch sub with at least 300 watts RMS would certainly be much better.

One of the most powerful subwoofers you can buy is the Vandersteen, which uses Three 8-inch drivers. Total cone area is what counts.

The iQ90 speakers, of course, will go down to 40 hz, and then the sub will be set to only go up to 40. That will make the whole system sound about 300% better.
commsysman is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 12-30-2012, 10:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Dual 8" woofers has less surface area than a 12". 3 8" woofers has less surface area than a 15".

I'll take a 400watt 12" SVS over any dual or triple 8" any day. 150 watt dual 8" isn't going to keep up with a well designed 12" like SVS PB12 NSD, HSU VTF3 MK4.

Surface area isn't everything either, port tuning, cabinet volume, driver excursion capabilities.

I also wouldn't call a 300watt triple 8 ONE of the most powerful, unless you discard a great many other subwoofers. Seaton, SVS, HSU, Rythmik, JTR, Power Sound, Danley.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 12-30-2012, 10:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,254
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 250
Well, I had a pair of the Vandersteens in a HUGE room and they would do organ fundamentals down well below 20 Hz like you were in the cathedral in Paris (been there and heard that organ).

Lots of power, of course.
commsysman is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 12-30-2012, 11:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

.
The iQ90 speakers, of course, will go down to 40 hz, and then the sub will be set to only go up to 40. That will make the whole system sound about 300% better.

If you don't like bass then yes IMO it would sound good. But crossing the subwoofer that low is leaving out alot of content that was orignally mixed in the .1 channel. L/R mains putting out bass isn't the same as content coming from the .1 LFE channel. Also depending on output those 6.5" woofer may have a hard time keeping up trying to produce 40hrz in a high dynamic soundtrack. 40hrz crossover isn't a brickwall is a slope, so it going to try and reproduce 30hrz content as well. Not only that distortion will rise with 6.5" woofer trying to reproduce significant bass output at high levels.


80hrz coming from the subwoofer doesn't equal boomy, mudding, sloppy, or any other adjective and it doesn't make it bad sounding either. Thats where Audyssey can come in handy XT or XT32, it can tame those annoying peaks and long decay times.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
geoffowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So the consensus is that my sub is underpowered and adding a pair of the iq90s won't add the performance desired? If so, what subs should I be looking at?

Happy New Year!
geoffowler is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 06:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,254
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 250
I use the NHT B12D, which is excellent.

But before I get excited about another subwoofer, I would get the iQ90 speakers in place and see what that does. They are going to do an awful lot; how much they will satisfy you remains to be seen.

They are going to give you strong bass down to 40 Hz, which is going to be a totally different sound than you have now.

I guess it depends on whether you want good bass or you want to reproduce explosions and sonic booms.
commsysman is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
geoffowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Good/better bass reproduction is the goal. The Mirage does fine with HT soundtracks. I'll order the iq90s and let you know how it works out. smile.gif
geoffowler is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 07:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,254
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 250
I'm sure you will enjoy them.

Best wishes for a Great new year!

biggrin.gif
commsysman is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
geoffowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks and you too!
geoffowler is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 08:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I guess it depends on whether you want good bass or you want to reproduce explosions and sonic booms.

It amazes me how narrow minded you are. Maybe if you actually listened to some quality subwoofers instead of the little underpowered NHT you'd understand. Some of the ID's I listed provide outstanding soundquality. I guess when you can only form an opinion based on outdated knowledge and magazine websites unstead of trying to see things objectively and from experience you would see that you don't have to sacifice sound quality to get those explosions and sonics booms. Some like MODERN stuff.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 10:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

It amazes me how narrow minded you are. Maybe if you actually listened to some quality subwoofers instead of the little underpowered NHT you'd understand. Some of the ID's I listed provide outstanding soundquality. I guess when you can only form an opinion based on outdated knowledge and magazine websites unstead of trying to see things objectively and from experience you would see that you don't have to sacifice sound quality to get those explosions and sonics booms. Some like MODERN stuff.

+1

A quality sub will greatly benefit both music and movies. Personally, no matter what main L&R speakers I had, I would use a good sub.

The fact is that the best speaker location for soundstage and imaging is most likely not the best for bass. Having a separate quality sub allows you to optimize both.
gtpsuper24 likes this.

Saturn94 is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 01:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sdg4vfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 1,322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 95
+1 a new sub. With the Q10's you're probably using a higher crossover (100Hz?) so you might want to look at subs that also play well/accurately in their upper range. I use an SVS SB12-NSD with some KEF Q100's and it's a nice pairing.
sdg4vfx is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 01-08-2013, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
geoffowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
iQ90s purchased, for that there is VISA. One happy homeowner -- priceless. After configuring Audyssey, the mid/bass response that the Q10s couldn't reproduce and that the sub overstepped (so as to say) now come from the front in a more balanced way. So far I've run music and home theatre and am very happy with the results. The iQ90s were purchased from the KEF store for $329 ea. but looking at their web, it looks like I got the last pair available. Thanks to all for your advice! smile.gif
geoffowler is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off