Sideways mounted speaker options?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 12-30-2012, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone recommend a quality bookshelf line (>$2000) with mains that can be mounted sideways and also has a horizontal timbre matched center focussing on 80% HT usage?
Similar to offerings from Klipsch.
I 'm ok with Klipsch but you can't turn their speakers sideways and I have space and mounting height constraints.
Maybe similar to a SHO-10 but which has no dedicated center.

It would need a 90x90 tweeter or a 90x60 able to be rotated I think.
and
Would need to be front ported as it needs to be mounted in fixed cabinetry.
Thanks.
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post #2 of 17 Old 12-30-2012, 03:15 PM
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Not sure this is what you have in mind, but Ascend Acoustics has the Sierrra 1 and the equivalent center.

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post #3 of 17 Old 12-30-2012, 04:31 PM
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I just dealt with the exact same issue. Many people here will say laying a speaker sideways is a deal breaker and should never be done under any circumstances, but if you have to like I did there are a few options. KEF speakers have concentric drivers which are good for laying sideways. The speakers I eventually bought were the HSU hb-1 which have a horn tweeter like the klipsch but you can rotate it 90 degrees for horizontal placement. These are rear ported but HSU customer service claims they only need 2-3 inches of clearance.
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-30-2012, 11:01 PM
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KEF Q100 and Q300. Both are front ported and both have a single concentric driver so they can be laid on their side without affecting the sound. If you look at the KEF owners thread you'll many posts talking about using three across the front with the center laid on it's side.

The Vandersteen VLR is another high-end concentric speaker - it is sealed and marketed for in-cabinet speaker placement.

The Ascend Sierra1 Center is identical to the bookshelf/main version except it's tweeter is rotated to accommodate being laid on it's side. In your situation you could order three center speaker models. But, the Sierra 1's are all rear ported.

If speaker height is your issue, the Ascend Sierra Horizon is marketed as both a center and mains - it's only 11" high and is front ported.

(Tannoy also has several concentric speaker models, but they're hard to find/purchase here in the U.S.)
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post #5 of 17 Old 12-31-2012, 12:20 AM
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post #6 of 17 Old 12-31-2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:

Curious - do you think three Q600's would be significantly better than three Q300's? There is quite a price difference - $1440 for three Q600's and $940 for two pairs of Q300's (plus he could sell the extra Q300).
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post #7 of 17 Old 12-31-2012, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies. Keep em coming.
I really like the form factor of Sierra Horizons for left and right and have the room.
I just wish they had a timbre matched center that was less than 9" high.
I might give them a call and ask them about it because their website kinda says their lower end squashed center will match their whole line???
As far as the left and right I have 15" height to play with.
Hard to find a speaker that kicks a%# and is less than 15" high.
I was even looking at Klipsch KL-650-THX but again no timbre matched center that's squashed.
BTW I didn't call it out earlier but I run a Paradigm DSP-3400 (14") sub crossed at 80 for my bottom end so no problem there.
As a side question, my Pio Elite SC-67 is rated at 140w per.
In the back of my mind I wonder if I'd be disappointed with the lower sensitivities of these higher end speakers after pushing the Klipschs for a couple years.
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post #8 of 17 Old 12-31-2012, 05:31 PM
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The Kef 300's or other dual concentric design can work very well. Other options would include center channels with a vertically arranged midrange tweeter flanked by the woofers. The Paradigm Signature C1/ CC-490 or JBL ES25C would work. Another alternative is a speaker with the center slightly higher than the woofers that flank it, the Atlantic Technology 144C-4400C series Or Episode 700 LCR come to mind. A combo of those would be the Infinity Primus PC351. I'm sure there are many others I'm not thinking of at the moment.
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post #9 of 17 Old 12-31-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Curious - do you think three Q600's would be significantly better than three Q300's? There is quite a price difference - $1440 for three Q600's and $940 for two pairs of Q300's (plus he could sell the extra Q300).

I do think the performance difference would be worth the money. The 600 is a true 3 way with the concentric driver dropping off around 500hz. This is actually kind of a big deal when the mid is acting as a wave guide for the tweeter.
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post #10 of 17 Old 12-31-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I do think the performance difference would be worth the money. The 600 is a true 3 way with the concentric driver dropping off around 500hz. This is actually kind of a big deal when the mid is acting as a wave guide for the tweeter.

Excellent point! To get the best sound (or soundstage) out of those would you need to keep all three (LCR) horizontal then?
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post #11 of 17 Old 01-01-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Is it solely the introduction of multiple drivers that kills off-axis response and causes these combing effects?
Would it be safe to assume that center speaker designs offered from the likes of Kef, Ascend, Salk, or Paradigm would be designed to alleviate these problems?
Many of the speakers offered as LCR seem to just rotate the center tweeter and make sure its center is not in line with the centers of the woofers.
I'm speaking specifically of the Ascend Sierra1 and Sierra Horizon or the Salk HT and Song Center series speakers.
The KEF uses a concentric design which does appear to be in line with the woofers. Does that accomplish the same thing?
I love tho idea of a center as LCR but I just don't want to blow it.

To see what I'm dealing with, can you all take a look at the pic attached below and offer constructive advice or criticism.

You can see my RB-61iis left and right (they look tiny), the RC-52ii under the 65" Sharp,
2 RB-51ii as front heights are probably going way because they're rear ported. The big Paradigm sub and the Pio Elite are lower right.

The platform the speakers rest on is about 29" high - just about ear level.
This is why I'm searching so desperately to keep the speakers low but powerful.
The room is 16W x 22L x 11H with 1 wall open to the rest of the house.
Seating is about 17' from the front of the speakers. Left to right spread is about 15'
Usage is 80% casual HT so I need a wide spread. (its a wide pit-like seating area.)

Thanks
Paul

kl1.jpg 66k .jpg file
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post #12 of 17 Old 01-01-2013, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgaiduk View Post

Is it solely the introduction of multiple drivers that kills off-axis response and causes these combing effects?
Yes.
Quote:
Would it be safe to assume that center speaker designs offered from the likes of Kef, Ascend, Salk, or Paradigm would be designed to alleviate these problems?
No.
There are ways to engineer speakers with multiple drivers placed horizontally that work reasonably well. IME most manufacturers don't employ them. But even well engineered speakers using horizontally placed multiple drivers cannot work as well as vertical sources. That's just the nature of how speakers work.

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post #13 of 17 Old 01-01-2013, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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This question is probably off the hook but who knows - here goes...

What if I were to add 1 more Klipsch RB-61ii on each side of my front stage and wire them in parallel.
I would have 2 RB-61ii as a 4 ohm load on the left and 2 RB-61ii as a 4 ohm load on the right.
They would still timbre match my RC-62ii (which I ordered prematurely and should arrive this week.)
They would give me more output without more height
I could even have one in each set oriented upside down so as to even out the dispersion and get at least one of the tweeters down to ear level.(???)
For example, one left could have the horn high, the other left could have the horn low.

What do you all think???
Too outside the box???

(I think I'm still trying to get to that KL-650-THX but with a low height timbre matched center)
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post #14 of 17 Old 01-01-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Excellent point! To get the best sound (or soundstage) out of those would you need to keep all three (LCR) horizontal then?

There's no reason these speakers shouldn't work well placed horizontally as a stereo pair, but off axis measurements would be needed to say for sure. There will be diffraction effects that may or may not have been accounted for in the xover.
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post #15 of 17 Old 01-01-2013, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

There's no reason these speakers shouldn't work well placed horizontally as a stereo pair, but off axis measurements would be needed to say for sure. There will be diffraction effects that may or may not have been accounted for in the xover.
Crossovers don't account for diffraction, but diffraction is not a result of horizontal placement, so it's a moot point.
Quote:
What if I were to add 1 more Klipsch RB-61ii on each side of my front stage and wire them in parallel.
I would have 2 RB-61ii as a 4 ohm load on the left and 2 RB-61ii as a 4 ohm load on the right.
They would still timbre match my RC-62ii (which I ordered prematurely and should arrive this week.)
They would give me more output without more height
I could even have one in each set oriented upside down so as to even out the dispersion and get at least one of the tweeters down to ear level.(???)
If you're going to use two per side having the top cab inverted, placing the HF horns adjacent, is the right way to do it. As for the 62ii, to work correctly the midbasses must be no more than 1 wavelength apart center to center at the crossover frequency. With the 1500Hz crossover of the 62ii that's only 9 inches. The combing that will occur above their actual 1 wavelength center to center distance won't be catastrophic, but it will be there.

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post #16 of 17 Old 01-02-2013, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I'm giving up on this idea.
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post #17 of 17 Old 01-02-2013, 05:19 PM
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Boston Acoustics BT1 Might work out. It has a rotatable mid/tweeter with a woofer. And its sealed and designed for cabinet installs. You'll have to copy paste link.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?Pid=BT1(BostonAcoustics)&CatId=HomeAudio(BostonAcoustics_US)&SubCatId=BT(BostonAcoustics_US)
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