Help me pick out horiztonal L/C/R speakers for new apartment? (updated with pics) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone, hoping for a little input here. Currently running a 42" Panasonic TC-P42ST30, Marantz NR1402 Receiver (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052T82H2/ref=wms_ohs_product), and some cheap placeholder Monoprice satellites with a Martin Logan Dynamo 300 sub.

The living room in the new apartment is 11'-3" wide by 12'-3" deep, with a 10' wide wall mounted shelving system with TV wall mount. Picture is attached.



My question stems from needing to run all the speakers horizontally or finding some decent bookshelves under 10" tall. I don't really want vertical bookshelves sitting out in front of the shelves if I can help it. More likely my three year old is going to knock one down vs. a speaker tucked into the shelves. I will if that's what it comes down to, but I'd rather not.

The shelf in the center is only 8" deep. I ordered a Polk CS2 at $99 from Newegg a few days ago on a whim but I think I need to refuse delivery (11" deep without space behind for the port and I didn't know the depth of the shelf when I ordered). The bookshelves have 10" of height, 28" width, 12" deep.

I have a pair of Polk Monitor 30s I wanted to use as rears, with a CS2 and horizontal Monitor 40s in the front. As I do more research I'm finding that the horizontal bookshelves is a no-no, and I'm having trouble finding a center that is shallow enough, decent, and not super expensive. My budget for L/C/R speakers total is like $250. Hoping for a center around $100 and bookshelves around $150 or less (or three <$100 centers if that's an acceptable solution). I considered running three of these but I don't like the 80hz cap on the low frequencies. http://www.amazon.com/BIC-AMERICA-DV-52CLRB-Channel-DV52CLRB/dp/B00009WBYJ/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1357151742&sr=8-18&keywords=center+speaker

Don't hassle me for the price constraints please... it is what it is, I'm on a tight budget and I'm sure I should be able to make some kind of improvement over the $80 monoprice setup.

Thanks for the help!
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post #2 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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If I can't find a horizontal solution, are any of the ~3.5" bookshelf speakers okay? I like the Monitor 30s I have and don't really want to drop below a 5.25" woofer if I can help it.

Also this is slightly out of my budget but might be a good choice for three identical horizontal speakers:

http://amzn.com/B0015A8Y3E

I would spring for it if worth the money over other options.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 11:35 AM
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The DV52CLRS meets your monetary and size requirements and would be better than a satellite speaker with a 3.5" woofer.

The DV62CLRS and Bic FH6 are 10" and 11" deep respectively. So wouldn't that be too deep like the CS2? I honestly don't know why it would be a problem to let the speaker hang a couple of inches over the edge. It wont fall off the shelf.

80hz low end is fine as long as you have a subwoofer to handle the lower frequencies. And since the speakers will be placed back against a wall/shelf you'll actually get a little more bass that way.

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post #4 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Both Amazon and Parts Express list the FH6 as 6" deep. I can't seem to find an actual manufacturer's product page for it.

If it is actually 6" deep, worth the expense over the DV52CLRS? I can get three of those for $192 shipped vs. $330 for the FH6. It's such a small space I'm thinking the cheaper option might be fine.

As far as the depth goes, I'm just thinking if the CS2 is 3" too deep, and needs an inch behind it, then I'm hanging a third of the speaker off the front of the shelf. I think I'd rather just pick something that fits a little better.
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post #5 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 12:05 PM
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I'm not seeing what you're seeing. This is what Amazon shows.

Technical Details
Brand Name: BIC America
Model: FH6-LCR
Height: 9.00 inches
Width: 11.00 inches
Weight: 18.75 pounds
Product Details
Product Dimensions: 25 x 11 x 9 inches ; 18.8 pounds
Shipping Weight: 19 pounds (View shipping rates and policies)

Parts Express does say the speaker is 6" deep though so who knows what is correct?


if it is okay with your budget go ahead and get 3 of them.

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post #6 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 02:03 PM
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3 NHT SuperZeros. It's shallow enough and short enough that it should fit vertical under the TV. If not then just turn it on its side. That's how I run mine in a room of similar size and it works well.

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post #7 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. This is what Amazon shows.
Technical Details
Brand Name: BIC America
Model: FH6-LCR
Height: 9.00 inches
Width: 11.00 inches
Weight: 18.75 pounds
Product Details
Product Dimensions: 25 x 11 x 9 inches ; 18.8 pounds
Shipping Weight: 19 pounds (View shipping rates and policies)
Parts Express does say the speaker is 6" deep though so who knows what is correct?
if it is okay with your budget go ahead and get 3 of them.

I saw it right at the end of this paragraph:

Product Description
For more than 50 years, midrange and high frequency horns have been the hands-down choice for movie theater sound engineers. From the softest whispers... To the highest impact sound... Hrn drivers have no equal when it comes to clarity and dynamic range. The BIC Formula Theater Series carries on the legacy of the first Formula Series introduced in 1973. They offer an output capability of up to 116dB (live rock band levels), while offering refinements that surpass all of its predecessors. Dual injection molded woofers with rubber surround. 6 1/4" mid/high frequency horns. neodymium magnets. High efficiency output to 116dB. Frequency response: 40Hz-23kHz. 22" W x 8" H x 6" D. Sold individually.
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post #8 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

3 NHT SuperZeros. It's shallow enough and short enough that it should fit vertical under the TV. If not then just turn it on its side. That's how I run mine in a room of similar size and it works well.

Those look nice and the price works! Would also make more for more compact rears than the Monitor 30s if I upgraded down the line. Hmmm... anyone want to chime in on the SuperZeros vs. the DV52CLR idea? I've been reading up on how the common center speaker design isn't really that great compared to just using a bookshelf speaker.
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 02:36 PM
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Well if you're complaining that the DV52CLRS only goes to 80hz, the NHT Superzero doesn't even hit that low.

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post #10 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 03:33 PM
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For your setup I would just buy 3 center channel speakers, and use them as left center right speakers. There are many that would fit your application really well. I heard a system that used 3 DefTech Pro Center 2000s and thought it sounded much better than the Pro Center 2000 paired with the corresponding ProMonitors. Since size is a concern that setup would sound great.

3 PSB Image C4s or 3 PSB Image C5s would work really well too.
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Smith View Post

For your setup I would just buy 3 center channel speakers, and use them as left center right speakers. There are many that would fit your application really well. I heard a system that used 3 DefTech Pro Center 2000s and thought it sounded much better than the Pro Center 2000 paired with the corresponding ProMonitors. Since size is a concern that setup would sound great.
3 PSB Image C4s or 3 PSB Image C5s would work really well too.
Sorry I somehow skipped over your budget. Have you considered just running a phantom center with a nicer pair of bookshelf speakers. A pair of AudioEngine P4s would look great on those bookshelf's on each side of the display and they are front ported which would be great for this application.
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 04:07 PM
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Look at the Boston speakers here >
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/BOSHS225MIST/BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-HS225-2-way-LCR-Speaker-Each-Mist/1.html#!specifications

For surrounds
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/BOSSOUNDWAREWHT/BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-SoundWare-4.5-in-Indoor/Outdoor-Coaxial-Speaker-Each/1.html

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 04:31 PM
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How about a BIC FH56-BAR? Seems like it solves a lot of your problems and nearly fits your budget. Would make for a very clean install in what looks to be a very nice living room arrangement.

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post #14 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses!

I'm not sure how much the 80hz low end cap really matters, considering I'm using an 8" sub anyway.

The FH56-BAR looks really cool, but that shelf in the center is recessed, so I thin the audio from the speakers on the ends of the cabinet would just bounce right off of the bookshelves. Plus, the way the cabinets are set up, I'd rather have speakers in the shelves to get more separation between the channels. That is an awesome sound bar though. If I wasn't already spoiled by having rear channels I'd consider that. But watching F1 in 5.1 is one of my favorites, and not hearing the cars behind me anymore would bug me.

The P4s look really nice but I don't want to lose the dedicated center and I'm not sure what would voice match them (aside from a third P4, but they're sold in pairs). The front port is nice though, I will give this some consideration.

The Bostons look like a good value but I don't care for the white (Mist) cabinet and don't see them in black.

I'm still thinking either the FH6 or the DV52 at this point, I guess. Any other ideas or anyone want to chime in on any of the suggestions above?
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Reading good things about the phantom center for the most part. I guess the question is if those P4s with a phantom center is going to be better than three FH6s (or even three DV52s). I've always wanted a set of Audio Engine bookshelves for my desktop PC.

Another consideration for a center vs. phantom center is that my three year old's bedroom door is like 15' away from that shelving unit, with the speakers facing the door, and I don't want to have to crank it to hear dialogue at night. If a center will help me hear dialogue at lower volumes then I need to go that route.
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 07:10 AM
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I don't think the recessed middle shelf would be overly problematic in terms of reflections. How wide is that center shelf?

Also, one nice thing about the FH56-BAR is it can be run either for simulated 5ch or straight 3ch while maintaining your regular rear channels. I definitely understand if you don't want to make the compromise of a sound-bar, but it might be a nice fit given the space constraints and the FH56-BAR is far from your traditional sound-bar. It's also extremely efficient, meaning you won't have any problem powering it with that low-profile Marantz AVR.

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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The center shelf is approximately 5' wide. Yeah, that's true that I can maintain the rear channels with the bar. I still think I'd rather get the front L/R channels a little further away from the center though since the shelves really lend themselves to it.
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post #18 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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So I think I want to avoid having three MTM speakers up front. For bookshelves, I'm concerned the SuperZeros don't have enough low end and mid-range, unless you think my ML Dynamo 300 would pair up with them okay. I know it's a cheap sub but I might upgrade it to an F12 down the road.

What about Cambridge S30s? Rear ported but I should have 3-4" behind them in the shelves. Perhaps for the center I could extend the shelf out a few inches. Otherwise the port will be right up against the wall, even with the S50 center (although I'd rather use a third S30). I can run S20s in the rear on stands and sell my Monitor30s which are a little large for rear surrounds in this space. I suppose the AudioEngine P4 might be a better choice due to the front port but then I'm back to not being sure what to do for a center.

Or should I stick with the SuperZeros and my 8" sub? I like their price and that I can buy three.

Gahhh!
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I'm going to go with the SuperZero setup unless someone thinks I'm making the wrong choice. If my sub doesn't cut it I will upgrade it to an F12, but based on the moderate volumes and small space I think I'll be happy with this setup. The SZs also lend themselves to rear surrounds well too thanks to the small size, so I can eventually have a completely matched setup.

Thanks again for all the input. I'll post back in about a month once I'm moved in and it's all set up and broken in a bit.
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post #20 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 10:18 AM
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I've heard great things about the SuperZeros you will probably be very happy with them. The only major complaint I've heard about them is that they don't go down very low. They are specified at 85Hz, which means they will probably integrate well with a sub with the crossover set around 100Hz. Typically you get a much better experience if you can get your satellites to allow you to set the crossover to 60 or 80 Hz.

They will be nice and clear and fit your application well.
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I'm upgrading from this so I'm sure I'll be happy:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090601&p_id=8247&seq=1&format=2 (150hz bottom on those satellites)

As far as getting the optimal listening experience, well, it'll give me something to look forward to when I hopefully move from an apartment to a house in a couple years and have a higher budget for this.
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post #22 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 01:00 PM
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They will make great surrounds too if you ever want to upgrade to NHT towers as well.
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Smith View Post

I've heard great things about the SuperZeros you will probably be very happy with them. The only major complaint I've heard about them is that they don't go down very low. They are specified at 85Hz, which means they will probably integrate well with a sub with the crossover set around 100Hz. Typically you get a much better experience if you can get your satellites to allow you to set the crossover to 60 or 80 Hz.
They will be nice and clear and fit your application well.

I have mine crossed over at 100 and have no sub localization issues. Even the very deep voices of the talking trees in LOTR The Two Towers came out nice and deep from my center SZ (or at least it sounded like it came from there).

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post #24 of 31 Old 01-04-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking at the picture of the shelves above, where would be the best place to start with sub placement? There's not really a good place to tuck it away.

In front of the shelves will be a thick rug and then the couch about 6-7' back from there, parallel with the shelving unit. The L/Rs will be towards the outer edges of the bookshelf to get the right angles. Like so:



(I know the couch could be centered but the ends recline and I'm trying to get an end as close to center as possible...)
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post #25 of 31 Old 01-04-2013, 09:33 AM
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It may or may not be an ideal acoustic placement, but how about behind the couch against the wall beside what looks to be a table? If the thin rubber/foam on the feet of the ML sub compress too much and allow the plastic feet to touch the wood, you may want to consider some thicker rubber feet to help prevent rattling.
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-05-2013, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, that's a sofa table behind the couch. That would actually be a great spot to tuck the sub away if it sounds decent there. I was thinking it would have to sit out in front of the cabinets somewhere. No great place to conceal it up there, really. I'll start there and see how it works. Since I will be sitting on the right side of the couch (away from the sub) hopefully it'll work out there. It's really a tiny (but nice) living room.
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post #27 of 31 Old 01-05-2013, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

If the thin rubber/foam on the feet of the ML sub compress too much and allow the plastic feet to touch the wood, you may want to consider some thicker rubber feet to help prevent rattling.

I'm going to pick up some sorbothane pads for the satellites up front, so if the sub's feet don't cut it I will add some to it as well. Thanks for the tip though, I've always had a sub on carpet so I hadn't really thought about that yet.
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-06-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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3x SuperZeros ordered. Moving in two weeks. Can't wait to enjoy my new setup. Thanks for the input, everyone!

In a month I'll have a $10 reward card at Crutchfield so I'm waiting until then to order two more for wall mounted surrounds. Screw the budget, I NEED matching speakers. smile.gif
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-07-2013, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Just picked up a pair of Velodyne VX-11s for $229 shipped, should be a good upgrade from the Dynamo 300!
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-26-2013, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Got moved and setup my HT. The SuperZero 3.1 setup sounds great along with a single 10" Velodyne VX-11. One of the two Velodynes was damaged in shipping so I'm waiting. But the sub integrates very well and I'm really happy with the SuperZeroes. It blows away my old setup. I haven't had much time for movies but I watched the first 15 minutes of Drive on blu-ray as a test and it sounded great. The music sounded excellent, lots of volume during the chase, and the helicopters searching while they hide under the bridge was super loud and realistic.

Once the second sub is here, it's going behind the couch, and in about a month I'm adding wall mounted surround SuperZeroes. I'm afraid the second sub might be overkill but I'm going to try it.

Thanks again for the input!

(The PS3 is raised off the receiver about an inch for airflow before anyone calls me out on that.)
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