Research vs Real Life - Klipsch not for me / Now What? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-02-2013, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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So I have been researching for about 5 months now. I thought I found the speakers for me...

I am going for 95% Home Theater...that pushed me to horn tweaters and Klipsch. From reading horn tweaters give more dynamic range and are great for home theaters.

I have read about Klipsch being "bright", "overly agressive", "exciting", "in your face" and "fatiguing".

To be honest I have absolutely no idea what any of those terms meant. I finally got a chance to audition the Klipsch rerfance 82 l/r and 52 center with a 12 inch Klipsch sub ( I am looking at the HSU sub myself).

I finally understood what everyone was talking about... Basically it feels as if the treble is pushed too high on these...at least to me...I do understand its all subjective.

I really thought to myself that listening to these for hours at a time could fatigue me... I really don't think I liked the sound.

A few notes:

I listened in a show room for all of 10 min to one DVD of Shrek...

I was told the 62 center makes a big difference. The store did seem to be pushing the Klipsch somewhat even though they have other speakers there. B&W is just out of my price range...

Some of the other speakers I dont know..but they told me that 75 percent plus of all their business is Klipsch. (World Wide Audio)

So now I am stuck some... They have a decent return policy -- 7 days return 30 days exchange.

I am wanting to stay in the $1500 dollar range for center and front left / right.

Another thing that bugged me is they tried to push an Integra receiver...when I told them I was going for Onkyo or Denon and leaning towards the Denon unless I went up to the 818 model.

The sub to me was very underwhelming... I know I don't plan to go with the Klipsch sub..but for a show room to show case the Klipsch with under-whelming base made me scratch my head too... And if they are pushing the 62 center...they really really should have one available...

I am confused now... Any other brands to look at for primarily a Home Theater? Should I give them a second chance at the show room? Anyone hear of PSB speakers...they are like 20 percent mroe than the Klipsch...did not get a chance to hear them either...band they tended to push me away from them at the show room... They looked pretty though.. smile.gif

I guess I just thought I would be in the pro Klipsch camp since I wanted them for Home Theater and I thought people were really snobby to pick up on whatever aggressive or bright was in a speaker...
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post #2 of 19 Old 01-02-2013, 08:42 PM
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Do not let anyone talk you into liking a speaker - it does not matter
how many they sell - Check the PSB out, they are real nice.

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post #3 of 19 Old 01-02-2013, 09:10 PM
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Yeah klipsch gives horns a bad name.... I would check out Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 and center.
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post #4 of 19 Old 01-02-2013, 09:25 PM
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A good horn speaker, will be the HTD Level Three - with the ribbon tweeters
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers

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post #5 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

 From reading horn tweaters give more dynamic range and are great for home theaters.
 

There are some people (and I'd be one of them) that might suggest there is a bit of misunderstanding there.  For me, the thing with Klipsch (disclaimer, I'm a fan of Klipsch and have owned Klipsch since 1979)

 

Anyways, the thing about them if you want to do it "right" is to get an ALL horn speaker.  A horn tweeter mated with a direct radiator bass bin does not make a "horn speaker". 

 

Sort of like putting a Ferrari steering wheel & Ferrari wheels on your Chevrolet, doesn't make your Chevy a Ferrari.  (not that this was a great analogy)

 

Regardless, you didn't like what you heard and that's what counts.  My only point is it's the fully horn loaded speakers that really give you the great dynamics that you refer to in your post, not just a horn tweeter or midrange.  This means a big/huge speaker to get the horn loaded bass bins and many people don't care for the tradeoff in size.  Not everyone cares for multiple dishwasher sized (or larger) speakers in their room.

 

I for one, LOVE the effortless dynamics and absolutely huge scale of sound that they provide.  Since I've had them since 1979 and my wife since 1989 I've got a good foundation to keep them.  I keep telling her I was a package deal and they were part of the package.

 

This next comment isn't intended to offend anyone (especially other fans of Klipsch) but some of the larger (truely horn loaded) speakers simply walk all over the smaller versions with horn tweeters or midranges like you might have heard.  Walk all over them to the point that many of the smaller speakers sound like toy speakers.  Frankly, this applys to other brands as well.

 

Just reflect when you go to the movies and hear an excellent sound track in a very good (sonic) theater...  you might use that as your holy grail when you design your system at home.  Klipsch (cinema) is one of the largest providers to cinema's in the country, if not the largest.  They are NOT using speakers with horn tweeters alone.  They're using their big guns, some of which home users are now also using (like me).

 

Good luck in your journey. 

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post #6 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 02:17 AM
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Side note since you are in the Dallas area....  you should go to the Klipsch site.  There is someone there who's hosting a listening event at his home very soon.  He has some of the BIG horns that I speak of.  These are not for the faint of heart nor the " I want horns but those are too big" wanna-be's.  If you want a Ferrari, you don't buy a kit car and build it in your garage.....you get a Ferrari.

 

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/150370/1884909.aspx#1884909

 

These will give you an idea of what Klipsch is actually capable of if, you are willing to take the tradeoff (size)

 

These will make most of what you hear at the brick/mortar stores sound like toy speakers.  If you get a chance to hear them you will totally understand that comment.

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post #7 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 09:35 AM
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First a technical note: Dynamic range is about sensitivity and power handling. Though horns (and horn-loaded drivers) are often high sensitivity speakers; the two are not synonymous.

I'll tell you what I tell everyone there. Determine what volume you need at your listening position and then ensure that you chose a speaker that can reach it was some ease.

$1500 for 3+sub? I'd consider putting half into the sub and picking up a Hsu, Rythmik, or SVS. You could pair with Pioneer or Infinity mains and have an excellent movie system.

As to PSB: I have some older (15-years) PSB bookshelves and I love them. I cannot comment on what the current lines are like. That said: I think you need to audition what you can and let your ear be your guide. We can always help interpret.
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post #8 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 10:29 AM
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The PSB Image T6 speakers are excellent speakers. Stereophile and The Absolute Sound both picked them as the best speaker in their class.

You will have a hard time finding a speaker that sounds as good for $1300 per pair. Actually, Saturday Audio has them for just over $1000 (slight factory Blemish; full warranty).

There is at least one online retailer that gives you a 30-day full-refund policy on them (but you will usually pay return shipping).

Another excellent speaker is the KEF iQ70 speaker, which is an incredible deal at half-price right now at KEF Direct; $600 per pair!
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post #9 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 12:41 PM
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Should be easy to find three gently used QSC k8 speakers that would blow you away with dynamics and headroom for about that price (b stock units are easy to find as well) They're a powered speaker, and basically untouchable in my opinion for the price.. I have its bigger brother the QSC kw122 as my front three speakers. They have rca inputs as well to connect to non pro audio receivers. Wall mounts can be easily found that are made for the k8 as well.
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post #10 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 02:02 PM
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Maybe check out the new JBL Studio series. Not many reviews or user reviews but Crutchfield has a really good 60 day guarantee. And what few reviews are out there are positive.

http://www.crutchfield.com/fg_12000_FFBrand%7cJBL/JBL-Floor-standing-Speakers.html?tp=185&avf=N

These were on sale last month so maybe ask if you can get a sale price if you're interested.

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Def Tech SC8000
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post #11 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 02:29 PM
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Since you like music - also take a look at the Boston A360
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_065A360B/Boston-Acoustics-A-360.html?tp=185

And, the HTD Level Three is a good option

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post #12 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 05:52 PM
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Klipsch are not my cup of tea either. In fact, I can't think of a brighter speaker. Check out the PSBs, I find them to be on the warm side of neutral and they have always been excellent values.
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post #13 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 09:23 PM
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+1 on the HTD Level 3
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-03-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Another thing that bugged me is they tried to push an Integra receiver...when I told them I was going for Onkyo or Denon and leaning towards the Denon unless I went up to the 818 model.

Integra is an Onkyo. Kinda like Lexus to Toyota or Infiniti to Nissan.

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post #15 of 19 Old 01-04-2013, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to clarify..the sub is not included in the 1500. Sub I figure will run me around 600 for what I want alone. Maybe I can get it for 500 on sale.
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-04-2013, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Integra is an Onkyo. Kinda like Lexus to Toyota or Infiniti to Nissan.

When I did a search on these forums on Integra I read that they use the exact same parts. The Integra is just sold at authorized B&M resellers and therefore are more expensive...but besides very minor differences they are the same receiver.

True? Should I be looking at the Integra's?
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-04-2013, 07:13 AM
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I went with the onkyo PRSC5508 because it is virtually identical to the Integra version at about 500 dollars cheaper.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-04-2013, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

So I have been researching for about 5 months now. I thought I found the speakers for me...

I am going for 95% Home Theater...that pushed me to horn tweaters and Klipsch. From reading horn tweaters give more dynamic range and are great for home theaters.

I have read about Klipsch being "bright", "overly agressive", "exciting", "in your face" and "fatiguing".

To be honest I have absolutely no idea what any of those terms meant. I finally got a chance to audition the Klipsch rerfance 82 l/r and 52 center with a 12 inch Klipsch sub ( I am looking at the HSU sub myself).

I finally understood what everyone was talking about... Basically it feels as if the treble is pushed too high on these...at least to me...I do understand its all subjective.

I really thought to myself that listening to these for hours at a time could fatigue me... I really don't think I liked the sound.

A few notes:

I listened in a show room for all of 10 min to one DVD of Shrek...

I was told the 62 center makes a big difference. The store did seem to be pushing the Klipsch somewhat even though they have other speakers there. B&W is just out of my price range...

Some of the other speakers I dont know..but they told me that 75 percent plus of all their business is Klipsch. (World Wide Audio)

So now I am stuck some... They have a decent return policy -- 7 days return 30 days exchange.

I am wanting to stay in the $1500 dollar range for center and front left / right.

Another thing that bugged me is they tried to push an Integra receiver...when I told them I was going for Onkyo or Denon and leaning towards the Denon unless I went up to the 818 model.

As others have pointed out Integra is Onkyo under a different name and maybe a rearranged front panel. Its all about value - if someone wanted my to buy a Integra for less money than the corresponding Onkyo, then why not?
Quote:
The sub to me was very underwhelming... I know I don't plan to go with the Klipsch sub..but for a show room to show case the Klipsch with under-whelming base made me scratch my head too... And if they are pushing the 62 center...they really really should have one available...

There's a Klipsch sub that people seem to be pushing that seems a bit pricey - it has features that seem redundant with some of the features of a good AVR.
Quote:
I am confused now... Any other brands to look at for primarily a Home Theater? Should I give them a second chance at the show room?

Anyone hear of PSB speakers...they are like 20 percent mroe than the Klipsch...did not get a chance to hear them either...band they tended to push me away from them at the show room... They looked pretty though.. smile.gif

PSB is IME first rate stuff. I have a PSB sub, expensive but good.

Quote:
I guess I just thought I would be in the pro Klipsch camp since I wanted them for Home Theater and I thought people were really snobby to pick up on whatever aggressive or bright was in a speaker...

If you get a modern AVR it generally has this interesting little feature variously called YPAO, MCACC, or Audyssey which basically gives you a little mic you put where you sit. You push a few buttons and there are some strange noises for a while then they the AVR has made an attempt at normalizing the SQ of your system. This facility generally does a better job than a complete newbie, and a worse job than an expert.

However, these facilities do have the ability to compensate for the kinds of large scale response errors that lead to the perceptions that certain speakers are way too bright, or have thin bass, or etc.
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-06-2013, 09:04 AM
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I also find Kilpsch very fatiguing. They sound awesome for the first few minutes but then get old fast. I dont know if you are interested in Polk, but there RTiA line is designed primarily with HT in mind. You should be able to do a7 mains and a6 center and be in your price range.
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