New Speaker recommendations - Denon AVR-3313ci - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 41 Old 09-21-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I would not make the claim that any one speaker brand is THE best value for the money. I have enough experience and have read enough reviews and testimonials to know that is ABSOLUTELY not true.

That being said, some speakers may be a better choice depending on the room size and use context. Dee02130 doesn't seem to have a particularly large room, nor has he expressed in an interest in getting the absolute loudest speakers he can for the money, so quite a few models could be a good choice for his money. His individual listening preferences will make the most difference here.

Meanwhile, I already recommended some speakers in response to him rolleyes.gif As for Klipsch, I don't recommend them most of the time because they are a love 'em or hate 'em kind of speaker. MANY people (search the forum) have purchased them and later found them to be fatiguing. It's an individual preference thing, but not a preference for SQ. So IMO, more risky to buy without hearing them.


Just do the calculations of the tweeters and capcitors and woofers used in the speakers then you will get which will have a good value. If a company takes home 50% after all parts included in the speakers are estimated, its a pretty good value.
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post #32 of 41 Old 09-21-2013, 09:20 PM
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I got the receiver brand new for $550 back in March of 2013. my buddy worked at best buy and hooked me up. I couldn't pass that up. I will be using zone 2 and 3, but that will come in the next few months. I just want to hear the different suggestions for my 5.1 surround sound system. I am a beginner when it comes to this stuff, so that's why I'm relying on the feedback I get. I will be running two outdoor speakers at some point and running the zone 2 for another tv close by. suggestions are welcomed for the aforementioned. please pardon my "inexperience".
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post #33 of 41 Old 09-21-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee02130 View Post

I got the receiver brand new for $550 back in March of 2013. my buddy worked at best buy and hooked me up. I couldn't pass that up. I will be using zone 2 and 3, but that will come in the next few months. I just want to hear the different suggestions for my 5.1 surround sound system. I am a beginner when it comes to this stuff, so that's why I'm relying on the feedback I get. I will be running two outdoor speakers at some point and running the zone 2 for another tv close by. suggestions are welcomed for the aforementioned. please pardon my "inexperience".


If you are gonna go with a common AVR like your buddy gave you, all that matters will be the soundstage and the bass. Go for the speakers that have a big soundstage like the JBL or the Tektons.
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post #34 of 41 Old 09-22-2013, 07:53 AM
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I appreciate all the feedback. excusemaker, since I do plan on using zones 2 and 3, I will buy an amp. any suggestions on an amp? my budget for that would be about $300-$350.
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post #35 of 41 Old 09-22-2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee02130 View Post

I appreciate all the feedback. excusemaker, since I do plan on using zones 2 and 3, I will buy an amp. any suggestions on an amp? my budget for that would be about $300-$350.

Probably get some help on that in the Receivers, Amps, and Processors forum smile.gif

And I'd say you got a great deal on that receiver. It will sound much better than some (one) would leave you to believe biggrin.gif

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post #36 of 41 Old 09-22-2013, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee02130 View Post

I appreciate all the feedback. excusemaker, since I do plan on using zones 2 and 3, I will buy an amp. any suggestions on an amp? my budget for that would be about $300-$350.

I think it depends on where your zone 2 and 3 systems will be located. I am running my zone 2 system in the back yard. for this reason I went with the ADCOM GFA 5300 2 channel power amplier. this amp does not have a trigger input so you will have to manually hit the switch to turn the amplifier on. this is a good thing so that I don't accidently turn on zone 2 while i'm blasting music in my main zone, which is in my garage, and wake up the entire neighborhood with my zone 2 system lol. the fact that I have to manually turn on that zone 2 power amp is a good thing in my case.

my main zone i'm running the ADCOM GFA 7400 5 channel power amplifer. it does have a trigger input and I programmed the denon 3313 to turn on the main zone amplifier when I turn on the main zone of the receiver.


as for the amplifier selection I would recommend that you not enable the trigger output on your zone 2 system if you have a trigger cable hooked up to the zone 2 amplifier as a safety in case you are like me and have your zone 2 system outside. a trigger input is an important feature if you are running external power amplifiers, but remember the safety factor. you don't want to mistakenly blast music in a place you aren't even at on accident. also remember that the denon 3313 is a network receiver and there is the possibility some geek might be able to hack it and start turning it on and off. you never know these days.

i'm rambling... as for power amplifier selection I think a lot of it depends on the speakers you will be running and also the distance you will be running your speaker cable. you are going to want a high current power amplifier. my zone 2 speaker wire runs exceed 65 feet and i'm using 259 strand oxygen free 12 gauge wire through a 1" pvc conduit (in attic) to a pull box and from there i'm going through 1" EMT conduit to some customized weather proof J-BOXES that have some high end binding posts custom installed on them next to each eave mounted speaker in the back yard. then i'm running pig tails, made of the same speaker wire, with monster twist lock banana tips from the j boxes to the speakers. in other words i'm running a very low resistance connectivity between my zone 2 amp and my speakers given the distance.

the speakers i'm running in the back yard (zone 2) are the KLIPSCH AW650 outdoor loud speakers. they are a very efficient speaker (95db @ 1watt/meter and I think they are rated at 95 watts continuous. they sound awesome in the back yard. the ADCOM GFA 5300 pushes them effortlessly. I can't turn them up half way without the neighbors on one side of my house telling me to "TURN IT UP" and then the neighbor on the other side telling me to "TURN IT DOWN" lol. the sound is awesome at any volume though and the bass hits really hard too.

as for your price range the ADCOM GFA 5300 would be a good selection, but again it depends on the efficiency of your speakers and also the speaker wire you are using if you are running the wire over a long distance. this particular amplifier you can read reviews online about where its seems most people use it for small computer speakers which to me is a joke. this amp can handle a much bigger load. its an 80 watt class A/B amplifier and yes its 2 ohm stable too meaning it will push the hell out of a decent set of speakers no matter how loud you play them. this amp is not going to run out of power. you will have great bass any volume level and this amplifier only gets warm, but never hot. its a real work horse!

I picked up my ADCOM GFA 5300 on craigslist for $50. one channel was blown on it. I took it to a repair shop here in town and they fixed it and restored it to original factory specs for $120. I have $170 total into mine and it works like a charm. there's absolutely no comparison in sound between powering my outdoor klipsch speakers off this power amp versus powering it off the denon 3313. the denon receiver is a great processor for the most part, but its weak as hell as an amplifier and it heats up fast like all the other cheap receivers out there. if you are an audiophile you definitely want to use a separate power amplifier for your zone 2 system and you also have to use a power amplifier for your zone 3 system since the denon 3313 won't power zone 3 speakers. hmm it might but I wouldn't even bother with such a weak receiver.

i paid $400 for my main zone amplifer (ADCOM GFA 7400) which is a high current class A/B amplifier. its a 5 channel 100 watt amplifier that pushes my inwall / ceiling klipsch 5800 speakers to reference levels. its a great match for those speakers. i love loud music and i get louder than a rock concert and its crystal clear. there's much to be said about adcom amplifiers. they aren't the most high end, but they sure do sound good with klipsch speakers.


keep in mind something and i share this with you from experience. the biggest thing that going to affect the sound quality of your system will be the quality of the source material. i listen to napster a lot. some songs are better than others. for sound checks i play ERIC CLAPTON 24 nights dvd (bell bottom blues) to make sure my system sounds right and to make adjustments to treble and bass.

i hope this winded response helps. i too am on a budget. ADCOM amplifiers are pretty decent for the level of equipment i'm running. not that i get out much, but i have yet to hear a better sounding system than what i have now unless i go to a very high end audio shop back in socal. we don't have any high end shops here in vegas except for the repair shop where i got my 5300 fixed and where i bought my 7400 on consignment. the sound quality i'm always trying emulate is that of the GREEK THEATER in Hollywood, ca which is the most impressive venue I've ever experienced in sound quality. that's the quality i'm always trying to achieve with my installations and i have to say i'm pretty close. you can get the 5300 for under 300 bucks. if you want zone 2 speakers like mine you can get a brand new pair on ebay for $400. that's what i paid for mine. normal retail is over $600 i think. they are overkill for a back yard though. the cheaper AW525's are probably more appropriate. some of the casinos on the las vegas strip use the AW650 and after hearing them that's what prompted me to get them.

I look forward to learning more from all of you.
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post #37 of 41 Old 09-22-2013, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by excusemaker View Post

KLIPSCH is the brand you should look at. nothing beats a klipsch for the money and the repair parts are easy to get for them too if you blow a driver.

I haven't blown speakers since I was a 19 year old. Are Klipsch really that easy to blow the drivers?

Also, there are plenty of speakers that are equivalent to Klipsch for the money. Just depends on what someone wants out of their speakers. Usually when people make statement like that their speaker is the best ever that beats everything else, I imagine that they haven't heard any other speakers or have very limited experience. LOL

Yes, in my experience, they are. I had my old B&W 602s for ten years before noticing the woofers were blown and distorting. My Klipsch THX Ultra 2s were another story, I blew the horns three times, got fed up, and sold them. Then again, I did drive them super hard, so comparatively speaking, they handled much more punishment overall.

ps I stopped reading excusemaker when he said cable matters a lot. No, it does NOT. They've shown in double blind studies that coat wire hangers give the exact same sound as $2000 cables. Stop the FUD, please.
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post #38 of 41 Old 09-22-2013, 11:33 PM
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Yes, in my experience, they are. I had my old B&W 602s for ten years before noticing the woofers were blown and distorting. My Klipsch THX Ultra 2s were another story, I blew the horns three times, got fed up, and sold them. Then again, I did drive them super hard, so comparatively speaking, they handled much more punishment overall.

ps I stopped reading excusemaker when he said cable matters a lot. No, it does NOT. They've shown in double blind studies that coat wire hangers give the exact same sound as $2000 cables. Stop the FUD, please.

i respect your opinion on the cabling. i still believe that cables do matter. its not the name brand that i'm looking at, but rather the specs of the cable itself. how long are your speaker wire runs? the shortest speaker wire run i have is like 25 feet in length. the longest speaker wire runs i have are up to 70 feet and possibly a little longer. i'm not trying to make my power amplifier sprint a mile while breathing out of a straw. if my speakers were close to my audio rack then yes i could go with a cheaper wire, but for my application i have to consider the resistance of the actual wire. i play loud music and i need my system to be able to run efficiently. i don't want to overheat my amplifiers. lets not forget that most speakers get blown due to not having enough power to push them at high volume. seldom do speaker blow from pushing too much power. yes I've blown horns before, but never a woofer. why? most people blow woofers before they blow horns or at least that's what I've noticed over the years. they try to get that lowrider boom boom sound out of their speakers, but don't have enough power to push them.

i'm also very selective about the rca interconnects i use. i don't use monster cable rca cables. i found a better cable if anyone is interested. the price is about the same as monster cable, but these are custom made here in the USA and each cable is individually tested with test equipment to prove its a real 75 ohm tip to tip cable. cabling does matter when you are putting a home theater system together.

I look forward to learning more from all of you.
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post #39 of 41 Old 09-23-2013, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee02130 View Post

I appreciate all the feedback. excusemaker, since I do plan on using zones 2 and 3, I will buy an amp. any suggestions on an amp? my budget for that would be about $300-$350.

I was just reading more of your posts. yeah if you are running zones 2 and 3 outdoors I would not bother with using the trigger functions on the receiver and amplifiers for those zones. yeah... that will save you some headaches if you make a mistake and turn them on at a bad time.

for audio you shouldn't have any problems with zone 2 with the 3313ci. video on the other hand is going to give you problems. I can promise you that. i'd be interested in hearing more about your installation plans for zone 2 and 3. maybe share some pics and draw a pic of the layout in your house to show where you will run the cables.

I live in the las vegas, nv area. the weather is extreme here in both winter and summer. because of this I got a special speaker wire that is an excellent a wire and has a very strong outer jacket. this is important to me because of the sever climate we have in the desert. my attic gets hot enough where you could cook a pizza during the summer and all of my speaker wires run through the attic inside of conduit.

there's a very good speaker wire I could recommend that's very strong and will withstand extreme temperatures and also is an excellent conductor for powering speakers. though i'm not 100% sure i'm almost certain that the speaker wire i'm running is also plenum rated or at least has some plenum rated characteristics.

remember something about zone 2 and zone 3 applications. they are supposed to be capable of producing audio from sources independent of each other and the main zone. if you were playing the same music for example on zone 3 that you are playing on zone 2 then you can save some money on a zone 3 amplifier by simply getting a speaker selector. 1 amplifier can push all the speakers in zones 2 and 3 if you really just want the same music rather than playing from sources independent of each other.

remember one thing about your denon receiver. it will only play audio from an analog "source" if you are using the zone 2 and 3 preouts. if you have problems with that let me know and I can help you find cheap solutions to that problem.

I look forward to learning more from all of you.
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post #40 of 41 Old 09-23-2013, 03:08 PM
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thanks for the info everyone. excusemaker, I will check out the amplifiers you mentioned. I'm going to use 5.1 in my main room and it's pretty small (12" x 16" with 12ft ceiling). I like the hsu-mk2 for the R/L and the matching center. they can handle up to 250 watts, so I may actually need the 5ch amp..

I will be using zone 2 for outdoor speakers, but not anytime soon. the 2ch amp should be perfect for the outdoor speakers. I may check out the klipsch speakers you have for my deck outside. I will be buying everything piece by piece. I think I will also get the hsu VTF-2 MK2 sub. the surround speakers will need to wait until after the holidays, buy I think I will get another pair of the hsu-mk2. I will get the outdoor speakers sometime in May.
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post #41 of 41 Old 01-02-2014, 12:33 PM
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Excusemaker. Could you elaborate a little bit more about your statement below? I'm a bit disappointed how about digital source handling for more than one zone. I'm considering maybe I need to connect additional (for example airplay capable) device as additional source connected through analog input. 

 

"remember one thing about your denon receiver. it will only play audio from an analog "source" if you are using the zone 2 and 3 preouts. if you have problems with that let me know and I can help you find cheap solutions to that problem."

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