Why are JTR speakers more popular than Seaton Sound speakers? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 133 Old 01-16-2013, 04:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Frohlich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

They are mo betta then da best EVA!!!! lol .

Well at least now you sound believable and aren't some random punk trolling the boards biggrin.gif

Thanks for your review by the way. I have never heard the Seatons but I am sure they sound fantastic and I know they have a fantastic reputation. Like many owners on this thread I own JTR, but I can appreciate great speakers regardless of brand.
Frohlich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 133 Old 01-16-2013, 04:48 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Damn, looks like they are at max capacity frown.gif If a spot opens up, I'll jump in

Well, if you agreed to bring your Catalysts they might make room ...

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #93 of 133 Old 01-16-2013, 05:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

Well at least now you sound believable and aren't some random punk trolling the boards biggrin.gif

Thanks for your review by the way. I have never heard the Seatons but I am sure they sound fantastic and I know they have a fantastic reputation. Like many owners on this thread I own JTR, but I can appreciate great speakers regardless of brand.

No problem, my pleasure, There will be more where that came from lol, I'm waiting on a pair of Sparks I ordered from Mark about 2 weeks ago that will serve surround duty
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #94 of 133 Old 01-16-2013, 05:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well, if you agreed to bring your Catalysts they might make room ...

I thought Mark was bringing his Cats? If they weren't the so big and heavy, I would have no problem doing that. I thought lugging my mobil DJ speakers was a pain, but these things are HEAVY and to carry them without dinging them is no easy task. I dread the 2 flights of stairs I have to carry them on when my dedicated room is done.
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #95 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 09:29 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post

As a designer (and not having listed to JTR or Seaton) I would tend to favor Mark's approach. With these drivers DSP is certainly the best way to go with much greater flexibility than a passive system. Being able to tune the room with adjusting the DSP is a big plus as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

There are only 2 DSP settings which have ever shipped or reside at a customer's home. The first being the same as what fugueness has had in his speakers since the beginning, and the second being a recent addition of a subtle baffle wall compensation (at lower frequencies) for those building their Catalysts flush in a baffle wall behind a screen. I continue to experiment with options for user EQ, but such options have to allow the same capabilities of the current design, be practical to set up and use, and also be superior in some way to the many room correction systems currently available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

+1. The flattest speaker in the world isn't flat anymore when you put it in a room, and every room is different, so what's perfect in one won't be in another. Flat response was the Holy Grail of the audio Dark Ages, when we didn't have the ability to EQ. Today it's not an undesirable trait, but not a necessary one either.

There is no point arguing the potential advantage of active DSP controlled speakers. Marks last sentence and Bill Fitzmaurice's comments seem the most cogent.

I am running a 9.2 system and may go to an 11.2 at some point. To have all 9 or 11 speakers require a power source plus, running long XLR's to the pre-pro source is not a trivial process for me. I suppose a combination of active (for the LCR) and passive for the surrounds would work but that sets up and an interesting combo of DSP and EQ. I'm not saying that would not work and in fact that may be an ideal situation for some. I'm just not seeing it. I certainly lack knowledge on the subject, perhaps I also lack the vision. smile.gif

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #96 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 09:34 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 421
3 Noesis's plus DCX 2496 plus 3 channel amp equals 3 powered LCR's with DSP and EQ that can be tailored to any room. Don't like the quality of the DCX, there is the QSC or DBX. It does not matter if the amp and dsp is in the speaker cabinet or not.
MKtheater is online now  
post #97 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 11:00 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

3 Noesis's plus DCX 2496 plus 3 channel amp equals 3 powered LCR's with DSP and EQ that can be tailored to any room. Don't like the quality of the DCX, there is the QSC or DBX. It does not matter if the amp and dsp is in the speaker cabinet or not.

While I agree in general with your statement, you are ignoring Marks comments (see below) as to the enhanced capability of the active crossover utilized in the Cats. I have had conversations with Jeff and he agree's this is a distinct advantage but it does come at a cost some of which I mentioned above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Indeed, powered speakers have never been the most popular choice of enthusiasts as they are less conventional from what we are used to and regardless of the total cost being similar or not, it's easier to stomach a few smaller purchases vs. one larger expense. It was a choice I knew would limit sales, but delivered a superior product. There are aspects of the crossover alignment and integration which cannot be executed as well passively. Delays and precise, narrow EQ are simply not practical with passive crossovers. The active crossovers also make it easier to execute the very low crossover to the woofers I use in the Catalysts of <250Hz helping the in-room and off-axis response variations. The active solution is a more expensive path, just as the smooth cabinet face with large edge bevels and premium sealed woofers I employ all add to the expense. They are also key parts of what provide the resulting performance. I would never suggest that I wouldn't design and offer a passive speaker, but that's not what I wanted to found and anchor my company with.
The mention of power loss is related to the passive crossover components. Passive crossovers reduce efficiency at intended frequencies and ranges to achieve the desired response and have internal losses and non-linearities of their own. An active crossover doesn't re-direct or absorb the amplifier's power, but rather adjusts the level coming from the amplifier. As evidence by many great passive speakers, this is not a fatal flaw, but rather a compromise which can be minimized, particularly in high efficiency designs and with quality component choices. Of course and active solution eliminates the issue.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #98 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 12:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pokekevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 5,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Less talk! More shoot out info! lol

Definitely curious to see how these two beast compare

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
pokekevin is offline  
post #99 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 01:44 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

While I agree in general with your statement, you are ignoring Marks comments (see below) as to the enhanced capability of the active crossover utilized in the Cats. I have had conversations with Jeff and he agree's this is a distinct advantage but it does come at a cost some of which I mentioned above.

You can do all that with the DCX, QSC, DBX, Ashly etc.. The better cabinet is something else and one thing that I did not mention is that Mark is doing the DSP and EQ work which I am sure would be better than doing it yourself but tweaking is fun. If I had to buy commercial it would be like this:

Powered- Catalysts

Passive- Noesis, Some line arrays, or Danley synergies.

There are 1000's of speakers out there and many that sound great, many that can play loud, but when you want loud and great the pack shrinks significantly. Now of course one must determine for themselves what is loud and great.
MKtheater is online now  
post #100 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 02:51 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You can do all that with the DCX, QSC, DBX, Ashly etc..

With a passive crossover sitting between the EQ and the Drivers you simply cannot "do all that". How much difference that level of control actually makes is debatable. smile.gif

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #101 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,692
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 284
Like MK said, there are lots of devices that will do the same job as the dsp software provided in the Cats. Funk Audio has a new rack amp that uses the same type of software as the Cats. There are lots of options. That being said, if I was in the market for powered speakers, the Cats would likely be it for sure.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is online now  
post #102 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 02:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,692
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

With a passive crossover sitting between the EQ and the Drivers you simply cannot "do all that". How much difference that level of control actually makes is debatable. smile.gif

Im pretty sure he means the speakers with no passive xover. Just the drivers and use your own active xover. DCX etc.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is online now  
post #103 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 03:06 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Im pretty sure he means the speakers with no passive xover. Just the drivers and use your own active xover. DCX etc.

I'm sure you are correct but Marks comments were about active vs passive crossovers.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #104 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 03:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 421
The dcx has active crossovers.
MKtheater is online now  
post #105 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 03:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

With a passive crossover sitting between the EQ and the Drivers you simply cannot "do all that". How much difference that level of control actually makes is debatable. smile.gif

I understand but I don't think Jeff's passive XO limits the noesis as dynamics or dynamic power are concerned, until maybe you get to the limits. Mark is right comparing apples to apples because in my limited time tweaking with JBL speakers that had both a passive network and I could bypass the network the difference was amazing! Again, apples to apples.
MKtheater is online now  
post #106 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 03:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

We are belaboring this point. DIY aside (I know that's hard for you wink.gif) there simply aren't many bare bones driver/enclosure speakers out there in the world.

I believe Marks comments were directed at his vs passive crossover systems like Noesis.

I understand. There are other powered speakers out there as well. I am not sure how many are refined for the home crowd though. Some higher end pro gear is very expensive and I would expect them to sound nice.
MKtheater is online now  
post #107 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 03:50 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I understand. There are other powered speakers out there as well. I am not sure how many are refined for the home crowd though. Some higher end pro gear is very expensive and I would expect them to sound nice.

Yes, I've heard some amazing pro systems but they are really geared for large venues so not so good for rooms like ours.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #108 of 133 Old 01-17-2013, 05:44 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrlittlejeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Memphis
Posts: 4,718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 192
How does the price of Genelec or Procella compare to Seaton or JTR?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

mrlittlejeans is offline  
post #109 of 133 Old 01-22-2013, 05:20 AM
Senior Member
 
wes k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: jackson ms
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
.
wes k is offline  
post #110 of 133 Old 01-22-2013, 05:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gorilla83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,410
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Damn, looks like they are at max capacity frown.gif If a spot opens up, I'll jump in

Go ahead and post up in the thread and we'll add you to the reserve list. As history has shown, there are always a few that drop out. cool.gif
Gorilla83 is online now  
post #111 of 133 Old 01-22-2013, 07:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Okay awesome! Will do
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #112 of 133 Old 01-28-2013, 07:42 AM
Member
 
aligborat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

How does the price of Genelec or Procella compare to Seaton or JTR?

Procella and Genelec are both *far* more expensive than Seaton / JTR.

I'd be interested to hear some opinions on the comparisons between these four though.
aligborat is offline  
post #113 of 133 Old 01-28-2013, 08:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aligborat View Post

Procella and Genelec are both *far* more expensive than Seaton / JTR.

I'd be interested to hear some opinions on the comparisons between these four though.

There's a whole big comparison between Genelec and the Seaton Catalyst 12C on the seaton forums but "TheLion." Many will argue that it was an unfair fight since he bought only 1 Cat 12C and compared it to a full Genelec system. Still a good read

Here ya go:

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Seaton-Catalyst-versus-Genelec-3way-studio-monitor-4897368?highlight=genelec
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #114 of 133 Old 08-03-2013, 09:39 PM
Member
 
Kung Boa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If price and SQ was equal between genelec and Seaton I would buy Seaton because good private companies are a dying breed and big soulless companies full of corporate suck-ups are not and the components in Seatons speakers cost more than the ones in genelecs.
Don´t know if that´s an issue with anyone else but I like to get my moneys worth everytime I buy something.
The markup in genelecs are huge.
Kung Boa is offline  
post #115 of 133 Old 08-04-2013, 04:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Boa View Post

If price and SQ was equal between genelec and Seaton I would buy Seaton because good private companies are a dying breed and big soulless companies full of corporate suck-ups are not and the components in Seatons speakers cost more than the ones in genelecs.
Don´t know if that´s an issue with anyone else but I like to get my moneys worth everytime I buy something.
The markup in genelecs are huge.

Genelec isn't that big a company. Per Keith Yates in 2004 they had about 120 employees. Now perhaps their headcount is more or less than that. So bigger than one-man show (plus cabinet shop partners, etc.) but probably not the "big soulless company" you think.

But yes, Genelec do often seem to use drive units that...are surprising considering their speakers' price-points.

That said, their "MDC" concentric driver is a very innovative design. IMO. It seems to do away with literally all of the potential pitfalls of concentrics (though one can debate how audible the issues with concentrics actually are) by having both concentric radiation and a stationary waveguide for the tweeter. Here's the patent. Basically, it looks like the tweeter sits a bit proud of the midrange, and midrange fires through a compressible foam waveguide layer that I think also serves as the diaphragm's suspension.

There are advantages to size. One of them is that Seaton and JTR (as well as Gradient, etc.) don't have the mass to do a designed-to-be-concentric-from-the-magnet-up driver (a la Genelec MDC, Tannoy Dual Concentric, Pioneer/TAD CST, KEF Uni-Q). So they have to rely on drivers assembled(by some of the best driver engineering teams in the world, to be sure, at B&C, BMS, etc.) from parts designed primarily as standalone drivers.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
Multichannel music (and video) urban loft living room system 
DS-21 is offline  
post #116 of 133 Old 08-04-2013, 07:56 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Wow, where did that ^^ come from? To say that little Finnish Genelec is the corporate big bad wolf of the audio industry is laughable.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #117 of 133 Old 08-04-2013, 11:06 PM
Member
 
Kung Boa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Didn´t mean it like that RMK!.
What I meant was that genelec is bigger than Seaton and that i would rather give my money to Mark because he´s a privateer and he and Jeff have really done a great job for home theater enthusiast with their speakers.
And the "soulless and corporate suck-ups" well that´s my view of almost every big company because that´s the way things usually are these days.
And I´m not arguing that genelec hasn´t come out with innovative designs or that they don´t know how to make speakers I just don´t understand their pricing considering their "suprising" drivers.
Some might argue that it´s because of development and research but what about their subs? Can their cabinets really be that expensive to make?
Kung Boa is offline  
post #118 of 133 Old 08-05-2013, 07:39 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Boa View Post

Didn´t mean it like that RMK!.
What I meant was that genelec is bigger than Seaton and that i would rather give my money to Mark because he´s a privateer and he and Jeff have really done a great job for home theater enthusiast with their speakers.
And the "soulless and corporate suck-ups" well that´s my view of almost every big company because that´s the way things usually are these days.
And I´m not arguing that genelec hasn´t come out with innovative designs or that they don´t know how to make speakers I just don´t understand their pricing considering their "suprising" drivers.
Some might argue that it´s because of development and research but what about their subs? Can their cabinets really be that expensive to make?

I get it ... having heard his amazing products, I would give my money to Seaton Sound over Genelec too. But Genelec (as Mark himself said) make fine audio products and they are a smallish company.

Plus the Finn's are so darn charming ... Fav. Finnish joke:

How can you tell if a Finn is outgoing?

He stares at your shoes instead of his own ... tongue.gif

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #119 of 133 Old 08-05-2013, 06:35 PM
Member
 
Kung Boa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As do a lot of other manufacturers as well. But the thing that sets Seaton, JTR and a couple of others apart from the rest is what they deliver at their price.
Well they aren´t that bad but they could be better. And I think they are getting better. Maybe it's because they drink more and more.
Kung Boa is offline  
post #120 of 133 Old 02-19-2014, 01:07 PM
Member
 
Romans828's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Naboo
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 29

Looks like the JTR website is down. Hopefully they are creating a new site that gives them a more professional image. I know that they are small and don't want to grow too quickly... but bet they have lost a lot of business due to their poor web site and missed phone calls/emails. 

Romans828 is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Jtr

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off