Why are JTR speakers more popular than Seaton Sound speakers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Is it because of price? I am just wondering because the official JTR thread here on AVS is far more active than the Seaton Sound thread.
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post #2 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 07:41 AM
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I think part of it is there is a core number of posters on the JTR thread that use it as a chat room (myself included). We talk about JTR speakers but we also use it to keep in touch and share info. Lots of the members have met each other at meets or demos and are friends. I don't think it has anything to do with popularity of the product as I am guessing there are more HP sub owners than JTR speaker owners.
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post #3 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 09:47 AM
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I know this might sound silly but one of the reasons I scratched Seaton speakers off my list was because with the built in amps they're just priced too high for me. I don't know if its even possible but it would be nice to see some of his great speakers without the built in amps. I haven't been following Seaton for all that long, is there a reason why he really only offers his speakers with built in amps?

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post #4 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I know this might sound silly but one of the reasons I scratched Seaton speakers off my list was because with the built in amps they're just priced too high for me. I don't know if its even possible but it would be nice to see some of his great speakers without the built in amps. I haven't been following Seaton for all that long, is there a reason why he really only offers his speakers with built in amps?

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post #5 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 10:35 AM
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JTR is easier to spell.
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post #6 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

JTR is easier to spell.

This is obviously the correct answer. biggrin.gif

Seriously, though, as already mentioned, it's likely the price difference and that the JTR guys are a tight group and chat frequently in that thread.

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post #7 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 12:38 PM
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Price and power.

Currently, I would need to add another two 20A lines to just be able to run the speakers and my Submersive without tripping the breaker. The cost adds up per speaker, and I just don't need all that power. I prefer active crossovers with dsp like this, but I just can't afford it. With that said, I love my Submersive.

The Noesis is a highly efficient speaker that can run just fine off any decent avr. I would save a few thousand going that route if I ever do.

Plus, you can only gush over your system for so long. It's almost a good thing that the thread is quiet, it means everyone is happy with their purchases, and hasn't had any issues.
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post #8 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 12:41 PM
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The Cat8's are around the price of the Noesis. I wonder how they compare.

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post #9 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

JTR is easier to spell.

Apparently not as I have seen several instances where the products were referred to a JRT's.

Having both JTR's and JRT's (Jack Russell Terriers) they do have some similarities....

Both are high energy and capable of destroying my house ... tongue.gif

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post #10 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 01:34 PM
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It's time for someone to put together a JTR Noesis vs Seaton Catalyst shootout. wink.gif I think both speakers will be present at the NE GTG, but that's not until April, plus a bazillion other speakers will be present. I think these two specifically need to be compared.

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post #11 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

It's time for someone to put together a JTR Noesis vs Seaton Catalyst shootout. wink.gif I think both speakers will be present at the NE GTG, but that's not until April, plus a bazillion other speakers will be present. I think these two specifically need to be compared.

I have talked about doing this with Fugueness but there are so many snags. I'm really skeptical of the sighted GTG's and the blind are a real PITA to setup although I thought the Iowa boys did a good job.

I've heard the Catalysts on several occasions and I'm a fan of both speakers and designer/builders. The powered (DSP) aspect of the Catalysts is why they sound so good. The very high end CD/horn and well designed crossover is the key to the beautiful music made by the Noesis. Two paths to the same end ... great sound.

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post #12 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 06:21 PM
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Perhaps we can hold a Noesis vs Catalyst blind shoot out in the spring. I love hosting or can drive north to Wisconsin!

Nuance - get that all worked out with Mark :-)
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post #13 of 133 Old 01-11-2013, 08:04 PM
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Perhaps we can hold a Noesis vs Catalyst blind shoot out in the spring. I love hosting or can drive north to Wisconsin!

Nuance - get that all worked out with Mark :-)

All right then - we will start planning something through Emails (you and I), and once we work out semantics we'll work with Jeff and Mark before going further publicly. This is going to be fun!

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post #14 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 03:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome. cool.gif

Can't wait to check out the results of the shoot-out. Hope it happens soon. smile.gif
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post #15 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I have talked about doing this with Fugueness but there are so many snags. I'm really skeptical of the sighted GTG's and the blind are a real PITA to setup although I thought the Iowa boys did a good job.

I've heard the Catalysts on several occasions and I'm a fan of both speakers and designer/builders. The powered (DSP) aspect of the Catalysts is why they sound so good. The very high end CD/horn and well designed crossover is the key to the beautiful music made by the Noesis. Two paths to the same end ... great sound.
That would be a good oppurtunity for Jeff to break out that 7K LG amp.wink.gif
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post #16 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Is it because of price?
Of course. That's why the SVS forum is a lot more active than the Wilson forum, while JTR a lot less active than Polk.

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post #17 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


That would be a good oppurtunity for Jeff to break out that 7K LG amp.wink.gif
Chris

I think he sold that amp but as the last shoot out proved, all that is needed is a good AVR to drive the Noesis to ref and beyond.

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post #18 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 09:52 AM
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I was at the last sub shoot out in October in Pa. There was a lot of nice sounding subs there. The thing i did notice there was you can have the best speakers but if you dont have a amp that has clean efficient power to drive them that is what will hold back the speakers from there true potential. JTR speakers are awesome speakers the thing i do notice is a lot of guys hold back there true performance by running them with under rated power amps. Yes they will sound good but if you were to compare them to system running high quality separates there would be know comparison in the dynamic effect. Thats why Jeffs active Caps kick some serious bass out its all about clean efficient power you get what you pay for. Thats why Seaton speakers cost so much more its all about power. Power gives you the dynamic punch even at lower levels. I know this first hand i have 3 Cat 12s up front with 4 Cat 8s for surrounds and two submersive hp. Yes it cost alot but i am very happy with the results. And i know every one cant afford to spend that kind of money.

In the case of the JTR speakers, that really has very little to do with it. They are so efficient, that they can be driven to reference levels by just about any receiver out there can can drive 4 ohms. What is critical for them to sound their best is mating them up with a good sub or two.

That said, they can can also handle virtually any amount of power for those who do wish to drive them with megawatt amps.
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post #19 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Do JTR and Seaton Sound speakers actually offer good sound quality? I've been reading quite a few user reviews and some have stated that they just go loud without having the sound "quality" of other speakers. I've also read that JTR speakers don't image well; like you can tell that the sound is coming from the speakers rather than producing a 3D sound image.
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post #20 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 02:09 PM
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Kain , I have honestly never heard that about JTR or Seaton speakers. Do you mind linking a few of these "quite a few" reviews you are referring to....I am always interested in reading/ hearing about other opinions. As a previous owner of Thiel and Paradigm reference speakers, I think the JTRs sound fantastic and I know Seaton also has a fantastic reputation. Thanks.
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post #21 of 133 Old 01-12-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Do JTR and Seaton Sound speakers actually offer good sound quality? I've been reading quite a few user reviews and some have stated that they just go loud without having the sound "quality" of other speakers. I've also read that JTR speakers don't image well; like you can tell that the sound is coming from the speakers rather than producing a 3D sound image.

Your review reading seems to have been selective. There have been a few who owned Seaton and or JTR's and may have made comments similar to those you mention. The vast majority of owners would disagree with those comments myself included.

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post #22 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Do JTR and Seaton Sound speakers actually offer good sound quality? I've been reading quite a few user reviews and some have stated that they just go loud without having the sound "quality" of other speakers. I've also read that JTR speakers don't image well; like you can tell that the sound is coming from the speakers rather than producing a 3D sound image.

My experience with the JTR speakers is limited to the T8s. In my opinion, they image extremely well. Using just in stereo mode, to me they seem to put instruments and vocals right where they belong. What they might not do as much as a speaker with some wide dispersion domes is present an artificially wide soundstage although this can be somewhat adjusted by tweaking the toe-in.
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post #23 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

My experience with the JTR speakers is limited to the T8s. In my opinion, they image extremely well. Using just in stereo mode, to me they seem to put instruments and vocals right where they belong. What they might not do as much as a speaker with some wide dispersion domes is present an artificially wide soundstage although this can be somewhat adjusted by tweaking the toe-in.

I agree Mike and the wide sound stage (dispersion) issue is why the T-12's and or Noesis are a better option for some. When properly positioned, I never found the Triple 12's lacking in that regard even in direct comparison to my Revel Ultima Studio II's. smile.gif

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post #24 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 11:42 AM
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I heard the triple 12's in Melbourne several years ago coupled with 2 SubMersives, FOTP plane crash scene at reference. It changed my whole thought process on HT. I came so close to ordering the JTR's but got to hear some Seaton Cat 12's not long after. Even though I'd always thought you'd have to be crazy to spend tens of thousands on an audio system, after I heard the Seatons with twin SubMersives it was akin to a religious experience for me. I knew the sensible decision was to buy the JTR's because they were thousands cheaper and passive and i'd recently dropped several thousand on a brand new power amp, but I also knew that no matter how happy I'd be I'd always be wondering "what-if" I'd spent the extra cash and got the Seatons? The guy that auditioned the Seatons for me advised to buy once and be satisfied in the knowledge that I had the best. Thank god I took his advice as I have no doubt he saved me not only money but much anguish also. I'll never need to upgrade again now I have the Seatons, they really are that good. Nothing against the JTR's, as I said when I first heard them it changed my whole life wrt HT, it's just the Seatons took it to another level again. So money would be my opinion why the JTR's may seem more popular, and fair enough too. Cheers.

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post #25 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 11:54 AM
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^^^ I suggest you avoid a Noesis demo... smile.gif

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post #26 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 12:15 PM
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Hehe, my auditioning days are over! smile.gif

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post #27 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 02:04 PM
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Hehe, my auditioning days are over! smile.gif

Wise man...

Congrats on finding your perfect system. cool.gif

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post #28 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Do JTR and Seaton Sound speakers actually offer good sound quality? I've been reading quite a few user reviews and some have stated that they just go loud without having the sound "quality" of other speakers. I've also read that JTR speakers don't image well; like you can tell that the sound is coming from the speakers rather than producing a 3D sound image.

As we speak my JTR Noesis are imaging like crazy. I've heard a lot of speakers and these sound better to my ears than anything I've ever heard, they put up the biggest soundstage, and I can "see" where the singer is, guitarist, etc. better too. As a metal head I recently took some crap for posting how I was blown away by an opera recording where I swear the singers were in my room - chills and goosebumps galore!!

Here is a blind comparison between Salk and JTR.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/871474/ia-meet/3450#post_22789054
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post #29 of 133 Old 01-13-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

We talk about price but the two are really close, with buying a amp for jtr of course. 3 noesis $6600 + $2895amp =$9495.

12cats $3595x3=$10,785. So different of $1295. I can't wait for the shoot out

http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/332918

I was comparing with the triple 12's not the Noesis and the fact that I already had a power amp. Wouldn't be many people that would start with no receiver and/or amp and buy a set of Noesis or Cats as their first system smile.gif

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post #30 of 133 Old 01-14-2013, 04:47 AM
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Before the Noesis was available the the Cat 8 was still better than the T8 and the Cat 12 was better than the T12 even with a comparable amplifier. In either situation the Cats always gave more but also cost more.
Now that the Noesis is out that just might have changed or at least evened the playing field. 3 Noesis powered with an equivelant amplifier (The Cat 12 uses 2000 wpc) whether needed or not it needs to be the same to compare and $$$$ wise we would still be talking about $3500. for powered Cat 12 or $3500 for a Noesis powered by a D-Sonic 1500/2400 wpc. (Trying to match price and I think it's a fair equivalent).
If that was the choice I know it would no longer be obvious. It seems that the Noesis may have the better middle section but it would be based solely on the performance of the whole speaker presentation and not just one single part. There may be a new sheriff in town and his name is not Reggie Hammond !!! Its Noesis
I sure can't call it but I would love to hear the comparison for myself.smile.gif
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I understand that the Noesis may not need anything more than an AVR but apples to apples I am trying to make it the same.
Cat 12 = 3500. Noesis + M2 1500wpc = 3500.
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