Better Value then the Klipsch RF-7 II package ideas? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Measured charts according to AES/IEC/CEDIA guidelines don't lie. They're also not to be found on most manufacturer sites. Coincidence? rolleyes.gif
On average a single woofer cab will be 87dB, a dual woofer cab 90dB, both driven with 1 watt.

You may be right Bill, but imo your kind of beating a dead horse.


The old rf-7 was rated at 102db the new rf-7ii are rated less at 101db

If its just for marketing why would they rate the new speakers that they are still selling less than the old model that they dont? If im just pulling #s out of a hat to sell speakers im going to bump up the new higher than the old that i dont even sell any more.( if i was just doing it to sell speakers)

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post #92 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 12:36 PM
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I am just going to buy rf 82 and everyone warned me that Klipsch screaming and I will have a headache after half an hour with them.
I want to match them with the 62 and receiver Pioneer SC37.
All my friends and the guys in the audio forum recommend me to buy the monitor audio rx8 or focal and b&w.
I heard the klipsch with movies and I really impressed but I love to hear rock & blues concerts in bluray.
My living room is not big 3x4 . The rf7 will be too large I think and the price diffrents not easy to me.

Please help me to choose.
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post #93 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 12:46 PM
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The 82 set up is a really nice ht system (i use to have it). And a better dollar value then the rf-7ii system for a tight budget imo.

Those other brands im sure will sound really nice too. Best to go hear for your self if you can.

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post #94 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 02:11 PM
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I don't know what to tell you other than a Klipsch RF-7 will play 119 db's on most people's amps/AVRs so they must be pretty dang efficient.


Here are some results from a test on the Klipsch RF-83 system. His testing shows the RF-83 to be 96 db, way higher than Bill is suggesting but not the 100 db Klipsch get's in their testing.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-bench-klipsch-rf-83-home-theater-speaker-system
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post #95 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vital View Post

I don't know what to tell you other than a Klipsch RF-7 will play 119 db's on most people's amps/AVRs so they must be pretty dang efficient.


Here are some results from a test on the Klipsch RF-83 system. His testing shows the RF-83 to be 96 db, way higher than Bill is suggesting but not the 100 db Klipsch get's in their testing.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-bench-klipsch-rf-83-home-theater-speaker-system

Man, maybe I was doing something right when I was comparing. My Kl-650THX speakers were about 5 dBs low from the specs as well. Either way they are lower than advertised. It does not matter as long as the speaker can play the frequencies intended at you desired spl's in your room. Just don't crank it and assume it is clean based on specs, measure baby!
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post #96 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vital View Post

I don't know what to tell you other than a Klipsch RF-7 will play 119 db's on most people's amps/AVRs so they must be pretty dang efficient.


Here are some results from a test on the Klipsch RF-83 system. His testing shows the RF-83 to be 96 db, way higher than Bill is suggesting but not the 100 db Klipsch get's in their testing.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-bench-klipsch-rf-83-home-theater-speaker-system

I guess its not impossible biggrin.gif

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post #97 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Man, maybe I was doing something right when I was comparing. My Kl-650THX speakers were about 5 dBs low from the specs as well. Either way they are lower than advertised. It does not matter as long as the speaker can play the frequencies intended at you desired spl's in your room. Just don't crank it and assume it is clean based on specs, measure baby!

Agreed

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post #98 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 03:27 PM
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i think i will be getting the 82/62 also

in a 9 ch setup woul you guys go with 6 rs 42s or rs 62? or something else? thx...and really great thread imo
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post #99 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 03:34 PM
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I have owned the rs-42,52, and the 62ii. To me the best value is the rs-52. In a 7.1 i would do the rs-52 for sides and rb-61/ for the rears. If you have a really big room and the side speakers will be far away thats when the rs-62 would shine more. The rs-42 will work but i would pass if you can budget the 52s.

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post #100 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 03:36 PM
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give mike at avs a call 585-671-2968 for prices. should be able to save you some money.

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post #101 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimelurker View Post

i think i will be getting the 82/62 also

in a 9 ch setup woul you guys go with 6 rs 42s or rs 62? or something else? thx...and really great thread imo

If running A-DSX Heights or Wides, a bookshelf, rather than a Surround type speaker is recommended by Audyssey.

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #102 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 03:52 PM
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great, thx! and i was going to use avs for the denon 4520 anyway...so
82s l/r
62c c
52s for sides

61b for rears
61b for front heights (9.2 setup)

sounds like a plan?
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post #103 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimelurker View Post

great, thx! and i was going to use avs for the denon 4520 anyway...so
82s l/r
62c c
52s for sides

61b for rears
61b for front heights (9.2 setup)

sounds like a plan?

Sure does. smile.gif

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post #104 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimelurker View Post

great, thx! and i was going to use avs for the denon 4520 anyway...so
82s l/r
62c c
52s for sides

61b for rears
61b for front heights (9.2 setup)

sounds like a plan?

Yes, sounds sweet to me!

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #105 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 04:06 PM
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What about SW(s)?

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #106 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimelurker View Post

great, thx! and i was going to use avs for the denon 4520 anyway...so
82s l/r
62c c
52s for sides

61b for rears
61b for front heights (9.2 setup)

sounds like a plan?

Looks good smile.gif

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post #107 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 04:43 PM
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was just going to do 2 Rw12D's and keep things simple....I am by far a picture guy, and just need reasonably good sonics and I like it loud. I figured the rw12d's were a good mix of reasonable price and reasonable SPL...everyone is going to get mad at me anyway when it is too loud for them so the orbit shifter I really wanted is out of the picture smile.gif

I will be contacting Mike for a package deal...thx all for the VERY informative thread.
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post #108 of 209 Old 07-25-2013, 04:47 PM
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If you haven't buy the SWs now, if you can, while they are on sale. I like mine, but want another. Can't swing it now, though.

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #109 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 12:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I find your comments to be completely unfounded and just plain wrong.

The KEF Q900 can blow the windows out of any house smaller than Westminster Cathedral.

What is Kef compared to Klipsch? Give me a break...
Beside the fact i don't like the sound of Kef, Klipsch blows away my Home Theater, while Kef would have broke by now....Kef just can't take the high peaks as Klipsch does, and it's not as fast, forget it. This is not even something to discuss...
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post #110 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 05:38 AM
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it's not as fast, forget it. This is not even something to discuss...
Agreed, unless your speakers have wheels and a motor the word 'fast' should never be used to describe them, as it's a meaningless subjective term that has as many definitions as it does the number of people using it. If what you mean is, for instance, 'transient response', then use the term transient response, and post waterfall charts to back up your contention.
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It does not matter as long as the speaker can play the frequencies intended at you desired spl's in your room.
Subjectively speaking, true. Objectively, if you went to the butcher for a pound of steak at $14.95 and his thumb ended up on the scale, so you paid $14.95 for 12 ounces, would that be OK just because the steak tasted good? mad.gif

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post #111 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Vital View Post

I don't know what to tell you other than a Klipsch RF-7 will play 119 db's on most people's amps/AVRs so they must be pretty dang efficient.


Here are some results from a test on the Klipsch RF-83 system. His testing shows the RF-83 to be 96 db, way higher than Bill is suggesting but not the 100 db Klipsch get's in their testing.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-bench-klipsch-rf-83-home-theater-speaker-system

96 dB at 2.8V, yes, but it's not an 8-ohm resistive load. The minimum is measured at 2.8 ohms, so worst case scenario is that 2.8V is actually drawing 2.8 Watts instead of 1 Watt. So if you measure sensitivity using power, then subtract 4.5 dB (worst case scenario) from 96 dB to get 91.5 dB at 1 Watt.

Having said that, my volume control is set for voltage, not wattage, so at the same volume level they would sound like 96 dB speakers (if you get my meaning). So long as your amp is able to handle the low impedance, you are good to go. But remember all that when considering the maximum power handling as well; it's not into 8 ohms.

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

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post #112 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SL77 View Post

I am just going to buy rf 82 and everyone warned me that Klipsch screaming and I will have a headache after half an hour with them.
I want to match them with the 62 and receiver Pioneer SC37.
All my friends and the guys in the audio forum recommend me to buy the monitor audio rx8 or focal and b&w.
I heard the klipsch with movies and I really impressed but I love to hear rock & blues concerts in bluray.
My living room is not big 3x4 . The rf7 will be too large I think and the price diffrents not easy to me.

Please help me to choose.

Sent you a PM. smile.gif

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post #113 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

96 dB at 2.8V, yes, but it's not an 8-ohm resistive load. The minimum is measured at 2.8 ohms, so worst case scenario is that 2.8V is actually drawing 2.8 Watts instead of 1 Watt. So if you measure sensitivity using power, then subtract 4.5 dB (worst case scenario) from 96 dB to get 91.5 dB at 1 Watt.

Having said that, my volume control is set for voltage, not wattage, so at the same volume level they would sound like 96 dB speakers (if you get my meaning). So long as your amp is able to handle the low impedance, you are good to go. But remember all that when considering the maximum power handling as well; it's not into 8 ohms.

Just like you should not use the highest ohm rating, you should also not use the lowest. Use the average, 6 ohm instead. That would place the sensitivity 1.5db down. So I would call it 94.5 db at 1 watt 1 meter. Not bad and will give you good SPL using most AVR's.

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post #114 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

96 dB at 2.8V, yes, but it's not an 8-ohm resistive load. The minimum is measured at 2.8 ohms, so worst case scenario is that 2.8V is actually drawing 2.8 Watts instead of 1 Watt. So if you measure sensitivity using power, then subtract 4.5 dB (worst case scenario) from 96 dB to get 91.5 dB at 1 Watt.

Having said that, my volume control is set for voltage, not wattage, so at the same volume level they would sound like 96 dB speakers (if you get my meaning). So long as your amp is able to handle the low impedance, you are good to go. But remember all that when considering the maximum power handling as well; it's not into 8 ohms.
The flip side of that coin is that the speakers spend more time in the 11-13 ohms than they do the 2.8 ohms dip which is brief. So when it's cruising at 11-13 ohms then you add dBs according to your theory and then where is your sensitivity at?

The calling card for this system, as with most built around horn-loaded drivers, is efficiency, which is one reason it enjoys such exceptionally high sensitivity. Another, however, is relatively low minimum impedance for all channels. The impedance curves of the RF-83 towers and RC-64 center speaker have a single low point of 2.8 ohms at 180 Hz and climb as high as 11 and 13 ohms, respectively.
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post #115 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Just like you should not use the highest ohm rating, you should also not use the lowest. Use the average, 6 ohm instead. That would place the sensitivity 1.5db down. So I would call it 94.5 db at 1 watt 1 meter. Not bad and will give you good SPL using most AVR's.

Like I said, worst case scenario... I hadn't seen an average, which doesn't mean much anyway. Much of the power is directed to the bass, so lower frequencies are likely more relevant.
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Originally Posted by Vital View Post

The flip side of that coin is that the speakers spend more time in the 11-13 ohms than they do the 2.8 ohms dip which is brief. So when it's cruising at 11-13 ohms then you add dBs according to your theory and then where is your sensitivity at?

Haven't seen a curve, so can't say where more time will be spent at... Just trying to explain the numbers here; I have no take in the outcome.
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Originally Posted by Vital View Post

The calling card for this system, as with most built around horn-loaded drivers, is efficiency, which is one reason it enjoys such exceptionally high sensitivity. Another, however, is relatively low minimum impedance for all channels. The impedance curves of the RF-83
towers and RC-64 center speaker have a single low point of 2.8 ohms at 180 Hz and climb as high as 11 and 13 ohms, respectively.

The low impedance dip tells me it likely benefits from an external amp.

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

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post #116 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 08:44 AM
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I use the lowest possible or worst case because it is these circumstances where the AVR will fail for these speakers at reference. This is why many people say that amps sound better because they can handle these circumstances,

Bill,
Yes, subjective is the end goal however I believe measurements will correlate as well. Just like seeing you charts for your DR-250's. Subjectively my DR-250 stacks sound more dynamic and have much more midbass than many other speakers tested and the charts so me why.
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post #117 of 209 Old 07-26-2013, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Like I said, worst case scenario... I hadn't seen an average, which doesn't mean much anyway. Much of the power is directed to the bass, so lower frequencies are likely more relevant.
Haven't seen a curve, so can't say where more time will be spent at... Just trying to explain the numbers here; I have no take in the outcome.
The low impedance dip tells me it likely benefits from an external amp.

Agreed.

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post #118 of 209 Old 07-27-2013, 09:27 PM
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Doesn't Klipsch compete with Polk and all those other lower brands? If I had 3k to spend I would buy the lowest end Martin Logan Electrostats like the electromotion series or maybe a used pair of the ESL line. I bought a used pair of Spires for 4k and can't go back to standard speakers especially after hearing Klipsch RF7 and the Montis side by side at Best Buy.
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post #119 of 209 Old 07-28-2013, 07:12 AM
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Doesn't Klipsch compete with Polk and all those other lower brands?
They have products in a very wide range of prices.
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If I had 3k to spend
If you had 3K to spend, you wouldn't scratch at Klipsch's top lines offerings.
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Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

I would buy the lowest end Martin Logan Electrostats like the electromotion series or maybe a used pair of the ESL line. I bought a used pair of Spires for 4k and can't go back to standard speakers especially after hearing Klipsch RF7 and the Montis side by side at Best Buy.
So you like panels. And I wouldn't go back to standard speakers after fully horn-loaded speakers and subs but I don't go on panel threads to tell them that. rolleyes.gif

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post #120 of 209 Old 07-28-2013, 08:42 AM
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Doesn't Klipsch compete with Polk and all those other lower brands? If I had 3k to spend I would buy the lowest end Martin Logan Electrostats like the electromotion series or maybe a used pair of the ESL line. I bought a used pair of Spires for 4k and can't go back to standard speakers especially after hearing Klipsch RF7 and the Montis side by side at Best Buy.

I wouldn't be able to stand listening to martin logan speakers distort at or near reference volume when asked to play dynamic home theater material. Which is why I go with much more sensitive speakers like Klipsch or QSC (these lines specifically because I own them, not to exclude other brands that are equally as sensitive)
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