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post #1 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I created a thread in the AMP section, but I am not sure if that really is that direction I should have went.

I currently have a Phillips HTS-3555 all in one home theater system. I enjoy this for the most part, but the problem I ran into lately is plugging in external sources to get 5.1 sound. This has a digital coax connection that my DVR uses, but the only way I can get audio to work from my AppleTV or PS3 is to run a stereo output from my tv to stereo input on this device. This has no optical input.

My friend gave me his old receiver Onkyo tx-sr307. Im wondering A, am I better to use this Onkyo, and can I get away with using my speakers form the Phillips until on the Onyko. I know the subwoofer wont work, I'd have to buy another powered sub. I was hoping I could use my existing speakers while I save up and get new ones. I'm not sure how great this receiver is but getting it for free makes me tempted to use it. Secondly, B would I be better off just getting new speakers for the Onkyo? I didnt really set a budget aside, I know speakers can be very expensive. I'd like to get something either entry level, or something someone OK/Decent so I can get 5.1 surround. I'm not an audiophile by all means, can anyone help me out with this?

Here are some specs if this helps:
HTS-3555

Satellite Speaker Impedance: 6ohm
Sat: Freq Range: 150-2000 hz
Center Speaker Impedance: 3 ohm
Center freq: 150 - 2000 hz
Subwoofer Impedance: 8 ohm

Onkyo:

Power Output* (8 ohm, 20 Hz-20 kHz, FTC) -
Front L/R 65 W/Ch
Center 65 W
Surround L/R 65 W/Ch
Surround Back -
Power Output* (6 ohm, 1 kHz, FTC) -
Front L/R 90 W/Ch
Center 90 W
Surround L/R 90 W/Ch
Surround Back -
Dynamic Power** (front) -
3 ohm 160
4 ohm 125
8 ohm 85
THD (Rated Power) 0.7 % (2 channels driven)
Damping Factor (1 kHz, 8 ohm) 60
Input Sensitivity and Impedance -
PHONO MM -
CD and TAPE Play 200 mV, 47 k ohm
Output Level and Impedance -
TAPE REC 200 mV, 470 ohm
PRE OUT 1.0 V, 470 ohm
Frequency Response 20 Hz-50 kHz
S/N Ratio -
PHONO (MM) -
CD/TAPE 100 dB (IHF-A, 0.5 V input)
Phono Overload (1 kHz) -
Tone Controls -
BASS +/- 12 dB at 50 Hz
TREBLE +/- 12 dB at 20 kHz
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post #2 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:01 AM
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First of all, you don't want 3 ohm speakers; that is a bad idea.

My suggestion would be that you get the Martin-Logan MLT-2 speaker system and hook it up to the Onkyo receiver.

It is very good for the money, and far better than most of the tiny HTIB setups on the market.

It has larger front drivers and a better subwoofer than most.

My personal opinion of the whole 3555 system is that it is very limited in what it can do, as you are finding out.
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post #3 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. This may sound really ignorant about audio and speakers but if I got a 2.1 setup now, as time progresses would I be able to add say just the center channel, or just the rears until I reached 5.1? I was thinking if I slowly bought the remaining center, and rears would that work piecing them together.
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post #4 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John82 View Post

Thanks for the reply. This may sound really ignorant about audio and speakers but if I got a 2.1 setup now, as time progresses would I be able to add say just the center channel, or just the rears until I reached 5.1? I was thinking if I slowly bought the remaining center, and rears would that work piecing them together.

A lot of people go that direction. It's a great strategy for building a better system. If you want, you can even start with bookshelves for the front, and then you can make your last purchase a pair of towers for the front and move the bookshelves to the rear. smile.gif

One important thing is that the front left/right speakers should match the center channel. Typically, the same speaker line. So pick a speaker model for the your left and right that has an affordable center that you can purchase later.

For the subwoofer, don't even worry about buying the same brand. Just get the best sub for your needs for the money.

Do you have a budget in mind to get started?

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #5 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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You know what I don't have a budget yet. I just got the Onkyo yesterday, and just assumed my speakers from my HTIB would work. Is something like $500 going to get me something basic that would sound good, but not worse than the Phillips HTS I'd be replacing?

Do I need to look for 6 oh or 8 oh speakers? The problem I have is understanding what ohm to look for and the whole wattage thing, not to mention what gauge wire to get.
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post #6 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:43 AM
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Yes. You can get much better speakers for $500. You can get a whole 5.1 set that will be much better than the Phillips for that, but it would be even better to start with 2.1 or 3.1 and fill out the other speakers later. And 8 ohm or 6 ohm speakers would be fine.

For 3.1, the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR ($129 pair) and Pioneer SP-C22 center ($99) from Best Buy. Then a BIC F12 from Amazon ($198) or dual Velodyne VX-11 ($229 direct from Velodyne)--subs take a good bit of the budget because you are buying a speaker and an amplifier.

There is a whole thread on the Pioneer speaker series: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1278774/pioneers-speaker-genius-hits-low-price-point. Those I quoted are the newest version. There is a discussion thread on the BIC F12 vs the dual VX-11 setup in the subwoofer forum: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449563/velodyn-vx-11-dayton-sub-1200-or-bic-f12.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #7 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:45 AM
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For a good start you could get a pair of Polk R300 speakers for $200, a Polk CS10 center speaker for around $100, and a Polk PSW505 subwoofer for $200.

That would be a nice start for $500 for 3.1. It would be about 400% better than the Phillips setup..lol.

If you don't want floorstanding speakers for some reason, the Polk Monitor 40 speakers cost about the same as the R300.

A pair of Polk Monitor 30 speakers for rear/surround use runs $100.
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post #8 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again, i'll take a look at those recommendations. When speakers list specs of watts needed, some I see saying 10-100w. I'm assuming that is watts per channel needed to drive it. Does that fluctuate between 6 ohm and 8 ohm?
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post #9 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:53 AM
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Well, the 10 watts is the recommended minimum needed to drive the speaker with that spec. The upper number is just how much power the speaker can handle. Receivers will generally put out a little more into 6 ohms than they will their rated specs at 8 ohms.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #10 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:55 AM
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It is best to avoid 4 ohm speakers with most receivers or amplifiers.

Power ratings on speakers tend to be pretty meaningless, except when you get into speakers for commercial use or outdoor concert use.

Don't pay any attention to them.
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post #11 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 08:58 AM
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I have a couple of questions, what can you tell us about your room and what you listen to?

Thanks.
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post #12 of 62 Old 01-15-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure its going in my living room, which at this point I cant remember the size feet wise, but its a mid sized rectangle living room. Mostly I'd be using it for TV, Blu-Ray, PS3, and AppleTV for movies. On occasion I may stream music which mainly is rock.
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post #13 of 62 Old 01-16-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I went to HHGregg today and the sales guy first tried to sell me a Polk Audio Kit, RM6750 5.1 setup. Are those decent?

Then he said I should avoid Polk and go to Klipsch speakers instead.

I said I'd like to buy two speakers now and perhaps a sub then save up for the center, and rears. He told me that because I have a recent receiver I cant hook up just two I'd always need a center. Sounds weird.

Anyway, what about that Polk Audio set RM6750, is it worth looking at? Are they better than what I got now?
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post #14 of 62 Old 01-19-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the bump, but can someone look at my previous post and give me a comment. I wonder if I also could use my Phillips speakers for the rear since they are 6 ohm...i dunno...new to all of this.
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post #15 of 62 Old 04-18-2013, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the bump. I still have yet purchased new speakers. Using what I have already can I connect my speakers to my receiver (without the sub as its not powered) and still have it work? My satellie speakers are 6ohm and seems like it would work. I'm just worried about my center channel.

Onkyo has this info available, does that mean it will work?


Amplifier Section
Tone Controls
Front L/R 90 W/Ch
Center 90 W
Surround L/R 90 W/Ch
3 ohm 160
4 ohm 125
8 ohm 85

Link: http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/model.php?m=TX-SR307&class=Receiver
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post #16 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the bump once more, can anyone assist me w/ this?
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post #17 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 12:21 PM
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You can hook the old speakers up to the new Onkyo. You can also use the passive sub like you did in the old system (I assume it takes speaker level inputs and redirects them back to the main speakers). Sounds like the salesman you talked to was full of BS. You can run modern receivers in stereo, 3 channel, 5 channel, etc. Just because you have extra amps in receiver doesn't mean they have to be used. Granted using a cheap HTIB speaker system with a new receiver in not optimal, but you can do it. The original version of the Pioneer speakers mentioned above can be purchased really cheap on newegg and even cheaper when they are running a sale on them. You could get the entire 5 speaker package for under $200 and use the rest to purchase a decent subwoofer.
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post #18 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 12:27 PM
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post #19 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response, I just got worried about using old 3 ohm speakers on this setup w/ out a sub right now. This way I can use the surround sound somewhat w/ a newer receiver and give me time to save up for some nicer speakers

The sub from the old system isnt powered, it just has a speaker wire connecting it to the HTS.
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post #20 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 12:57 PM
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Without knowing for sure what the amp was in the HTIB that originally drove those speakers, I think it is a pretty safe bet that the Onkyo has a much better amplifier stage...so if the other unit could do, I see no reason the Onkyo can't do it. I'm kind of skeptical about how they rated the Ohms on those speakers to begin with...the impedance isn't a constant, it varies throughout the spectrum. So that might be the minimum rather than the nominal load presented to the amp. Either way, I would be amazed if it caused you any issues at reasonable levels. (and I assume those speakers aren't really capable of unreasonable levels and you'll hear massive distortion before the limits of the amp are reached)
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post #21 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 12:59 PM
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I would not hook-up 3 ohm speakers to your Onkyo - your old 3 ohm speakers were made to work with the Phillips receiver.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #22 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

You can hook the old speakers up to the new Onkyo. You can also use the passive sub like you did in the old system (I assume it takes speaker level inputs and redirects them back to the main speakers). Sounds like the salesman you talked to was full of BS. You can run modern receivers in stereo, 3 channel, 5 channel, etc. Just because you have extra amps in receiver doesn't mean they have to be used. Granted using a cheap HTIB speaker system with a new receiver in not optimal, but you can do it. The original version of the Pioneer speakers mentioned above can be purchased really cheap on newegg and even cheaper when they are running a sale on them. You could get the entire 5 speaker package for under $200 and use the rest to purchase a decent subwoofer.

Well the front & rear are 6 ohm so i guess that is okay, the center is 3 ohms..is that still fine
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post #23 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Does this info help?

AMPLIFIER
Total output power:
- Home Theater mode: 1000 W
- FTC* output power: 510 W
Frequency Response: 180 Hz – 14 kHz / ±3 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: > 60 dB (A-weighted)
Input Sensitivity
- AUX In : 500 mV
- TV In: 250 mV
- MP3 Line-In: 500 mV
* (1% THD 1kHz)

RADIO
Tuning Range: FM 87.5–108 MHz (100kHz)
AM 530–1700 kHz (10kHz)
26 dB Quieting
Sensitivity: FM 22 dBf, AM 5000μV/m
IF Rejection Ratio: FM 60 dB, AM 24 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: FM 50 dB, AM 30 dB
AM Suppression Ratio: FM 30 dB
Harmonic Distortion: FM Mono 3%
FM Stereo 3%
AM 5%
Frequency Response FM 180 Hz–10 kHz / ±6 dB
Stereo Separation FM 26 dB (1 kHz)
Stereo Threshold FM 23.5 dB

DISC
Laser Type Semiconductor
Disc Diametre 12cm / 8cm
Video Decoding MPEG-1 / MPEG-2 /
/ DivX 3/4/5/6, Ultra
Video DAC 12 Bits
Signal System NTSC / Multi
Video Format 4:3 / 16:9
Video S/N 56 dB
Composite Video
Output 1.0 Vp-p, 75Ω
S-Video Output Y - 1.0 Vp-p, 75Ω
C - 0.286 Vp-p, 75Ω
Audio DAC 24 Bits / 96 kHz
Frequency Response 4 Hz–20 kHz (44.1 kHz)
4 Hz–22 kHz (48 kHz)
4 Hz–44 kHz (96 kHz)
PCM IEC 60958
Dolby Digital IEC 60958, IEC 61937
DTS IEC 60958, IEC 61937

MAIN UNIT
Power Supply Rating: 120 V; 60 Hz
Power Consumption: 180 W
Low Standby power: < 1 W
Dimensions:
435 x 55 x 367 (mm)
(w x h x d)
Weight: 4.04 kg

FRONT AND REAR SPEAKERS
System: Full range satellite
Impedance: 6 Ω
Speaker drivers: 3” full range speaker
Frequency response: 150 Hz – 20 kHz
Dimensions: 95.5 x 198.3 x 75 (mm)
(w x h x d)
Weight: 0.62 kg/each

CENTER SPEAKER
System: Full range satellite
Impedance: 3 Ω
Speaker drivers: 2 x 2.5” full range woofer,
1 x 2” tweeter
Frequency response: 150 Hz – 20 kHz
Dimensions: 435 x 93.5 x 67 (mm)
(w x h x d)
Weight: 1.26kg

SUBWOOFER
Impedance: 3 Ω
Speaker drivers: 203 mm (8”) woofer
Frequency response: 40 Hz – 150 Hz
Dimensions:
159.5 x 355.5 x 370 (mm)
(w x h x d)
Weight: 4.78 k
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post #24 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 01:17 PM
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Your old Phillips is not that powerful - your speakers have small drivers

The Onkyo is stronger than the Phillips.

I would really look at the Pioneer speakers

Do you really believe that you are going to keep the volume low?

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Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #25 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't plan on blasting it, I just would like to actually use the receiver. Some stuff came up that caused me not to be able to buy any speakers so now im back to square one. That is why I'm just honestly asking if this is even do able, or if I should just keep it on the shelf's its been since January
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post #26 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 01:22 PM
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As I said, based on the amp specs in the HTIB, it is a MUCH weaker amp that what you have in the Onkyo. There are several reasons they might be listing the center and sub as 3 ohm load...1)they might be in wired in series, thus presenting an actual 6 ohm load to the amp when hooked up as designed. 2) they might need to rate them at that impedance to get to the rated power...power goes up with an increased impedance load 3) They might be listing the minimum impedance rather than the nominal...since none of the other specs match on the amp match industry standards (I mean who rates amp power from 180hz to 14khz +/- 3db? on any "real" amp) it is impossible to know what any of the industry standard specs would be on the system. Since it is almost impossible to design a nominal 3 ohm speaker using the cheap parts in these systems that a budget HTIB could drive, I stick by saying that if the amp in the HTIB could drive it, the Onkyo will have no trouble driving it.
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post #27 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Audiophile2K, thanks for your help. All of this is somewhat greek to me so I appreciate the comments. I just wish I understood what it all meant. What I gathered is it should be good to go. LOL.
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post #28 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 01:43 PM
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Think of watts as horse power on a car, and think of impedance as torque. The HTIB amp specs say it has lots of horse power for very short bursts and only when driving downhill. It also says it has a lot of torque, but doesn't say if that torque last for more than a fraction of second. The Onkyo we know can pull a big load using lots of torque and also has lots of sustained horsepower over the entire trip (after all, the Onkyo is rated stable for 4 ohm loads)....so which one would you use to tow a heavy load over a long road trip full of hills? Even if the speaker ratings are correct and it is an actual 3 ohm load, I'd still rather drive them with the Onkyo.
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post #29 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 02:46 PM
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If you don't turn your stereo up too loud I don't see why that Onkyo can't handle your 3ohm center speaker. Receivers don't technically sense the impedance of the speakers. They indirectly sense it based on the current flow and or resultant heat caused by the increase in current flow. Impedance is the resistance to the flow of electricity. The lower the resistance, the higher the electrical current flow. The higher the current, the more heat will be produced. If the receiver cannot dissipate the excess heat properly then it will or should go into protect mode.

Looking at Ohm's Law (V=IR where V is voltage, I is current and R is resistance) you can see the current (I) is voltage (V) divided by resistance (I). I=V/R where I is expressed in amps (A), V is expressed in volts (V) and R is expressed in ohms. Adjusting your volume increases or decreases the voltage being sent to the speaker. So let's take some examples.

For an 8ohm speaker being sent 10V.

A=10V/8ohm
A=1.25A

For a 3ohm speaker being sent 2.4V

A=2.4V/3ohm
A=0.8A

So as you can see, if you play an 8ohm speaker really loud it will actually put more of a load on the receiver than a 3ohm speaker played at moderate levels. The 8ohm speaker is trying to draw 1.25A of current where the 3ohm speaker is only drawing 0.8A. The voltage numbers are just random values I picked just to illustrate a point. That point being that, generally speaking, any receiver can handle any impedance speaker. It's how loud you want to play those low impedance speakers is what will determine if the receiver can handle it or not.

So now you know. If your receiver keeps shutting down at high volumes then it's because it can't handle the current draw of your speakers. BTW, this is why you see some receivers with selectable speaker impedance settings. What that switch does is to reduce the current flow when you set it for lower impedance speakers thus protecting the receiver from going into protect mode. This also means you are potentially limiting the available power to your speakers.

Ok, I'm done with my blabbering.
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post #30 of 62 Old 10-02-2013, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow great responses. Thank you very much.
John82 is offline  
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