Help troubleshooting - is it acoustics? settings? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-16-2013, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

I just upgraded apartments to a loft-style condo. I transferred my old system am experiencing some funny issues with the sound quality in the new space (diagnosis below). I'm dumbfounded as to what it could be from - processing, acoustics, general speaker characteristics, speaker wire, something else? Seeing that I was in a small, well-dampened studio for so many years, I'm curious if I was ignorantly-lucky that I never experienced these issues with this setup, and now they're rearing their head that I'm in a bigger space? Or is it some new strange acoustics? Are the speakers spaced too wide? Are they not large enough for the room? I don't know, so here's some more info:

Diagnosis
Cable TV/Netflix from Xbox: I'm no audio guy, so the best way to explain it is that the highs are too shrill or too loud. For example, while watching a nature show, the sound of a lizard scurrying through the sandy desert is much louder than the narrator's voice. So we could actually assume the inverse - the it's actually the narrator who's too loud. But it's not, because all the other sounds and music match the narrator (for example) while the "effect" sounds like the lizard appear to be what's imbalanced.

Another example, watching Indiana Jones. The music, the dialog, everything seems fine, except the "sound effects." The sound of a punch, of a pile of books being knocked over, of someones pants swooshing as they walk - it's all louder than it needs to be. It almost feels "synthetic," like an audio version of the "soap opera effect." Yuck.

Laptop audio: curiously enough, the laptop's music is actually missing something, and it sounds like mids. It's missing "body."

Signal flow:
XFINITY cable box > HDMI to TV > optical from TV to receiver (CAB/SAT IN)> speaker cord to bookshelves and RCA/mono wire thing to sub. Sub is turned pretty low.

Receiver:
no processing ("Stereo"), bass and treble set to 12-o'clock

Equipment:
Yamaha RX-V1300 receiver
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v1300_black__u/?mode=model
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/124128/yamaha-rx-v1300-subjective-observation-review

Monitor Bronze B2 bookshelves (and matching center which I currently don't have setup)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1743919

Energy Encore-8 sub
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/energy-speaker-systems/8-powered-subwoofer-encore-8/prd_128274_1594crx.aspx

Apartment layout
Looking to lower the TV with DynamicMount's "Down'n'Out" solution
http://www.dynamicmounting.com/products/dno/downandoutmount.html


Sub is against the right wall in the nook across from the brown armchair


Setting for cable and xbox


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post #2 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 06:46 AM
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I'd call that room a sonic nightmare, with all those hard reflective surfaces. Read this, all of it, but the first thing I'd do is to get a wall to wall carpet in there.
http://www.realtraps.com/articles.htm

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post #3 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I'd call that room a sonic nightmare, with all those hard reflective surfaces. Read this, all of it, but the first thing I'd do is to get a wall to wall carpet in there.
http://www.realtraps.com/articles.htm

+1
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post #4 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 07:30 AM
 
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or buy a huge area rug.
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post #5 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the initial comments.

The rug we have there is temporary. It's for the bedroom and we'll be getting one that extends through the couch. And the grey armchair is going to be swapped with a larger love seat.

Happy to discuss acoustics more, but I'm also curious if these speakers are big enough for the room. Would a tower-type speaker better suit the layout?
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post #6 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ever- View Post

Thanks for the initial comments.

The rug we have there is temporary. It's for the bedroom and we'll be getting one that extends through the couch. And the grey armchair is going to be swapped with a larger love seat.

Happy to discuss acoustics more, but I'm also curious if these speakers are big enough for the room. Would a tower-type speaker better suit the layout?
Towers are best if you don't have a sub. If you do have a sub they don't add anything. On that point, an 8" sub is what I'd use with a computer. 6.5 loaded mains are probably adequate, but real bass requires at the least a 10 loaded sub, and two of them at that. But if you have neighbors in the building that could be a problem too.

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post #7 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Regarding towers, thank you, didn't realize that.

I do have neighbors, but I think the walls are concrete - the previous occupants said they played music pretty loud.

That said, I don't get too crazy (maybe on the weekends with a fun adventure movie). I prefer quality, albeit a tad less bass if needed. I keep the Energy 8in pretty low. But once again, I'm not an audio guy per se so even if I keep it on the quieter side, other than just being louder, perhaps a 10in sub offers different sonic quality than an 8in (in regards to a large room too)?

And to revisit the other question, assuming towers are out, do you think these MA Bronze B2's are large enough for the room?

Frequency: 42 Hz - 22 kHz
Sensitivity: 90 dB
Impedance: 6 Ohm
Power Handling (RMS): 100 Watts
Drive Units: 1x 6.5" MMP Mk2 Bass mid-range; 1x 25mm Gold Dome C-CAM tweeter
Cabinet Design: Front Ported, Bass Reflex
External Dimensions: 13.75"H x 7.25" W x 10" D
Weight (packaged): 30 lbs
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ever- View Post

Regarding towers, thank you, didn't realize that.

I do have neighbors, but I think the walls are concrete - the previous occupants said they played music pretty loud.

That said, I don't get too crazy (maybe on the weekends with a fun adventure movie). I prefer quality, albeit a tad less bass if needed. I keep the Energy 8in pretty low. But once again, I'm not an audio guy per se so even if I keep it on the quieter side, other than just being louder, perhaps a 10in sub offers different sonic quality than an 8in (in regards to a large room too)?

And to revisit the other question, assuming towers are out, do you think these MA Bronze B2's are large enough for the room?

Frequency: 42 Hz - 22 kHz
Sensitivity: 90 dB
Impedance: 6 Ohm
Power Handling (RMS): 100 Watts
Drive Units: 1x 6.5" MMP Mk2 Bass mid-range; 1x 25mm Gold Dome C-CAM tweeter
Cabinet Design: Front Ported, Bass Reflex
External Dimensions: 13.75"H x 7.25" W x 10" D
Weight (packaged): 30 lbs
If you're not finding an 8" sub to be woefully anemic I can't see why you'd need more than 6.5 mains.

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post #9 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Just found a post on another forum in reply to a similar situation. This is the answer I was tossing up when questioning my speaker size. Obviously the room's hard surface and open layout are the primary factors, but beyond that, do you think this statement holds water?

The biggest problem that I see is that the speakers are actually much too small for the volume of space that they are driving. All the extra space (to the right and left of the speakers and in the rest of the loft) significantly weakens the sound power at the listening position. You simply need bigger, more sensitive speakers which are capable of putting out more sound power for the volume of space that you have.

Also, what are your thoughts on creating a more near field experience? I've considered placing speaker stands at the fireplace's front corners, as opposed to side corners.
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post #10 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ever- View Post

Just found a post on another forum in reply to a similar situation. This is the answer I was tossing up when questioning my speaker size. Obviously the room's hard surface and open layout are the primary factors, but beyond that, do you think this statement holds water?

The biggest problem that I see is that the speakers are actually much too small for the volume of space that they are driving. All the extra space (to the right and left of the speakers and in the rest of the loft) significantly weakens the sound power at the listening position. You simply need bigger, more sensitive speakers which are capable of putting out more sound power for the volume of space that you have.

Also, what are your thoughts on creating a more near field experience? I've considered placing speaker stands at the fireplace's front corners, as opposed to side corners.
I think you should remove, if not that forum from your list of trusted sources, then the poster of that advise. rolleyes.gif
Nothing he said applies to mains, only to subs. As for the distance between your mains, since you don't have a center (I don't see one, anyway) they may work better closer together. Either way they should be toe'd inward.

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