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post #31 of 36 Old 01-21-2013, 06:47 PM
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I haven't seen a Dayton amp with Q control, which model do you have? Q control isn't the same thing as parametric equalizers. Rythmik looks like it has something similar, they have a damping switch, but it only has three settings, whereas the Hsu has a knob for finer increments. My guess is the Q control simply adjusts the output impedance of the amplifier, but I'm not an expert, you would get a much more informed opinion from the DIY guys.
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post #32 of 36 Old 01-21-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I haven't seen a Dayton amp with Q control, which model do you have? Q control isn't the same thing as parametric equalizers. Rythmik looks like it has something similar, they have a damping switch, but it only has three settings, whereas the Hsu has a knob for finer increments. My guess is the Q control simply adjusts the output impedance of the amplifier, but I'm not an expert, you would get a much more informed opinion from the DIY guys.

Q is a term that describes the shape of a frequency response curve. The bandwidth setting on a PEQ is a Q control. My Dayton Audio SA1000 has a single PEQ function. My Sansa Clip+ has a PEQ now that it's been rockboxed; I can adjust the Q on it and set the frequency point and gain for five different frequencies. The "bandwidth" setting for the PEQ on the Rythmik subs is Q control, even though it's not labeled as such. When you build a sealed subwoofer, you can change the Q by changing the box size--it changes the shape of the response curve. Putting damping material in a sub can change the Q. So Q can certainly be adjusted in more ways than one for subwoofer output.

However, I highly doubt that HSU's Q control is anything more than an EQ adjustment to the audio signal where the bandwidth and the amount of gain remains fixed. You can see in the sample graphs for the VTF-15H that's its changing the slopes like a PEQ Q adjustment. But if Dr. Hsu has said it physically tunes the driver in some other way as you are describing, I think that's great. But I haven't read anything about that on his website (but I could have easily have missed it). I would imagine if he was doing something very technologically advanced like you are saying, the website would say so. That would be pretty cool.

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post #33 of 36 Old 01-21-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Q is a term that describes the shape of a frequency response curve. The bandwidth setting on a PEQ is a Q control. My Dayton Audio SA1000 has a single PEQ function. My Sansa Clip+ has a PEQ now that it's been rockboxed; I can adjust the Q on it and set the frequency point and gain for five different frequencies. The "bandwidth" setting for the PEQ on the Rythmik subs is Q control, even though it's not labeled as such. When you build a sealed subwoofer, you can change the Q by changing the box size--it changes the shape of the response curve. Putting damping material in a sub can change the Q. So Q can certainly be adjusted in more ways than one for subwoofer output.
I'm sorry to disagree, but I believe Q describes more than mere response curve. In my reading, "Q" is the term used by speaker designers and engineers to describe how well damped a driver is. Go to that link, scroll down to "Mass and Compliance" and read through "Damping & Q". Low frequency response curve is just a consequence of Q, and Q is just a measurement of damping. You are talking about equalizing with PEQs, which, in my extremely limited understanding, is a different thing, it is just some electronic filters. Read that link, and if you are still not convinced, maybe we should ask one of the speaker designers that post here like Dennis Murphy, or maybe Dr. Hsu himself. Anyway, I am no expert, I could be wrong, and if I am, I look forward to being corrected. Anyway, I think the way Hsu is using a Q control and Rythmik is with their damping switch is more than just a filter.
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post #34 of 36 Old 01-21-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I'm sorry to disagree, but I believe Q describes more than mere response curve. In my reading, "Q" is the term used by speaker designers and engineers to describe how well damped a driver is. Go to that link, scroll down to "Mass and Compliance" and read through "Damping & Q". Low frequency response curve is just a consequence of Q, and Q is just a measurement of damping. You are talking about equalizing with PEQs, which, in my extremely limited understanding, is a different thing, it is just some electronic filters. Read that link, and if you are still not convinced, maybe we should ask one of the speaker designers that post here like Dennis Murphy, or maybe Dr. Hsu himself. Anyway, I am no expert, I could be wrong, and if I am, I look forward to being corrected. Anyway, I think the way Hsu is using a Q control and Rythmik is with their damping switch is more than just a filter.

Yes. They use Q values to talk about driver characteristics. The Theile Small parameters include various types of Q values, such as Qts and Qms. But I can almost guarantee that you aren't changing the physical characteristics of the driver with that Q tuning on the HSU. Google "parametric EQ Q control." Q control is a common term/function for parametric EQs. If HSU hasn't told you that the Q control is not a Q control as it is commonly understood, why would you assume it is something else?

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post #35 of 36 Old 01-22-2013, 12:35 AM
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Yeah, I get that the driver isn't somehow abnormal with a Q control, and I know what a Q is with respect to equalizer, but Q has a broad meaning, just look up Q Factor in wikipedia. I'm sure the technology is largely in the amplifier. Anyway, we have derailed this thread massively. I'll have to ask the Dr. to see what he says.
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post #36 of 36 Old 01-22-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Yeah, I get that the driver isn't somehow abnormal with a Q control, and I know what a Q is with respect to equalizer, but Q has a broad meaning, just look up Q Factor in wikipedia. I'm sure the technology is largely in the amplifier. Anyway, we have derailed this thread massively. I'll have to ask the Dr. to see what he says.

If you go back to my original statement, it was that I believe that the Q control is a frequency response adjustment and that it probably wouldn't make much difference if the sub is properly tuned already in the room. The idea that it might not make much difference seems to be confirmed by Gene Scala's original Audioholics review of the VTF-15H where he didn't find it to be very useful. Moreover, the graphs on on the HSU website do support that it does act to adjust the frequency response curve. If it is more than some kind of adjustable EQ filter, as I said, I'd be glad to hear it. But it would be better to have some confirmation of how it works since HSU doesn't describe how it works on their website, at least not that I can find.

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