need advice on a 5.1 set up with a 2500 budget - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 107 Old 02-13-2013, 09:40 PM
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Not sure i understand your last post but -12 is way too low .
Try to set sub under manual speaker settings to 0 then adjust vol to your liking.
Audussey not perfect then you'll see....
Try crossover on subs to full hz.,
Then Denon lfe setting to 80 or a little less.
Speakers to small and all speakers hz set at 60-80.

That's it just give it a shot why not just right down saved setting then tweak.



Cheers
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post #92 of 107 Old 02-13-2013, 09:48 PM
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Phases offsetting I thought you did it was mentioned earlier ...

Peace bud
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post #93 of 107 Old 02-13-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vm8444 View Post

Oh and glimmer check these settings:
Make sure all speakers are set to small
Lfe channel for sub to 80hz

The Denon LFE channel should always be set at 120hz. You are thinking the subwoofer/speaker crossover settings.

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post #94 of 107 Old 02-13-2013, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vm8444 View Post

Phases offsetting I thought you did it was mentioned earlier ...

Peace bud


i understand you im new to this and it alot of settings to do but yea thats one think i just did and what a differecne just changing the phase on one of the subs to the oposite of the other sub is like 3 x more bass im like wow its alot better it over powering the front speakers now so i will have to re do all the settings and they sound best on lfe on the crossover so i got to play with it a bit but that deffenttly boosted the bass by 3x thanks for the help and all my fronts are set at small and i have them at 60hz and the sub at 120 lfe
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post #95 of 107 Old 02-13-2013, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The Denon LFE channel should always be set at 120hz. You are thinking the subwoofer/speaker crossover settings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The Denon LFE channel should always be set at 120hz. You are thinking the subwoofer/speaker crossover settings.

cel4125 correct and i should set my sub crossover at lfe too correct ?? and what do you think about the -10 db setting from audessy should i bring it up a little ?
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post #96 of 107 Old 02-13-2013, 10:39 PM
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cel4125 correct and i should set my sub crossover at lfe too correct ?? and what do you think about the -10 db setting from audessy should i bring it up a little ?

Your LFE should stay on 120hz because that .1 channel in 5.1 is meant to go to the sub.

With the individual speaker/sub crossovers, use whatever sounds best to you as long as you don't go lower than what Audyssey recommends. When Audyssey picks your crossover, it sets it to where the speakers start to roll off. So that's the bare minimum. But many people go higher, and it really depends on your room, your speakers, and your listening preferences as to which is best.

As for the subwoofer channel level, optimally it should end up near 0db after Audyssey takes its readings plus whatever bump you might add to the subwoofer channel for extra bass (if any). If the subwoofer channel is a lot lower, it can help to turn the gain (volume) down slightly on the sub and run again. The reason is that if you have the subwoofer channel at say -10db, that means Audyssey has to attenuate the signal downward because the sub gain is a little high. Why not match the sub gain sensitivity to the receiver better so that Audyssey doesn't have to change the signal that much? Some people feel that they bass response of your sub improves slightly when it is better matched like that. Maybe it's my imagination, but my first time configuring Audyssey with that method, I thought the bass tightened up a little from my sub.

So if you know you want to run the subwoofer a little hot (say extra couple of db in bass volume), then you would rerun Audyssey adjusting the gain until you got to about -2db for the sub channel, then turn it up 2db. Otherwise, shoot for zero db.

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post #97 of 107 Old 02-13-2013, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Your LFE should stay on 120hz because that .1 channel in 5.1 is meant to go to the sub.

With the individual speaker/sub crossovers, use whatever sounds best to you as long as you don't go lower than what Audyssey recommends. When Audyssey picks your crossover, it sets it to where the speakers start to roll off. So that's the bare minimum. But many people go higher, and it really depends on your room, your speakers, and your listening preferences as to which is best.

As for the subwoofer channel level, optimally it should end up near 0db after Audyssey takes its readings plus whatever bump you might add to the subwoofer channel for extra bass (if any). If the subwoofer channel is a lot lower, it can help to turn the gain (volume) down slightly on the sub and run again. The reason is that if you have the subwoofer channel at say -10db, that means Audyssey has to attenuate the signal downward because the sub gain is a little high. Why not match the sub gain sensitivity to the receiver better so that Audyssey doesn't have to change the signal that much? Some people feel that they bass response of your sub improves slightly when it is better matched like that. Maybe it's my imagination, but my first time configuring Audyssey with that method, I thought the bass tightened up a little from my sub.

So if you know you want to run the subwoofer a little hot (say extra couple of db in bass volume), then you would rerun Audyssey adjusting the gain until you got to about -2db for the sub channel, then turn it up 2db. Otherwise, shoot for zero db.

great info and thanks for all the help in this long process it starting to sound really good and im going to drop the subs back and try to get to that -2 point and go from there and see how it sounds ,, the one thing i dont understand is why on certin singals does it set the auido to -7 or -4 db's it really kills the sound and fixing the subs seem to help but on a dts blueray compared to a hd dishnet work channel at -7 db auto by my denon its a night and day diffence i been reading thats its reference volume and you cant change it but id like too .. angain thanks for your help i love the ascend speakers and the svs subs finally im geting dialed in things are going well here cant wait to really gt it set up right now its half ass i got to run wires and cable lines and alot of stuff couldnt wait to hear it so i had to get it going
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post #98 of 107 Old 02-14-2013, 06:38 PM
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glimerman
nah I double checked with my sources 80's fine for lfe.



-5 -7 still?

you should do what I suggested.
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post #99 of 107 Old 02-14-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by vm8444 View Post

glimerman
nah I double checked with my sources 80's fine for lfe.

Really? Because you tried to start an argument about this with me over PM citing your Denon salesman as the source. If you hang around on AVS for awhile, you'll soon learn that audio company sales reps are NOT authoritative sources.

The LFE channel carries bass that is meant for the sub that is designed to increase the impact of various effects in a movie. If you set it to 80hz instead of 120hz, you may loose some of that bass effect. What is the audio science reason for your recommendation, or are you just continuing to parrot what you were told?

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post #100 of 107 Old 02-14-2013, 07:24 PM
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Recievers though play apart.
I would think whatever sounds best to your own ears is all that matters.

'80 hz is a THX specification. It's purpose is really to set a minimum standard for all public theatres to adhere. The word minimum should be stressed. This spec has since crossed over into the home theatre realm where many people use inexpensive HTIB's in which the speakers really aren't capable of much below 80hz.

Because of this many people believe this is the right way to setup when sonically, if you have at least moderate quality speakers with some low end capability, a lower crossover setting will likely sound better. Especially for music.

Your 80hz crossover, or wherever you have it set, is the point at which it redirects low frequencies from the main channels to the sub. LFE is by definition a separate mono channel that is sub specific and always goes directly to the sub."
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post #101 of 107 Old 02-14-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by vm8444 View Post

Recievers though play apart.
I would think whatever sounds best to your own ears is all that matters.

'80 hz is a THX specification. It's purpose is really to set a minimum standard for all public theatres to adhere. The word minimum should be stressed. This spec has since crossed over into the home theatre realm where many people use inexpensive HTIB's in which the speakers really aren't capable of much below 80hz.

Because of this many people believe this is the right way to setup when sonically, if you have at least moderate quality speakers with some low end capability, a lower crossover setting will likely sound better. Especially for music.

Your 80hz crossover, or wherever you have it set, is the point at which it redirects low frequencies from the main channels to the sub. LFE is by definition a separate mono channel that is sub specific and always goes directly to the sub."

So what are you trying to say here? Because I don't think you understand what you just posted. Looks like it came from someone else. What does this have to do with the LFE channel?

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post #102 of 107 Old 02-15-2013, 09:58 AM
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I spoke to tech guy at axiom audio
He said most bookshelves can play 80
So that settings fine
Lfe is bass frequencys then you want anything below that to be directed
To the sub.
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post #103 of 107 Old 02-15-2013, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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yea i looked at my speakers under specs and set my front and center at 60hz and my sournds at 80 htz and im running the lfe at 120 hz and so far this is starting to sound great
the acend cmt340s are
Typical In-Room Frequency Response 45Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB

and the cbm 170s book selfs are
Typical In-Room Frequency Response 53Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB

so i read a guide for about 5 hours lol and it said set your crossovers 10 to 15 hz higher then the speaker can go
so i think i did this right if not i could set them all to 80hz

the main probelm was no bass which changing that phaseing on one of the subs fixed that great i may have to dail it down a bit no im waiting to re wire all my speaks and going to run the set up again and adjust from there

all the reading i have done says leave the lfe at 120 and dont over dial the speakers so im happy with these settings for now
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post #104 of 107 Old 02-15-2013, 06:18 PM
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Glad to hear enjoy forget about speakers now enjoy the music .(sound)


I'm curious does it sound diff if you set the lfe lower for say a few minutes?


I'm a believer of a break in period for most av gear.
100-200 hrs so it should only get better.
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post #105 of 107 Old 02-17-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vm8444 View Post

Glad to hear enjoy forget about speakers now enjoy the music .(sound)


I'm curious does it sound diff if you set the lfe lower for say a few minutes?


I'm a believer of a break in period for most av gear.
100-200 hrs so it should only get better.

i havent touched the lfe setting ill try that a little latter and let you know im at work now
and thanks
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post #106 of 107 Old 02-17-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by vm8444 View Post

Glad to hear enjoy forget about speakers now enjoy the music .(sound)


I'm curious does it sound diff if you set the lfe lower for say a few minutes?

The definitive recommendation is to leave it on 120hz. For example, the AVS WELCOME TO THE AUDYSSEY MULTEQ FAQ AND 'AUDYSSEY 101'! guide points out you should not change it and explains why: see this section.

So why are you telling people to experiment with this setting, when you've admitted to me that you don't even understand what it does?

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post #107 of 107 Old 02-17-2013, 03:13 PM
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Glimer,

To vm's credit, he has some points... but he gets others wrong. Listen to Cel on this one.
I think both vm and glimer can benefit from reading through the links Cel posted, and re-read them if necessary. I'm certainly not going to go over it all here. Because it's right there. Read it a third time if you must.
not meant to ruffle feathers... but sometimes you see some stuff that just isn't right.

Joseph

What a long, strange trip its been....
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