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post #91 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 10:42 AM
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I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but are you plan on using the Studio 180s in the front? If so, they would be a mismatch with the ProCinema center. You need the matching center. And I'm not even sure that the ProCinema center is a good match for the SM350s. Hopefully you have verified that. Just because a center is made by the same manufacturer, that doesn't make it a good choice as a center with every speaker the manufacturer sells.

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post #92 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 10:43 AM
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I think you forgot about the front 3 having to match. You are trying to get audiophile quality on a budget without knowing what you are doing and come up with some goofy Frankenstein system. Since you have upped the budget, look at this. You will get excellent sound that will be plenty loud and you can add another sub and back speakers later. That is a really good sub and usually goes for $325.

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RF-42II-Theater-Bundle-FREE-Acoustech/dp/B005F6OFTQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_10

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post #93 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I think you forgot about the front 3 having to match. You are trying to get audiophile quality on a budget without knowing what you are doing and come up with some goofy Frankenstein system. Since you have upped the budget, look at this. You will get excellent sound that will be plenty loud and you can add another sub and back speakers later.

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RF-42II-Theater-Bundle-FREE-Acoustech/dp/B005F6OFTQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_10

Yeah much better set-up with actually a decent subwoofer.

Though given the size of the room I would suggect a system like this
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-Acoustech-PL-76-Theater-System/dp/B001UH9HFQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1359486651&sr=1-3&keywords=bic+pl-76
---OR---
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-Acoustech-PL-89-Theater-System/dp/B001UHDMXE/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1359486711&sr=1-2&keywords=bic+pl-89

Larger speakers will produce much better sound in that large room
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post #94 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

. . .come up with some goofy Frankenstein system.

HEHE. My first 5.1 system was like that. A pair of Paradigm Phantom V1s given to me by my brother; a B&W CC3 S1 center, a gift from the EX; and some old Bose 601s for the rear (also handed down from my brother years before). smile.gif

But you don't go out and intentionally buy a mismatched system. It's important for the front three to timbre match, which means either three exactly the same, or using the matching center channel from the same speaker line. And no sense in not matching the back with the front--not as big an impact if you don't--if you are buying them all at once.

The subs do not need to match in that way.

So I would go with the Def Tech SM450s for the front, the 350s for the back speakers, and then fine the matching center. Since you will be using subs, you could go without towers.

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post #95 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 AM
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I actually thought about the 76s but the Klipsch are better speakers and the pl200 is better than the h100. The 89s will put him well out of budget. He's coming from a poor htib that he said was ok but didn't have hdmi.

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post #96 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

HEHE. My first 5.1 system was like that. A pair of Paradigm Phantom V1s given to me by my brother; a B&W CC3 S1 center, a gift from the EX; and some old Bose 601s for the rear (also handed down from my brother years before). smile.gif

But you don't go out and intentionally buy a mismatched system. It's important for the front three to timbre match, which means either three exactly the same, or using the matching center channel from the same speaker line. And no sense in not matching the back with the front--not as big an impact if you don't--if you are buying them all at once.

The subs do not need to match in that way.

So I would go with the Def Tech SM450s for the front, the 350s for the back speakers, and then fine the matching center. Since you will be using subs, you could go without towers.
Reason Im a little frustrated is because I spent 1 1/2 hours trying to point him in the right direction and explained all that to him and he comes up with that. His original budget was $1000 and I suggested the Pioneer 52 system but then somebody threw those deftech speakers in and he fell in love with them. Now he's trying to design his whole system around some 8 year old speakers that don't match anything.

If you want to spend who knows how much time trying to find a center that will match those deftechs, you would probably be his hero. I don't have the time. Ive already got 2 hrs in this thread and are nearly where we started.

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post #97 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I think you forgot about the front 3 having to match. You are trying to get audiophile quality on a budget without knowing what you are doing and come up with some goofy Frankenstein system. Since you have upped the budget, look at this. You will get excellent sound that will be plenty loud and you can add another sub and back speakers later. That is a really good sub and usually goes for $325.

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RF-42II-Theater-Bundle-FREE-Acoustech/dp/B005F6OFTQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_10

I'd probably go with the Klipsch set as well especially with the sub being thrown in. I'd find somewhere where you can audition Klipsch speakers since they might be a bit " brighter " because of the horn tweeters. Nothing wrong with that since horns and ribbon tweeters are more accurate than dome tweeters. The tradeoff is a bump in treble. I have ribbon tweeters in my computer room and I like them because I can pick out individual instruments in an orchestra performance better than with my DefTech speakers, which are primarily for movies. The trapezoidal surrounds will be easier to flush-mount on a wall.

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post #98 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I actually thought about the 76s but the Klipsch are better speakers and the pl200 is better than the h100. The 89s will put him well out of budget. He's coming from a poor htib that he said was ok but didn't have hdmi.
yeah the issue is the guy has a room that is 23' x 50' and the Klipsch only have 4.5" drivers compared to the Bic's 6.5". His room is HUGE. Also those speakers can easily go to higher volumes

Also a PL-200 is just a $50 upgrade so the PL-76 5.1 system with a PL200 would be $1,276 shipped
http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=127&crid=291&cat_name=Search
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post #99 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 11:57 AM
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yeah the issue is the guy has a room that is 23' x 50' and the Klipsch only have 4.5" drivers compared to the Bic's 6.5". His room is HUGE. Also those speakers can easily go to higher volumes

Also a PL-200 is just a $50 upgrade so the PL-76 5.1 system with a PL200 would be $1,276 shipped
http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=127&crid=291&cat_name=Search
Is that $100 for shipping?
He thought the htib did ok so Im not thinking loud but rather quality. You definitely have a point though. And this is going to be almost exclusively for movies. The more I think about it I think I would go with the Bic also.

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post #100 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 12:05 PM
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There is another issue I have noticed. The Klipsch link I provided. It shows in the picture rs42ii but the description says rs41ii. I would want to get that straightened out before I ordered it. Damn Amazon!

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post #101 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but are you plan on using the Studio 180s in the front? If so, they would be a mismatch with the ProCinema center. You need the matching center. And I'm not even sure that the ProCinema center is a good match for the SM350s. Hopefully you have verified that. Just because a center is made by the same manufacturer, that doesn't make it a good choice as a center with every speaker the manufacturer sells.

yea i did forget about that, im actually going to the store today to demo some systems that they have, he said he can demo anything they have in store
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post #102 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 12:12 PM
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That sound distributors offer also says "Make an offer". They may come down to $1000 or throw in a pair of something so that he can have the whole 7.1 because that's what he's really looking for.

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post #103 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Reason Im a little frustrated is because I spent 1 1/2 hours trying to point him in the right direction and explained all that to him and he comes up with that. His original budget was $1000 and I suggested the Pioneer 52 system but then somebody threw those deftech speakers in and he fell in love with them. Now he's trying to design his whole system around some 8 year old speakers that don't match anything.

If you want to spend who knows how much time trying to find a center that will match those deftechs, you would probably be his hero. I don't have the time. Ive already got 2 hrs in this thread and are nearly where we started.

i appreciate the time spent, it was a honest mistake by me, had a couple of shots after i got off the forum last night and forgot some of the stuff that you pointed out, now im not gonna drink until i have the system built biggrin.gif
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post #104 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 12:19 PM
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No problem. Good luck and I hope you enjoy whatever you get. smile.gif

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post #105 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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No problem. Good luck and I hope you enjoy whatever you get. smile.gif

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/BIC-PL-76-Acoustech-Home-Theater-System/3935942/product.html

so this looks like a good deal for the set your recommending
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post #106 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ab Liquor View Post

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/BIC-PL-76-Acoustech-Home-Theater-System/3935942/product.html

so this looks like a good deal for the set your recommending

just looked again, out of stock
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post #107 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Reason Im a little frustrated is because I spent 1 1/2 hours trying to point him in the right direction and explained all that to him and he comes up with that. His original budget was $1000 and I suggested the Pioneer 52 system but then somebody threw those deftech speakers in and he fell in love with them. Now he's trying to design his whole system around some 8 year old speakers that don't match anything.

If you want to spend who knows how much time trying to find a center that will match those deftechs, you would probably be his hero. I don't have the time. Ive already got 2 hrs in this thread and are nearly where we started.

Oh, I think your description was apt. To have three pages of discussion and then end up with that kind of setup, seems like the OP just needs to give a budget and take a few recommendations, and then pick.

And he can research and ask in the Definitive Technology owners thread to find out the best center match for the Studio Monitors: http://www.avsforum.com/t/625807/definitive-owners-thread . May not be one other than another of the same since they are "studio monitors," which normally that use does not need a center.

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post #108 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 02:02 PM
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While the SM350/450 has no official matching center, Def Tech says the SLC 2002 has the same tweeter and works well (I don'[t know, as I have them as part of a 2.1 in my bedroom). Whether the Def Tech are 8 yr old or not is irrellevant, there are a good speaker and BECAUSE they are being discontinued, you can get a real nice price on them right now. but I agree, the OP has enough info now to just make a decision!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
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post #109 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 02:33 PM
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I agree that they are a good speaker. They just don't seem to be compatible with much else. Therefore the age is relevant. He would seem to have to make the entire system of them or use something else. If he just wanted 2.0 that would be an entirely different story. One option that I thought of if he is just totally in love with them even though he hasn't even heard them would be to just get another pair and use 1 as a center channel.

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post #110 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I agree that they are a good speaker. They just don't seem to be compatible with much else. Therefore the age is relevant. He would seem to have to make the entire system of them or use something else. If he just wanted 2.0 that would be an entirely different story. One option that I thought of if he is just totally in love with them even though he hasn't even heard them would be to just get another pair and use 1 as a center channel.

The design of the Studio Monitor 350, 450 and BP6b, BP8b, and BP10b are 8 years old but they were manufactured right up until the 8000 series came out last year. The studio monitors are meant to be used in a 2-channel setting but they can also be part of a direct-radiating surround system or used as surrounds for the BPxb series where using towers is not possible. Definitive continued to manufacture these to give those wanting direct radiating an option for small rooms. Personally, I think that if the OP wants to stick with DefTech, then I'd use BP8b or BP10b for the front and the SM350/450 for surrounds. The problem is going to be the center channel as the matching CLR 2000 and CLR2002 haven't been made for some time. The CLR 2300/2500/3000 came out after these around 2007. Rather than hunting down these center speakers it would be easier to choose a current speaker package, like that Klipsch package.

This is the general agreement on matching centers for DefTech bookshelf or 2-way BP towers.

SM350,BP6b, BP8b ==> CLR 2002, CLR 2500 ( powered 8" sub )
SM450,BP10b,BP20,BP30 ==> CLR 2000, CLR 3000 ( powered 10" sub )

Not sure if this has already been put forward, but HSU Research have complete speaker packages that are fairly reasonable. All their speakers have 6.5" drivers in a bookshelf form factor. No tower speakers available though.

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post #111 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ab Liquor View Post

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/BIC-PL-76-Acoustech-Home-Theater-System/3935942/product.html

so this looks like a good deal for the set your recommending
I already recommended
http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=127&crid=291&cat_name=Search

You can make an offer to them and see if they accept it. They have been known to play ball with members here
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Is that $100 for shipping?
He thought the htib did ok so Im not thinking loud but rather quality. You definitely have a point though. And this is going to be almost exclusively for movies. The more I think about it I think I would go with the Bic also.
Call them and talk to them as on Amazon they have free shipping I bet they will match it.

They use to frequently cut deals in the past
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post #112 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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One final opinion from you guys, sorry to be such a bother , demoed the procinema 600, 800, klipsch rf42, and a jbl forgot what model, realized that with kids floor standing speakers might not be a good idea, so I'm considering the 800. It sounded great, filled the store at half the volume, even had people coming to check it out and see what type of system it was. Klipsch sounded great also, a lot louder and more depth with the floor standing speakers.
He gave me the procinema 800 with 2 additional promonitor 800's, procenter 800 to complete 7.1 and prosub 800,with a denon avr 1912, and all cables need for $1200, or I can go with the rf42 system a Klipsh sw110 sub, and avr1912 for $1500, still haven't demoed the bic Pl76 system though,but kind of swaying away from the floor standing do to the size and again kids.

Again sorry in advance for being a pain , and thanks for all your help
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post #113 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 09:10 PM
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I'm curious what you paid. Overall a great system for an average living room. For your space....not so much. But while it wasn't money well spent, you were satisfied with the htib that you had and this will blow that out of the water. The first thing that I would add if you end up adding anything would be another sub. As long as you're happy with it that is all that matters though. Let us know your impressions after you get it hooked up.

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post #114 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 09:31 PM
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I and many other people here STRONGLY suggest against the smaller speakers you are looking at. Your room is HUGE and no joke. Assuming you have 7ft ceilings your room is 8,050 cu. ft. Not properly fill that room you need larger speaker set-up. The 8" def tech sub along with the 10" Klipsch would struggle to properly fill your room (the sound room at best buy is usually no bigger than 3,000 cu. ft total)

The Bic PL-76 sound similar to the Klipsch rf-62. If you might want to read this review from a guy that has both. http://www.avsforum.com/t/564482/bic-acoustech-vs-klipsch-a-non-bias-review OR http://audaud.com/2004/03/component-review-part-1-of-4/

Best of luck
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post #115 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Haven't purchased it yet, but the exact price was $1217 including tax, and he also recommended another sub to place on the other side of the room by the 7.1's, I'm going to try to get him to upgrade the 2 promonitor 800's for 1000's, at no additional cost hopefully, that might help out in the front mains, but will that be compatible with the procenter 800 or would I also have to upgrade that to the 1000?
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post #116 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
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Haven't purchased it yet, but the exact price was $1217 including tax, and he also recommended another sub to place on the other side of the room by the 7.1's, I'm going to try to get him to upgrade the 2 promonitor 800's for 1000's, at no additional cost hopefully, that might help out in the front mains, but will that be compatible with the procenter 800 or would I also have to upgrade that to the 1000?
The 1000's will still not be enough for you basement
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post #117 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I realized that when I demoed the systems, but also realized that with kids in the long run the floor speakers won't last me more then 6 months before the cone gets knocked in, or speaker tips over and breaks, or something bad happens, and I have to replace it, but at least he's giving me 30 days to demo it and return and exchange if I'm not happy. I should have the entire system hooked up in time for super bowl, so I will let you guys know for sure how it went, and again thanks for the quick replies and all the help everyone has provided.
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post #118 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Just took exact measurements of my basement, I was off with my original sizing estimate, but it is still large at 19'w x 40'L. But I know what you guys mean by bigger speakers to fill the room, worst comes to worst I can probably sell the system for the same price paid. The procinema 800 5.1 is going for $999 everywhere and that's not including the receiver or additional 2 promonitor 800 speakers
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post #119 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 10:05 PM
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Once you buy it and use it you'll be lucky to get $600 for it. Very lucky.

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post #120 of 162 Old 01-29-2013, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab Liquor View Post

I realized that when I demoed the systems, but also realized that with kids in the long run the floor speakers won't last me more then 6 months before the cone gets knocked in, or speaker tips over and breaks, or something bad happens, and I have to replace it, but at least he's giving me 30 days to demo it and return and exchange if I'm not happy. I should have the entire system hooked up in time for super bowl, so I will let you guys know for sure how it went, and again thanks for the quick replies and all the help everyone has provided.
I grew up with floor standing speakers as a young kid and never knocked them over and had my floor standees in the bar room of a frat house with countless parties and no drunk idiot knocked them over. Please don't go with the def techs as you will be missing out a lot 

The size of your room is still over 5,000 cu ft and if you look at what some manufacturers recommend for a room your size includes a larger 15" subwoofer use this as an example (http://www.hsuresearch.com/packages.html)
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