2.1 stereo bi wiring cutting out frequencies? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 01-29-2013, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Just got a new setup.. Polk subwoofer 10in, dsw550 pro, Polk tsi400 towers, 2.1 channel amp by Yamaha.

The stereo sounds amazing. However I'm noticing certain things are getting cut out.

Alice in chains unplugged. Sounds amazing but it seems to cut out some of the back ground guitar solos... The ones that sound as if they are on a nylon string.

Any ideas??
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post #2 of 48 Old 01-29-2013, 09:40 PM
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why are you bi-wiring in the first place?

use normal speaker wire and put the jumpers back in place between the upper and lower terminals and see what happens.

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post #3 of 48 Old 01-29-2013, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

why are you bi-wiring in the first place?

Beat me to it, and rather, what has bi wiring got to do with it? Probably just the speakers.

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post #4 of 48 Old 01-29-2013, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Just researched it on the Internet and they recommended it for enhanced sound. I'll try the jumpers and see. Overall though I'm very impressed... I also noticed it wasn't a lossless file. That might have something to do with it.
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post #5 of 48 Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 PM
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Bi wiring is mostly a waste of time IMHO but YMMV. What are you using for amplification? So you're not comparing the same source/file before and after biwiring? You just relying on your memory?

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post #6 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm relying on some small computer speakers with less bass presence. They are actually decent and produce a good sound. Reference that then reference the large setup. It's clearly missing. Like someone would do if they dropped a mixer level down. That's what it's like, someone lowering the mix level on those frequencies.

The amp has speaker a and speaker b. I connected a to the top terminals, and b to the bottom terminals of the speaker.

Could be the crossover internally in the speaker. However, that doesn't make sense as the ranges are 40-20k hz. But I'm thinking somehow that bi wiring has caused the amp to push it differently to the tower speaker components. We shall see. I'm also using high impedence selector.

I also toyed with the idea of the sub canceling out frequencies. I went old school and got on hands and knees to find where it sounded best and then placed the woofer there... Wow what a difference. The sun does have a room optimizer but the ol hands and knees hi fi old school method really does work. Sounds fantastic and smooth. It's just that one frequency band. Maybe I'm to critical but you pay money you want it all. Lol
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post #7 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortgageman View Post

Just researched it on the Internet and they recommended it for enhanced sound.
Who are 'they'? The only proponents of bi-wiring are wire manufacturers, oddiophools who believe their lies, and speaker manufacturers who don't want to lose a sale because they don't offer the option.
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The amp has speaker a and speaker b. I connected a to the top terminals, and b to the bottom terminals of the speaker.
Don't do that.

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post #8 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Project for the day... reinstal jumpers, run on speaker set A, and listen to alice in chains unplugged. Which is a great album by the way to listen to a full range acoustic recording, its always one of my tests....

Another question, i determined that the optimal subwoofer placement was 25 cable feet from the receiver. I have a long run of RCA but i had to put a RCA join in it, since the receiver just has one sub out. Do you think this will pose any signal, quality or timing issues? I can always go wireless, but i fear too many competing wireless frequencies in my house to rely on that.

thanks,

MM
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post #9 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortgageman View Post

I'm relying on some small computer speakers with less bass presence. They are actually decent and produce a good sound. Reference that then reference the large setup. It's clearly missing. Like someone would do if they dropped a mixer level down. That's what it's like, someone lowering the mix level on those frequencies.

The amp has speaker a and speaker b. I connected a to the top terminals, and b to the bottom terminals of the speaker.

Could be the crossover internally in the speaker. However, that doesn't make sense as the ranges are 40-20k hz. But I'm thinking somehow that bi wiring has caused the amp to push it differently to the tower speaker components. We shall see. I'm also using high impedence selector.

I also toyed with the idea of the sub canceling out frequencies. I went old school and got on hands and knees to find where it sounded best and then placed the woofer there... Wow what a difference. The sun does have a room optimizer but the ol hands and knees hi fi old school method really does work. Sounds fantastic and smooth. It's just that one frequency band. Maybe I'm to critical but you pay money you want it all. Lol

Or your smaller speakers emphasize that frequency band, possibly the larger speakers don't handle it well.

What do you mean sub is 25 cable feet from your receiver? How about in relationship to distance from your listening position? Gauge of the cable wire more relevant to length of cable itself. I've used two wireless subs for a while with no interference issues I can tell but don't have a lot of wireless activity in the house outside of my local wireless network and the occasional cell phone call.

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post #10 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortgageman View Post

i determined that the optimal subwoofer placement was 25 cable feet from the receiver. I have a long run of RCA but i had to put a RCA join in it, since the receiver just has one sub out. Do you think this will pose any signal, quality or timing issues?
The speed of an electrical wave through wire is about 690,000 feet per second. 25 feet of cable isn't going to cause any problems.

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post #11 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I got it at frys. It's actually much thicker than the more expensive one! Crazy. I'll get it all re wired tonight and report. So easy to over analyze. I have a L shaped couch I face the two towers, then to the right about 8 feet from middle of the couch the sub is off to the side where a table could be(opposite side of chaise). I thought it would sound like **** there, but that is the best location after many placement options.
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post #12 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Reworked them its marginally better. But still missing the range though not as badly while "bi wiring" still very happy it sounds amazing. Need to load up the lossless files though.
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post #13 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mortgageman View Post

Reworked them its marginally better. But still missing the range though not as badly while "bi wiring" still very happy it sounds amazing. Need to load up the lossless files though.

Did you run YPAO room correction on your receiver? It may help.

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post #14 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have that good a receiver lol I'm going to buy a more powerful one and see if it changes.
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post #15 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mortgageman View Post

I don't have that good a receiver lol I'm going to buy a more powerful one and see if it changes.

May not. Could be the speakers are not detailed enough. Entry level home theater speakers don't always reproduce everything with great clarity.

Which Yamaha receiver model do you have?

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post #16 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Rs300 2.1 stereo amp with polk tsi 400, dswpro550 sub.
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post #17 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 10:11 PM
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That's a nice stereo amp. More power isn't going to help; it would only help making it louder. And even then, if you go from 50 to 100 watts, you are only adding 3db of output. Takes 10db of additional output to be perceived as twice as loud. So don't expect a lot just from more power.

How are you inputting the sound into the receiver? Is it from the headphone jack of a phone? The motherboard audio line out from the back of a computer or from a laptop? If so, might be the analog signal is not that good. If you have a DVD player, trying plugging it up and see if you get better audio quality off a CD.

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post #18 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea it's coming from a soundcard off a CPU over my wireless network. Converted to RCA for line in. Most stuff still sounds really good. I will try my lossless files via my ps3 and see how they play.
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post #19 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:10 PM
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What make/model sound card? Or is it the built-in sound from the motherboard?

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #20 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just so frickin picky. Little gaps like this make me want to try a different set of tower speakers. Need to get my fix 100% I hate dissapointment when I shell out $$$. If its the speakers... Any ideas for replacements?
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post #21 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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It's just the onboard sound card. Prob a POS. diddnt think it mattered
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post #22 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:12 PM
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Trying to understand what specific device is providing that rca input to your receiver.

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post #23 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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It is the motherboards sound card headphone jack split to RCA. sound max looks like the driver. It's an older pentium 4 mobo.
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post #24 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:16 PM
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Definitely try the PS3 then. Not sure what its analog output is like, but bound to be better.

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post #25 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:17 PM
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You could also look into getting a usb DAC if the PS3 is not better.

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post #26 of 48 Old 01-30-2013, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I'll check the options. Thanks for input.
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post #27 of 48 Old 01-31-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortgageman View Post

Need to load up the lossless files though.

This is likely the whole source of your issue.

Garbage in - garbage out.

If you are using your computer as the source, and you are picky, why would you consider anything other than FLAC or some other lossless format:confused:

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post #28 of 48 Old 01-31-2013, 08:43 AM
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This is likely the whole source of your issue.

Garbage in - garbage out.

If you are using your computer as the source, and you are picky, why would you consider anything other than FLAC or some other lossless format:confused:

And you base that opinion on what? ABX listening tests have shown that people often have a lot of trouble discerning the difference between lossless and high bit rate mp3s, if they can even tell the difference. His problem is almost definitely the motherboard audio.

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post #29 of 48 Old 01-31-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I use 256 to 320 mp3s almost exclusively, the flac test showed the same problem. Buying a dac at lunch lol
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post #30 of 48 Old 01-31-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortgageman View Post

I use 256 to 320 mp3s almost exclusively, the flac test showed the same problem. Buying a dac at lunch lol

What's your budget for a DAC? Some people will say that they all sound the same, although I believe that the implementation of the DAC chip in the unit does make some slight difference as to SQ (others will disagree). It can be worth doing a little research before buying.

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