Bose LifeStyle V35 - 80" Sharp 3D HDTV - Basement Theater - $3500 Budget on Surround Sound - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 39 Old 02-05-2013, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

My wife has given me "free" reign over the basement... as long as it's clean. Meaning no visible cables or huge speakers, be it floor standing or large bookshelf speakers. With that said, here's what I have to work with.

My basement measures roughly 30'x25' with 9' ceilings. The TV and front speakers are about 20' away from the sitting area. For this size room, I think I'm pretty content on a 5.1 system. I visited a Bose store a few months back and sat through the V35 demo. I must say, I was quite enthused and walked away with my mind set on purchasing the system. An immediate "ignorant, ill-informed, mass-market consumer" that was willing to dump $3300 right off the bat. It sounded great and the speakers were small. Which was definitely a check mark in the wife approved column.

Then... there was avsforum. And boy do you guys hate Bose. And after reading the facts, man was I blind! And probably deaf as well. I think I've pretty much gotten over the Bose infatuation... now my dilemma... where do I go from here?

My setup will mostly be used for sporting events and movies. Also, a few gaming sessions (currently PS3) here and there. Here's what I'd like to accomplish:

Speakers - smaller than the standard bookshelf speakers; I'd like for the front left/right to be the same size as the rear left/right and the center speaker to be somewhat comparable in size. How do you feel about in-wall/in-ceiling mounted speakers? And is wireless even an option? I did check out the HIW-1 HSU Speaker. Any feedback on HSU and their products?

Receiver - very good quality with at least 5.1 and 3D capabilities. Interested in the Denon AVR1713. Will that be enough or do I need more oomph?

Subs - love the bass... Looked at the HSU VTF-2 MK4. Again, I don't know too much about their equipment or how it performs.

Just a lot of options out there that's a bit overwhelming and I just want a solid, great sounding system that I can enjoy for years to come.

I'd surely appreciate any feedback or suggestions you guys may have. I have a $3500 budget for the Surround Sound setup, mainly because of the Bose system, but if I could stay between 2-3000, that might help me achieve yet another check mark in the wife column!

Thanks for your time spent on reading this, and even more so, if you reply back.

Have a good one!
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post #2 of 39 Old 02-05-2013, 07:46 PM
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If small is a priority, look at the Cambridge audio minx system. All small systems , Bose or otherwise, have limitations and will struggle in a large room. However, the ca minx system seems to have more volume and better range than other sat systems. Don't get the ca sub, however- go with the hsu!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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post #3 of 39 Old 02-05-2013, 07:53 PM
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Btw, I don't think people hate Bose! Bose has a nitch, with people who want small unobtrusive systems that are easy to set up and would rather have the small form factor than great sound. For instance, I bought my mom a Bose wave cd player. Sounds pretty good and even my technilogical- impaired mother could operate it!
But, this forum has a lot of people who livelihood or major hobby is great sound quality...so with many of the Avs crowd, Bose is just gimmicky crap!

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post #4 of 39 Old 02-05-2013, 08:08 PM
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Not to stir up a flame war or anything but the reason why we all hate Bose is because they sell you very cheap to manufacture products for insane premiums and call it 'high-end'.

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post #5 of 39 Old 02-05-2013, 08:25 PM
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Elihawk? You're wrong. I hate Bose!tongue.gif

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post #6 of 39 Old 02-05-2013, 10:43 PM
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That is a pretty big room...do you plan on using the whole room for your set up?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #7 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 02:06 AM
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A good Marantz receiver about 1000
Paradigm Millenium One 5.0 ~1250
A pair of good subs about ~1300

Should be a LOT better than bose and should look good as well.
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post #8 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 04:43 AM
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Pokekevin is right. That is a very large room for small speakers. Your trade off is that you're not going to be able to get it very loud. If you want efficiency look into some horn loaded speakers with compression drivers. That will get you some volume without having to have massive amounts of power to drive them.

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post #9 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

Thank you all for your input and recommendations. I'll be sure to do a little research on them all.

As for the room size, I'm thinking of utilizing a 20'x15' space for the setup. Is that adequate for a 7.1 setup or should I stick to the 5.1?

Thanks again!
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post #10 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 06:32 AM
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What if you only spend like 2500, will she let you get speakers that are visible and actually sound good? Or are you still stuck with baby speakers?

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post #11 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 07:52 AM
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20 feet from the TV? eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

You could (should) move the seating up to about 10-12 feet for the best viewing affect. I sit about 9 feet from a 70 and would have no problem with an 80 from the same distance.

Sitting closer would also give you more volume out of whatever speaker setup you end up with.

For $3500 you could put together a pretty nice system.

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post #12 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 08:00 AM
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I sit about 6-8 feet from a 60". You really need to consider moving, at least, a little bit closer.

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Of course, I got it modified with the TK-427, which cheeks it up another, maybe, 3 or 4 quads per channel.
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post #13 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 08:28 AM
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30 x 25 x 9 is 6750 cu. ft or your 20 x 15 x 9 is 2700 cu. ft (but is this smaller area blocked off from the rest of the basement? If not soundwaves, especially bass waves, travel and will be eaten up in the other 4000 cu ft).

Sorry but small speakers are NOT going to cut it.

I priced out some bundles for you to look at
4x HSU HIW-1 In-wall Speakers = $629 shipped
1x HSU HIC-1 Mk2 Center Channel = $269 shipped
1x HSU VTF-3 Mk4 Subwoofer = $798 shipped
Total cost is $1,696

Or if you don't want to go with In-wall speakers as they sometimes limit the placement capabilities and ability to take to a new home.

The HSU Hybrid 3 5.1 package is $1598 shipped

With your budget and room size I would go with the Hybrid 3 package and spend an additional $500 on a receiver from Denon, or Onkyo and you will have an amazing jaw dropping set-up to keep you happy for years to come
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post #14 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 08:51 AM
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From what I understand in the OPs case, He has to have small speakers- WAF. Quote "Speakers - smaller than the standard bookshelf speakers" . So given that his wife wants small speakers, only the CA Minz and Paradigm M. one systems met the OPs critieria- both will sound way better than TV speakers or the Bose! However, I agree that those systems will strugle in a room that sized !

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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post #15 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

From what I understand in the OPs case, He has to have small speakers- WAF. Quote "Speakers - smaller than the standard bookshelf speakers" . So given that his wife wants small speakers, only the CA Minz and Paradigm M. one systems met the OPs critieria- both will sound way better than TV speakers or the Bose! However, I agree that those systems will strugle in a room that sized !
He wants small speakers but his Wife gave him free reign. Thats why I made the suggestion I did.

Eli, we both no while these other smaller options are better than Bose, one listen to a friends system who uses actually speakers you'll be looking for an upgrade. I know I fell into that problem.

The HSU bookshelves aren't too big. Sure at first glance they might be but one action packed Blu-ray you will over look the size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgbnc2012 View Post

My wife has given me "free" reign over the basement... as long as it's clean. Meaning no visible cables or huge speakers, be it floor standing or large bookshelf speakers. With that said, here's what I have to work with.
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post #16 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 10:22 AM
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The HSU bookshelfs are a really good, budget speaker, I agree!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
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post #17 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Rob/Eli,

Thanks very much for your input! From what I've read, the HSU company resides in California... I'm on the East Coast; Georgia to be exact. I had only heard of HSU through this website, but all the reviews have been pretty stellar. Granted, by no means am I anywhere close to having the knowledge most of you guys have.

If that's the way to get more bang for the buck, I'm sure I can get creative on hiding or disguising the speakers. Someone also suggested dual subs. Do you think I'll need it with the HSU VTF-3 MK4? Or will it be overkill?

What's a good receiver to handle this?

I wish I could give you guys a drawing of the basement layout. It's almost h shaped. The total space is 25x20 with an 8x10 room attached. The 8x10 room (or the top left hand portion of the h) is where the TV, center/front speakers will be located and the viewing area, including the 8x10, room will be approximately 30x10. So more of a long narrow space. The rest of the basement will be open aside from a small bathroom in the opposite corner of the TV.

The seating will be near the left wall leaving roughly 15 feet of open space between the seating and the right wall. I know this can cause some issues with the sound as location plays a big role during setup.

Should I stick with 5.1 or go with the 7.2? And should I mount the right mid/rear speakers the same distance from the seating area as the left or should I go all the way to the right side wall?

Geez... what a mess. Hopefully that all makes sense.

Basically, I just want a loud, crisp sound with a lot of oomph!

I appreciate it, fellas!
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post #18 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 10:40 AM
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Both Hsu and svs, ID only companies, have smallish speaker packages and both have great subs!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
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post #19 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 10:46 AM
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You've already gotten good suggestions so I am just going to back the guys above up. If the speakers just need to be un-obtrusive try to shoot for in-wall speakers with Bookshelf speaker sized drivers. perhaps do a 7.1

If someone did not already mention, spend the majority of the $3500 on speakers/sub.

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post #20 of 39 Old 02-06-2013, 03:09 PM
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Hi there bgnc

A lot of very good suggestions here that Bose has no business even being mentioned or considered in the same breath.

There's a lot to choose from maybe you can focus on size or type of speaker aesthetics
That the wife will freely endorse in HER house.


There's inwalls side inwalls rear Inceiling too

I'd look at this page the lcr wbt 150 I've installed with Marantz 6007 or 5007 that sound wonderful.(Inceiling rears with 2 subs for this one ht I did.)

Go small on subs (waf) though large double up.

http://www.monitoraudio.ca/products/applications/in-wall/


Focal dome sound awesome.5.1 or custom add 2 speakers.
Similiar round more affordable speakers from orb audio.


Canton cinema 70 5.1 but just add to it (pair)are amazing for the money.
(Same size as Blose)



Enjoy the journey audition !




theaudioguy.ca
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post #21 of 39 Old 02-07-2013, 08:31 AM
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post #22 of 39 Old 02-07-2013, 02:55 PM
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Based on everything I have read in this thread I would recommend in-wall speakers to you. They allow you the WAF you are looking for and will allow you the best ultimate placement. There are some good bookshelf speakers in this thread, but if you are going to have to "hide them" you may end up with poor placement (tweeter on main left, right, and center, should be close to ear level when seated at the main seating position and you want optimal distance between speakers). If in-wall speakers allow you to do that and allow you to get larger drivers you should go in that direction. I would stick with in-wall speakers that have engineered enclosures vs open backed speakers that lead to in-wall speaker loss and bleedthrough:

http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_prevent_audio_loss_with_in_wall_speaker_systems

- Deftech UIW RLS III (about $1000 for left, right, and center)
- Episode (you will need to find a local authorized dealer)
- Speakercraft (http://www.avhifi.com/shop/speaker-craft-aim-7-mt-in-wall-speakers.html) these have the backer boxes.

I own the Deftech UIW RLS II speakers and Speakercraft AIM in-wall speakers and the Deftech's, IMHO, are a noticeable step up in quality

All of them should be within your budget and you should focus your budget mostly on your mains and subwoofer and less of your budget on surrounds.

You will 100% need a good subwoofer to handle bass response under 60-80hz depending on the design, but crossing them over at 80hz to start with is a good starting point.

I would spend no more than $400 on a receiver and that would leave you plenty for speakers and sub. For the subwoofer the Hsu VTF 2-MK4 or PSA XV-15 would be a great choice.
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post #23 of 39 Old 02-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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For all those recommending in-wall speakers, don't forget to deduct the cost of installation from the available budget.

David
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post #24 of 39 Old 02-07-2013, 04:04 PM
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All you really need is a stud finder, and a drywall knife.

- Find the space between the studs where the speaker will be mounted using the stud finder and make marks with a pencil.
- Use the provided cutout template (provided by the manufacture) by taping it to the wall between the studs in the desired position and with a pencil trace the template provided by the manufacturer
- Use a drywall knife to cutout the template as marked on the wall.
- Wire the speaker and then install in the aforementioned hole you just cut in the wall.
- Using a screwdriver to turn the mounting brackets to lock into the wall.

My neighbor is a finance guy and is about as non-DIY as you can get. I came over and had him follow the above and he installed all the speakers himself with no problem. The speaker will cover any imperfections in the cutout within reason. Easy peasy smile.gif

If you are not comfortable pulling speaker wire through the wall you may have to hire that out, but that is also really straighforward and $20 wire snake at Home Depot is all you really need.
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post #25 of 39 Old 02-07-2013, 06:12 PM
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You started a thread in the DIY section and then you seemed to abandon it so I'll repost here:

Since you're in the DIY section are you perhaps thinking about building speakers? These will blow anything out of the water at 4-5X the price:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/karma8-kit.html

Or as suggested you could do a false wall with three large speakers behind the screen and use for surrounds four of the smaller ones I linked to above. That will easily fill your large space and not require a whole lot of power.

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post #26 of 39 Old 02-09-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Update:

Hey guys... thank you all very much for your input, suggestions, and insight on my setup. I greatly appreciate it.

I ended up going with the following amateur setup (comments/concerns are welcome) just don't bash me too hard! At least I strayed from the Bose system, right? wink.gif

6x Polk RC85i's for front, mid, and rear.
1x Polk 255C-RT for the center speaker
2x Polk DSW Pro550 wi subwoofers
1x Denon AVR-2313CI

I'd like to pick your brain once more to hopefully get the full effect of my setup... would you guys recommend the use of an LFE and if so, any particular models? I'd really like to stay around $200 if possible. $300 at the most.

Thanks again... have a great weekend!
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post #27 of 39 Old 02-09-2013, 11:20 AM
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Only thing I would personally change is the Polk DSw550 subwoofers to something from another internet-direct company. If you paid the current $540each for the Polk DSW 550 there are much better option from internet direct companies like HSU or SVS, or Rhythmic

LFE's refers to Low Frequency Effects, thats what subwoofer are for. Use a shield subwoofer cable to hook your subwoofers up to your receiver and run Audyssey. It will calibrate the subwoofers to your room
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post #28 of 39 Old 02-09-2013, 11:55 AM
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Crazyrobs correct ,

I'm not sure if the large speakers or bookshelves .
If set to large for floortanders you can leave them set to large then crossover on sub to 60-80
If bookshelves after audissey calibrated is set.

Make sure speakers are all set to small.,
Then turn crossover on back of all sub all the way to full.
set Denon to 80hz lfe.

Then on levels you may have to increase the db setting for sub to 0.

For speakers I tend to increase all levels by approx 7 db for all speakers evenly after audissey set up .
For e.g.

Front left set to +2
Center set to +1
Front right set +3

Etc

Set fl to +9
Set c to + 8
Set fr to +10

Etc


Take care

Oh on blu ray turn off secondary audio
Set video to 1080 p /24
Digital audio to dts / hd

take care

theaudioguy.ca
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post #29 of 39 Old 02-09-2013, 12:25 PM
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bgbnc2012

You are not deaf, like most people if you do not know a certain sound is suppose to be there you will not miss it.
It's a lot like saying if she/he doesn't know it will not hurt her/he.

Lots of good sugestion above.

You do have a big room and no way the BOSE will fill that space.
As for your demo, BOSE always place speakers near you and use Q CD (a CD specialy made to make the frequencies they can do to sound higher and getting rid of what would make them sound bad).

All the Best

Ray

PS I don't have sugestion for you since I am more of towers and big center and surronds.
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post #30 of 39 Old 02-09-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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crazyrob,

So far I've only purchased one of the Polk subs for $250 new. Haven't pulled the trigger on the 2nd one. I'm open to the Internet-Direct companies. I'd like to stay below a $1000 if possible, which I think rules out HSU's dual line. Unless it's just completely worth the money. I'm very interested in the SVS Dual 1000's. Suggestions on ported or sealed? It'll be placed on carpet and used mostly on Blu-ray movies/gaming.

vm8444,

The center, front, and back speakers are in-wall. The two mid's will be mounted in the ceiling. Thanks for those #'s! I'll be sure to tinker with mine and see what kind of results I get.

Thanks, fellas!
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