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post #1 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I have a Jamo Sub 650 paired with a Denon 2113ci AVR. I am currently running a 3.1 set up with 2 Def Tech 800 speakers along with a center channel. The only time I am getting anything from the sub woofer is when I am watching TV or a movie. I get nothing out of the sub when listening to music. my sub is connected to the AVR via the LFE jack. I ran the Audyssey set up and still nothing. The back of the sub has 3 knobs on it which are 1) Boundary Gain - set to off (2) phase - set to 0 and (3) crossover - set all the way up. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to go back into settings and switch the setting from LFE to LFE + main? Thanks for the help in advance.
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 10:50 AM
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check that your speakers are set to small, so bass is properly directed to the sub.

What a long, strange trip its been....
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post #3 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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check that your speakers are set to small, so bass is properly directed to the sub.

They are.
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 10:59 AM
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The Def Tech 800 is rated to go down to 57 hz.

IMO the best sound will be available if you turn off the receiver speaker management settings completely OFF and let your front speakers run full-range, and just naturally roll of below 60 Hz.

Then set the subwoofer's control to 60 Hz (or maybe 70), so that it will handle the lower range. Adjust the subwoofer f setting and the subwoofer volume until the front speakers and sub complement each other the best.

You have nothing to lose by trying it; see how it works.

I think you will have much better results this way.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 11:06 AM
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Wouldn't it also depend on the DSP and it's config.

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post #6 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 11:10 AM
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You didn't say you had a Digital Signal Processor in the system.

???
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 11:12 AM
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what frequency do you have them crossed over @ now?

What a long, strange trip its been....
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 11:25 AM
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Subwoofer setting needs to be set to LFE+Main in subwoofer settings Subwoofer will not kick on in stereo mode if just set to LFE.
Page 116 in manual
Bass
Set subwoofer and LFE
signal range playback.
Subwoofer Mode : Select low range signals to be reproduced by
subwoofer.
• LFE : The low range signal of the channel set to “Small” speaker size is
added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.
• LFE+Main : The low range signal of all channels is added to the LFE
signal output from the subwoofer.
• “Subwoofer Mode” can be set when “Speaker Config.” – “Subwoofer”
(vpage 115) is set to “Yes”.
• Play music or a movie source and select the mode offering the strongest
bass.
• Select “LFE+Main” if you want the bass signals to always be produced
from the subwoofer.
NOTE
If “Front” and “Center” for “Speaker Config.” are set to “Large”, and
“Subwoofer Mode” is set to “LFE”, no sound may be output from the
subwoofers, depending on the input signal or selected sound mode.
LPF for LFE : Set LFE signal playback range. Set this when you want to
change the playback frequency of the subwoofer.
• 80Hz / 90Hz / 100Hz / 110Hz / 120Hz / 150Hz / 200Hz / 250Hz

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post #9 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

what frequency do you have them crossed over @ now?

100
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntculenuf View Post

Subwoofer setting needs to be set to LFE+Main in subwoofer settings Subwoofer will not kick on in stereo mode if just set to LFE.
Page 116 in manual
Bass
Set subwoofer and LFE
signal range playback.
Subwoofer Mode : Select low range signals to be reproduced by
subwoofer.
• LFE : The low range signal of the channel set to “Small” speaker size is
added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.
• LFE+Main : The low range signal of all channels is added to the LFE
signal output from the subwoofer.
• “Subwoofer Mode” can be set when “Speaker Config.” – “Subwoofer”
(vpage 115) is set to “Yes”.
• Play music or a movie source and select the mode offering the strongest
bass.
• Select “LFE+Main” if you want the bass signals to always be produced
from the subwoofer.
NOTE
If “Front” and “Center” for “Speaker Config.” are set to “Large”, and
“Subwoofer Mode” is set to “LFE”, no sound may be output from the
subwoofers, depending on the input signal or selected sound mode.
LPF for LFE : Set LFE signal playback range. Set this when you want to
change the playback frequency of the subwoofer.
• 80Hz / 90Hz / 100Hz / 110Hz / 120Hz / 150Hz / 200Hz / 250Hz

I will give this a shot. By setting it to LFE + main won't this cause "double bass" and the sound to be distorted?
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post #11 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboys88 View Post

I will give this a shot. By setting it to LFE + main won't this cause "double bass" and the sound to be distorted?

No.

LFE is the .1 channel in 5.1 on your bluray discs that is special effects for movies and other things not meant to be played on your other speakers. MAIN is the lower frequencies that would go to your speakers from the 5.0 channel below where you have set the crossover point.

However, I think with Denon receivers if you have the mains set to small, this automatically happens. But it doesn't hurt to try.

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post #12 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The Def Tech 800 is rated to go down to 57 hz.

IMO the best sound will be available if you turn off the receiver speaker management settings completely OFF and let your front speakers run full-range, and just naturally roll of below 60 Hz.

Then set the subwoofer's control to 60 Hz (or maybe 70), so that it will handle the lower range. Adjust the subwoofer f setting and the subwoofer volume until the front speakers and sub complement each other the best.

You have nothing to lose by trying it; see how it works.

I think you will have much better results this way.
WRONG!!!! The crossover should be set to 100hz(as per Definitive Technology's recommendation...)
http://www.definitivetech.com/products/promonitor-800#specs

Why does this guy even try to give advice if he is just going to be wrong....
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

No.

LFE is the .1 channel in 5.1 on your bluray discs that is special effects for movies and other things not meant to be played on your other speakers. MAIN is the lower frequencies that would go to your speakers from the 5.0 channel below where you have set the crossover point.

However, I think with Denon receivers if you have the mains set to small, this automatically happens. But it doesn't hurt to try.
x2
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post #13 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 09:52 PM
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ok... taking a deep breath...

nt, cel, and crazy all are right. to a degree.mostly...

so, you should be fine with just the LFE setting, based on nt's post #8 : LFE : The low range signal of the channel set to “Small” speaker size is
added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.

what it doesn't say ... in this setting, the re-directed lows do not also play through your other speakers.


LFE+Main : The low range signal of all channels is added to the LFE
signal output from the subwoofer.

what id\t doesn't say... those low notes also play through your main speakers, as well as your subs. You don't want this. It is similar to the "double-bass" setting, and it is ... not really what you want. Maybe. That setting may sound better in your room, but IMO that's an indication of other problems. So it could act like a 'band aid" in certain instances, under certain listening conditions. And if that solves your problem... you're happy with the results.. then stop.. you're done.

But it's not really the best solution... again, IMO

the LFE channel is not only on blu-rays, but also on all dvd's with a dolby or dts X.1 soundtrack. It is the Low Frequency Effects channel. Set the LPF of LFE at 120 . That's different than the crossover chosen between your speakers and your sub(s).

so recapping... setting your system to LFE, (like you have it already) will allow you to replay that channel, via the subwoofer, like it should, as well as setting a crossover of 80 hz re-directts any low frequency content in the other ( not the LFE) channels to the sub. This is what you want.

finally, I wouldn't follow Def-Techs recommendation like Crazy quoted, without some ... qualifiers. As listed above (by Commys...) they list a -3 db point at 57hz . BUT they recommend crossing those same speakers over @ 100hz? Makes no sense at all. Unless they can't reproduce below that... wink.gif

The best answer is always what sounds best to you, but knowing how the different parts interact, and exactly what each setting does, can not be underestimated.

Greater minds than mine will surely chime in.

Joseph

What a long, strange trip its been....
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post #14 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

WRONG!!!! The crossover should be set to 100hz(as per Definitive Technology's recommendation...)
http://www.definitivetech.com/products/promonitor-800#specs

Why does this guy even try to give advice if he is just going to be wrong....

I've been wondering that myself. Even if the speakers weren't Def Tech's needing the higher crossover, turning off all the bass management is just a bad idea for getting the most out of an HT setup.

Then there is trusting Definitive Technology's frequency range specs. Everyone knows that they'll specify a low frequency point where the bass is no longer useful, where it could be -15db down. Purposely misleading with their specs.

Your questions are answered:
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post #15 of 16 Old 02-08-2013, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboys88 View Post

Ok, I have a Jamo Sub 650 paired with a Denon 2113ci AVR. I am currently running a 3.1 set up with 2 Def Tech 800 speakers along with a center channel. The only time I am getting anything from the sub woofer is when I am watching TV or a movie. I get nothing out of the sub when listening to music. my sub is connected to the AVR via the LFE jack. I ran the Audyssey set up and still nothing. The back of the sub has 3 knobs on it which are 1) Boundary Gain - set to off (2) phase - set to 0 and (3) crossover - set all the way up. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to go back into settings and switch the setting from LFE to LFE + main? Thanks for the help in advance.

Trying to keep it to the original post...

Are you using a Direct or Pure listening mode for music? These both will bypass the sub ( as far as Onkyo goes... I dunno 'bout Denon fer sure... but I think it's the same) These are the setting you would use with VERY capable main L and R speakers, when you don't want to use a sub at all. You, and I, don't have those. smile.gif

Using Stereo should enable the sub as well as the main L and R speakers. The settings within your Denon, as well as your Audyssey settings, are different than the 'listening modes' you use.

Joseph

What a long, strange trip its been....
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post #16 of 16 Old 02-09-2013, 09:11 PM
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doing the lfe + main will allow the sub to play on stereo audio. just doing lfe the sub will only kick on with audio tracks with a .1 (2.1,3.1,5.1, 7.1) I have setup several denons, and the mains will stay at what ever crossover point you set. it will just allow the sub to kick on with all audio. my older pioneer was this way to.
so if speakers are set to small x-over at 80hz your mains will still not play below the x-over slope set by the receiver

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