SO...narrowed down to Klipsch and PSB. Now which one? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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So here are the systems I have it narrowed down to:

1)Klipsch : Reference II RB-51's fronts, RC-41 center, RS -41's surrounds
2)PSB : Images B5 fronts, C4 center, B4 surrounds

All will work in my setting, with my Yamaha V765 receiver and BIC F12 sub. Center channel has to be small to fit on the mantel and for the WAF. I would love a HSU system, but they don't have a small (under 6" tall) center channel. Room is 15x15x9. Back opens to the kitchen. Couch is against the rear wall near the doorway to the kitchen. Any thoughts? Please remember, the center MUST be small, and the fronts MUST be under 13"s and the surrounds MUST be under 11"s. My receiver will work with the 4ohm speakers. Trying to keep the price under $1500 for the 5 speakers. Any other thoughts or suggestions? I want sound quailty, not quantity. Watch TV and movies 95% of the time. Very little music.

This thread originally included Martin Logan Motion series, and Aperions, but I am now down to a choice between the 2 listed.

~Shaun
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post #2 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 08:40 AM
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For TV and movies the dynamics of the Kipsch are hard to beat. Great HT speakers. If more music was involved I would vote for the ML setup since the center you have for the Aperion is not a direct match and I like the sound of the ML. They are a nice compromise for both movies and music. The tweeters are nice and detailed and they have good dynamics as well.

And you might want to get the couch off the back wall.

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post #3 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 09:12 AM
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If you can audition them give the following a try:

PSB Image B5 / 6 for mains (6 might be a tad too big based on your stipulations) Image C4 / 5 (I'd go with the 5 personally, but again, it is a hair over 7" tall where as the 4 is 5 / 38") and the Image B4's for rears.

For full measurements go here:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/121003090316-PSB-Image-Specs_English_Sep17.pdf

The imagines mini series would work too for sure but might be out of your budget.

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post #4 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I am buying anything substantial with going with Imagines over the Images?

~Shaun
Yamaha RX-V765 / PSB B5's Fronts / PSB C4 Center / Micca R-65 In-Ceiling Rears / BIC F12 Sub
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post #5 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotech View Post

If you can audition them give the following a try:

PSB Image B5 / 6 for mains (6 might be a tad too big based on your stipulations) Image C4 / 5 (I'd go with the 5 personally, but again, it is a hair over 7" tall where as the 4 is 5 / 38") and the Image B4's for rears.

For full measurements go here:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/121003090316-PSB-Image-Specs_English_Sep17.pdf

The imagines mini series would work too for sure but might be out of your budget.

I own the B6/c5 combo and wholeheartedly endorse them...they are incredible speakers!!


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For TV and movies the dynamics of the Kipsch are hard to beat. Great HT speakers. If more music was involved I would vote for the ML setup since the center you have for the Aperion is not a direct match and I like the sound of the ML. They are a nice compromise for both movies and music. The tweeters are nice and detailed and they have good dynamics as well.

And you might want to get the couch off the back wall.
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

For TV and movies the dynamics of the Kipsch are hard to beat. Great HT speakers. If more music was involved I would vote for the ML setup since the center you have for the Aperion is not a direct match and I like the sound of the ML. They are a nice compromise for both movies and music. The tweeters are nice and detailed and they have good dynamics as well.

And you might want to get the couch off the back wall.

the intimus and grand centers are both in the verus family and are in FACT timbre matched to the grands..(this was confirmed from HIcks at Aperion)

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post #6 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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That is correct...I confirmed that with Hicks as well. The couch needs to stay were it is, as it is a HUGE sectional and I have nowhere else to put it biggrin.gif


I would have to go with the PSB B5/B4/C4 combo to make it all fit and to deal with the size restrictions I am working with (Huge WAF issue). Does that change anyones recommendations?

~Shaun
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post #7 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 12:07 PM
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do you have a sub?

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post #8 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

do you have a sub?

Yes...keeping my F12.

~Shaun
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post #9 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like I would be able to slide the B6 in the spot I need to, so those could be used for the fronts. Would they overpower the C4 though?

~Shaun
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post #10 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 02:53 PM
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I think you should go with the PSB combo just from experience....the B5 will be very similar to the B6 exception for low bass response but that will be taken care of by your sub...you just might need a tad bit higher x-over...same with the center...I will guarantee you will love them...its such a nice system.

be cautious though...I was also 95% movies 5% music...then got the PSB's and now I am about 55% movies 45% music...no lie. smile.gif

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post #11 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

I think you should go with the PSB combo just from experience....the B5 will be very similar to the B6 exception for low bass response but that will be taken care of by your sub...you just might need a tad bit higher x-over...same with the center...I will guarantee you will love them...its such a nice system.

be cautious though...I was also 95% movies 5% music...then got the PSB's and now I am about 55% movies 45% music...no lie. smile.gif

I wanted to like the PSB speakers.... They were OK to me..but nothing special. Just saying this to remind the OP... There are a fair number of people who in a blind test will pick the $400 dolalr speakers over $40,000 speakers. Set 10 people in the room to listen to a brand like Klipsch (who seem to be more attract more polarizing) and 5 will love it 4 will hate it and 1 will be in middle.
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post #12 of 43 Old 02-13-2013, 07:00 PM
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I wanted to like the PSB speakers.... They were OK to me..but nothing special. Just saying this to remind the OP... There are a fair number of people who in a blind test will pick the $400 dolalr speakers over $40,000 speakers. Set 10 people in the room to listen to a brand like Klipsch (who seem to be more attract more polarizing) and 5 will love it 4 will hate it and 1 will be in middle.

What about the psb speakers were nothing special? I am always curious what others think of these speakers smile.gif

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post #13 of 43 Old 02-14-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Will B5 or B6's overwhelm a C4? Would B4's be ok for surrounds?

~Shaun
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post #14 of 43 Old 02-14-2013, 07:51 AM
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no they should be fine with that center channel. and I have heard many people recommend the B4 for surrounds (I am actually contemplating getiin them myself)

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post #15 of 43 Old 02-16-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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OK everyone....I appreciate all your comments. Here is what I did today. I went to 2 high end dealers. I felt very comfortable at both. The problem with the dealer that sells PSB is that all he had on hand were Imagine Mini Bookshelves, and Image T5's. They had NOTHING else, so I couldnt hear any of the rest of the Image line, which is what I really wanted to hear. The Minis were awesome, but for a package with that, the Mini center, and B4's for the surrounds were going to be around $1750. The T5's I heard were too laid back for me, even though the soundstage was great. The guy also only put on a music CD, even though I stated I listen to about 5% music. No movie watching...probably due to the fact they had no centers. Not impressed with the dealer, but the expensive version (Imagine's) sounded great.

Second stop was another dealer that deals in the klipsch Reference series. They had the floorstanding version as well, and the 52 center which is pretty close to the 42 I wanted to hear. They put on the new Narnia movie, and I was highly impressed. It was very forward sounding, but not "fatiguing" as many have stated. This might be due to the speakers being the series II, or maybe it is just my preference for speakers. He also put on a music CD (lot of vocals and instrumental solos) and it too sounded great. Not only was the dealer very informative and friendly, but he was very laid back as well. He also gave a killer price, which he said, and he proved, beat Amazon prices as he states that is the reference (no pun intended) for their pricing. Here is his breakdown: RB51 (x2) for $350, RC42 (x1) for $220, RS42 (x2) for $500, so total would be $1070, which is $430 under my max budget!

I love what I heard from the PSB dealer, but with not being able to listen to a movie, and not having any of the speakers that I wanted to hear in stock, I was disappointed. They are still in the running, but I wanted more. I dont think it was the speakers, I think it was the dealer, but dealers around me are few and far between.

~Shaun
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post #16 of 43 Old 02-16-2013, 11:33 AM
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I'd listen to the Klipsch a few more times. My experience with them is that I liked them less and less the more I heard them.

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post #17 of 43 Old 02-16-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotech View Post

I'd listen to the Klipsch a few more times. My experience with them is that I liked them less and less the more I heard them.

Well, and the other thing is that speakers that sound a little laid back often sound good in your own room once you get them setup and adjust to them. The Klipsch probably always sound good in demos because of their particular sound in comparison to other speakers. It's sort of like trying to evaluate a pinot noir after drinking a strong, bold cab sav (the Klipsch). I think that's one reason that they sell so well. Whereas if people had a chance to adjust to alternatives, they might not like the Klipsch so much.

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post #18 of 43 Old 02-16-2013, 12:33 PM
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If movies are 95% of your intended use then the Klipsch would be a great choice. I loved them for movies, didn't like them for music so I ended up with something else. But for movies only I would be happy with a Klipsch setup.

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post #19 of 43 Old 02-16-2013, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by devotech View Post

I'd listen to the Klipsch a few more times. My experience with them is that I liked them less and less the more I heard them.

Well, and the other thing is that speakers that sound a little laid back often sound good in your own room once you get them setup and adjust to them. The Klipsch probably always sound good in demos because of their particular sound in comparison to other speakers. It's sort of like trying to evaluate a pinot noir after drinking a strong, bold cab sav (the Klipsch). I think that's one reason that they sell so well. Whereas if people had a chance to adjust to alternatives, they might not like the Klipsch so much.

Why should I adjust to speakers? Shouldnt I like them right from the start?

~Shaun
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post #20 of 43 Old 02-16-2013, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
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Why should I adjust to speakers? Shouldnt I like them right from the start?
You should like the speaker right from the start. Some people claim Klipsch are bright and fatiguing but this is due to improper setup. I have several different lines of Klipsch speakers and they are and excellent speaker for the money!
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post #21 of 43 Old 02-16-2013, 07:07 PM
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Why should I adjust to speakers? Shouldnt I like them right from the start?

You described the T5s as a little too laid back, but you liked everything else of the PSBs you heard. Could be the PSB Image B5 speakers would be just right in your room. Individual room acoustics can be a big factor in how speakers sound.

Note, too, that the better audio speaker reviewers often take a week or so to get used to a speaker before writing about them. So yeah. It would be different if you said you hated what you heard. Sometimes first reactions to speakers are not the same after you get used to them and listen to 'em for a while.

However, $1500 is a lot to spend on speakers. A serious investment. The best way to go is to buy the front l/r pair for both, and demo them in home for a week. Then you would know for sure. You can get the Image B5's from audioadvisor.com, and it's only around $30 to ship 'em back if you don't go with them. Order the rest of the set after you make your decision.

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post #22 of 43 Old 02-17-2013, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by border411 View Post

Why should I adjust to speakers? Shouldnt I like them right from the start?

You described the T5s as a little too laid back, but you liked everything else of the PSBs you heard. Could be the PSB Image B5 speakers would be just right in your room. Individual room acoustics can be a big factor in how speakers sound.

Note, too, that the better audio speaker reviewers often take a week or so to get used to a speaker before writing about them. So yeah. It would be different if you said you hated what you heard. Sometimes first reactions to speakers are not the same after you get used to them and listen to 'em for a while.

However, $1500 is a lot to spend on speakers. A serious investment. The best way to go is to buy the front l/r pair for both, and demo them in home for a week. Then you would know for sure. You can get the Image B5's from audioadvisor.com, and it's only around $30 to ship 'em back if you don't go with them. Order the rest of the set after you make your decision.

I will also check to see if the dealer has some kind of a return policy after an in-home audition. I am also trying to find a dealer that has them in stock so I can go hear them. They are 40 miles away, but that is a small price to pay to make sure they are something I want to spend my hard earned money on.

Is there a different "tone" in the various lines? Why did the T5's sound laid back , while the Imagine Minis sounded more forward? Has anyone heard the Minis vs the B5's? Do they sound the same?

~Shaun
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post #23 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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So i think I finally figured out why the T5's sounded laid back and the Minis sounded more forward....I just remembered they were running off of different amps in the testing room! That would/could explain it. Still have my head shaking as to which one to get.....research overload! Might try Saturdayaudio to see if I could save some $$$ too.

~Shaun
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post #24 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 12:11 PM
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That's a fairly good idea if buy them and try them in your own home just fronts then make a decision with a place that has a good return policy and then get the rest of the set after you know which ones to get.
Crutchfield is better than Audioadvisor if you wanted to go PSB. 60 days to try and decide and only $7 to return them/ship back. They also carry Klipsch speakers.
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post #25 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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That is what I might try....and then I can buy B stock from Saturday Audio and save a bundle.

~Shaun
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post #26 of 43 Old 03-02-2013, 06:10 AM
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Just to throw this in the mix... Klipsch is very different sound from PSB.

If you liked Klipsch you "may" like other horn loaded speakers like BIC and HSU (Great Bargins and highly praised).

If you liked PSB you may like Paradigm... In fact, many Canadian brands are said to sound similar so you may just research that. My understanding is lead designer for Paradigm started his own company ...PSB.

Just options out there... HSU were highly praised and may save you a bundle of cash. Where as the rest of these are more B&M fair and markup may be more...but if you like them you like them.

Finally Klipsch, PSB and Paradigm are so popular that there is a huge used market on these... You would not have to wait too long.
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post #27 of 43 Old 03-02-2013, 08:41 AM
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If you liked Klipsch you "may" like other horn loaded speakers like BIC and HSU (Great Bargins and highly praised).

The HSU speakers have a horn loaded soft dome tweeter. Not the same as the Klipsch horn design with the compression driver. More like a soft dome tweeter sound.

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post #28 of 43 Old 03-02-2013, 08:54 AM
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The HSU speakers have a horn loaded soft dome tweeter. Not the same as the Klipsch horn design with the compression driver. More like a soft dome tweeter sound.
A very good point. I did not know that. You have been on the ball lately. Been eating your Wheaties? smile.gif

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post #29 of 43 Old 03-02-2013, 08:54 AM
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- My understanding is lead designer for Paradigm started his own company ...PSB.

Paul and Sue Barton started PSB in 1972, way before Paradigm started

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post #30 of 43 Old 03-02-2013, 09:15 AM
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A very good point. I did not know that. You have been on the ball lately. Been eating your Wheaties? smile.gif

LOL

No. I've just obviously been hanging out on the AVS speaker forum too much reading too many discussions smile.gif

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