Axiom Speaker Problems/Issues...Help Needed - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

Then all of a sudden in Oct 2011:

- I've had my Axioms since 2007/2008 and I too became tired of them or just caught a case of upgraditis
-VP150 sounds "tinny" and too forward for me, i've had one for 3-4yrs and have decided to get rid of it.
-I think I'm just interested in trying something else out, that and I'm tried of the VP150 which is starting to sound "tinny", and tough to hear dialog






I've also made posts where I stated I compared Axiom products against some other speakers from multiple companys in my own room using my own equipment to come to my conclusions. You have stated before that you have NEVER given another brand of speakers a fair shot in you room and its only been at dealers. Same with alot of those Axiom guys, who say they haven't heard or owned anything but Axiom in the last 10+ years but continue to claim they are some of the best bang for the buck speakers out there. How would you know if you never try anything else out?

You stated before that you had a old Velodyne that has a great reputation and is a great sounding subwoofer but yet you got and Axiom subwoofer and nows it so much better. If the Velo was good then it should be good now and that Axiom subwoofer isn't needed.


Heres someone else who after 6 months posting he likes Axiom speakers he posts this in the Aperion Owners thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustolem View Post

I went from Axiom M80's and VP180 L/C/R to the Aperions, the Axioms were nice and LOUD but no definition what so ever... when I hooked up the VGC it was night and day difference, the Axiom Center as HUGE as it was, it was just noise I had to turn it up so much higher then the fronts just to understand the voices.
Like I have said in other posts Bigger doesn't always mean better, the Axiom VP180 is a monster center channel but the layout of the individual speakers is what made it sound so soft. And this may sound crazy but after setting up my VGT's and VGC and running Yamaha room correction my surrounds actually sound better than they did with the Axioms.

Opinions change, just because you could NEVER fathom going with another speaker brand doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Its as if its against Axiomites religion do go with any but Axiom
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post #62 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Everyone who buys Bose eventually figures they did something wrong. I'd say that happened to GT. Similar to those who finally upgrade to serious subwoofers and their impressions of their old ones change.

It's kind of unfair to clump Axiom with anything Bose....I read the positive press reviews and decided to give them a shot....I wouldn't call them giant killers like many over at Axiom like to claim! Overall they're good speakers but in todays marketplace especially ID route others have surpassed them imho.

I've even offered a few of their membes to come over when I was an active member over at Axiom but they all declined or gave me little snide remarks...I don't think many of them have actucally compared their speakers vs. other brands in home....that's what I did & it changed my mind...I didn't go off memory come home and say..." yeah my Axioms rock".

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post #63 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post


I've even offered a few of their membes to come over when I was an active member over at Axiom but they all declined or gave me little snide remarks...I don't think many of them have actucally compared their speakers vs. other brands in home....that's what I did & it changed my mind...I didn't go off memory come home and say..." yeah my Axioms rock".

Bill

They are all drunk on the cool aide, what do you expect tongue.gif

Of course they aren't going to want to hear anything thing else. Ian has told them you can't do any better than his speakers. One of the funnest comments I read over there was that one user couldn't afford $30,000 speakers so he went with M80s eek.gif Isn't there a HUGE amout of other speakers inbetween that range. Oh and he just had to add he felt the $30k speakers sounded good but not 30 times better than his glorious Axiom speakers. rolleyes.gif

I look at it as its there loss that they didn't take you up on the offer or ever consider purchasing something else to get an idea on whats out there in the market. Instead they are happy just going from M2 to M22 to M60 to M80 to what ever else Ian throws together and says its best new thingy with gazillion tweeters everywhere.
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post #64 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 07:59 AM
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A buddy of mine had M60s and a VP150. Decent sounding speakers for the most part, although they did get shrill and fatiguing when pushed hard, and he was never too crazy about the VP150's lack of clarity. Eventually, he replaced them with three ChaseHT SHO-10s and, man, what a difference! We A/B'd the Axioms against the SHOs and it was one of those rare "night and day" scenarios: At loud levels where the SHOs were sounding big, clean and clear, the Axioms were just making us cringe. Brutal!
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post #65 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 10:32 AM
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I thought that I explained this previously, but here we go again.

My Velodyne F-1000 was over 20 friggin years old with a huge amount of hours on it. Judging by what I was reading in the Velo threads, this series is now failing in large numbers due to age as they are at the end of their life. I didn't want another big black box in my living room & coincidently Axiom had a clearance sale last summer on the diminutive EP-400 in the colour that I wanted so I jumped on it - nothing sinister about my purchase. And a great purchase it was as it is a little monster of a sub for music.

It is absolutely normal to grow tired of gear & change to something new. It doesn't often happen to me as I tend to keep my stuff if I like it. What is not normal, nor appropriate in any way is to change your gear that was obviously admired & enjoyed problem-free for an extended period & then turn around spend the next years relentlessly searching out every thread for certain company's moniker & mercilessly slagging it at every opportunity. This is way beyond just having an opinion & expressing it. This is hypocracy of the highest order and furthermore, is just plain wrong,

As for Bose, the statement that 'everyone' who owns Bose eventually sees the errors of their ways is a ridiculous generalization & patently false. Bose provides millions of households with fine entertainment pleasure that their owners are overwhelmingly happy with. I personally know of 2 in my little world & guess what ? - they both sound quite good within their settings. Bose is a longstanding, highly successful US company that fills a huge niche market for those who have certain space & decor requirements & who want to plug & play & not have to phart around with tripods, microphones, calibrations, endless tweaking etc, etc. If they want to pay for that convenience & form factor, it's their money & none of our business. Leave Bose alone for gawd's sake.

For me, this kind of behaviour sadly diminishes the credibility of the few individuals who continually indulge in this sort of thing & only serves to denigrate the overall quality & reputation of this mostly fine forum...

TAM
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post #66 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

I thought that I explained this previously, but here we go again.

My Velodyne F-1000 was over 20 friggin years old with a huge amount of hours on it. Judging by what I was reading in the Velo threads, this series is now failing in large numbers due to age as they are at the end of their life. I didn't want another big black box in my living room & coincidently Axiom had a clearance sale last summer on the diminutive EP-400 in the colour that I wanted so I jumped on it - nothing sinister about my purchase. And a great purchase it was as it is a little monster of a sub for music.

It is absolutely normal to grow tired of gear & change to something new. It doesn't often happen to me as I tend to keep my stuff if I like it. What is not normal, nor appropriate in any way is to change your gear that was obviously admired & enjoyed problem-free for an extended period & then turn around spend the next years relentlessly searching out every thread for certain company's moniker & mercilessly slagging it at every opportunity. This is way beyond just having an opinion & expressing it. This is hypocracy of the highest order and furthermore, is just plain wrong,

As for Bose, the statement that 'everyone' who owns Bose eventually sees the errors of their ways is a ridiculous generalization & patently false. Bose provides millions of households with fine entertainment pleasure that their owners are overwhelmingly happy with. I personally know of 2 in my little world & guess what ? - they both sound quite good within their settings. Bose is a longstanding, highly successful US company that fills a huge niche market for those who have certain space & decor requirements & who want to plug & play & not have to phart around with tripods, microphones, calibrations, endless tweaking etc, etc. If they want to pay for that convenience & form factor, it's their money & none of our business. Leave Bose alone for gawd's sake.

For me, this kind of behaviour sadly diminishes the credibility of the few individuals who continually indulge in this sort of thing & only serves to denigrate the overall quality & reputation of this mostly fine forum...

TAM

Wow...I understand your devotion for Axiom brand but now your defending Bose and you expect that others will take you serious...here at AVS... no less....eek.gif.

Good luck brother....

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post #67 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 10:52 AM
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You act as though I changed my opinion within a matter of minutes from one post to the next within 5 minutes. I don't search out Axiom threads. I participate in the Speaker subforum here at AVS and go down the line reading threads. If I see a thread or post that I can offer comment on, help, guidance or whatever I will respond. You are the one wasting time searching out old threads to find out what i've posted in the past since 2008 or earlier.

Hypocrisy is slamming AVS and AVS regulars on Axioms forum with the rest of the gang and then coming on here and saying there is a few AVSers that denigrate this fine quality forum.

Hypocrisy is saying that the M3 that has a on purpose bass hump is an elegant design and very pleasing while at the same time Alan Loft says that Paradigm employs the same or similar design in their speakers but yet its annoying and fatiquing.



^^^^I've been an affiliate with Axiom for many years and have had no issues receiving funds for my referrals.
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post #68 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Wow...I understand your devotion for Axiom brand but now your defending Bose and you expect that others will take you serious...here at AVS... no less....eek.gif.

Good luck brother....

Well it does explain a lot about his ideas of good audio.

Good marketing does not equal good audio.

This thread just hit a new low....
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post #69 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 12:25 PM
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I'm not defending anything except the concept that constantly slagging certain companies over, & over & over is wrong - plain & simple. Obviously my sense of values is very different from some here.

Hearing the Bose setups (no critical listening on my part) in the background in someone else's home sounded fine in that context. They nicely fill the needs of the owners. They aren't for me, but as long as the owner is happy, that's all that matters. Tough concept to grasp I know...

TAM
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post #70 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

I'm not defending anything except the concept that constantly slagging certain companies over, & over & over is wrong - plain & simple. Obviously my sense of values is very different from some here.

Hearing the Bose setups (no critical listening on my part) in the background in someone else's home sounded fine in that context. They nicely fill the needs of the owners. They aren't for me, but as long as the owner is happy, that's all that matters. Tough concept to grasp I know...

TAM

But this isn't a Bose forum. It is AVS. It is a documented fact that Bose home theater systems are poorly designed.

If a friend, neighbor, or family member came to me and told me they were thinking about buying a Bose system for their home theater, I would very kindly explain the cons with Bose. The cons being that they are a faulty speaker design which results in massive gaps across the frequency response spectrum using cheap components at a premium price. If someone said they care more about form factor than sound quality, I would point them to several alternatives that sound better and then move on and let them make their own decision.

I would do the same for someone thinking about buying expensive audio or video cables as well.

If Bose charged what their products were actually worth, and marketed their products less aggressively, I think people would leave them alone around here.

I truly hope this forum has helped people get enlightened about Bose and allowed consumers to make more enlightened decisions. You seem more concerned with defending a company than the consumer.
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post #71 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

They aren't for me, but as long as the owner is happy, that's all that matters.
They'd be a lot happier if they'd paid for them what they're actually worth. wink.gif

OTOH this is simply a flawed design:



And yes, I would put it in the same category as Bose. Perhaps even worse, as it has no redeeming qualities.

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post #72 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They'd be a lot happier if they'd paid for them what they're actually worth. wink.gif

OTOH this is simply a flawed design:

And yes, I would put it in the same category as Bose. Perhaps even worse, as it has no redeeming qualities.

But it has two tweeters?? Two are always better than one Bill.. biggrin.gif
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post #73 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They'd be a lot happier if they'd paid for them what they're actually worth. wink.gif

OTOH this is simply a flawed design:



And yes, I would put it in the same category as Bose. Perhaps even worse, as it has no redeeming qualities.

Flawed design? How dare you, Bill! Perhaps you need to read some of Axiom's fine white papers so you can see the error of your ways!




(I'm joking!!)

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post #74 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They'd be a lot happier if they'd paid for them what they're actually worth. wink.gif

OTOH this is simply a flawed design:



And yes, I would put it in the same category as Bose. Perhaps even worse, as it has no redeeming qualities.

So....Since I'm not upgrading my entire set of speakers until we buy our next house (later this year or next)...which will provide me with a better center channel sound for the interim?

1. The WP150 (with the new tweeter that Axiom said was supposedly "bad")
2. An entry level Polk center (CS2 Series II, CS10 or CS20, etc.) that won't be voice matched to the M60 towers

I fully expect the WP150 to still sound like it has a pillow over it when I get it back, just like it did when it left. That said...how could the Polk not be any better?

Thanks for all the feedback guys.
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post #75 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LSUMatt1514 View Post

So....Since I'm not upgrading my entire set of speakers until we buy our next house (later this year or next)...which will provide me with a better center channel sound for the interim?

1. The WP150 (with the new tweeter that Axiom said was supposedly "bad")
It would actually work better with one tweeter. When you use more than one tweeter they must be placed on a vertical line. If placed horizontally they will interfere with each other, and the further apart they're placed the worse it is. How that design ever made it into production boggles the mind, as even a first semester acoustical engineering student would know enough not to do that, let alone a real engineer.
For that matter placing midranges and midbasses horizontally should be avoided whenever possible. It can be done, but the level of engineering expertise required to get a good result is substantial, and frankly most horizontal centers would get at best a 'C' if it was a end of the year project in my class.

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post #76 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUMatt1514 View Post

So....Since I'm not upgrading my entire set of speakers until we buy our next house (later this year or next)...which will provide me with a better center channel sound for the interim?

1. The WP150 (with the new tweeter that Axiom said was supposedly "bad")
2. An entry level Polk center (CS2 Series II, CS10 or CS20, etc.) that won't be voice matched to the M60 towers

I fully expect the WP150 to still sound like it has a pillow over it when I get it back, just like it did when it left. That said...how could the Polk not be any better?

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

None if us know your financial situation, if you can spend $150 or so on the Polk center I would think it is an improvement. You might be able to sell the Polk center down the road for $75-100 since Polk is a pretty well established brand name. So you may not lose too much on the deal and if you are in the house for another year it will probably drive you nuts.
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post #77 of 89 Old 02-16-2013, 02:54 PM
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But this isn't a Bose forum. It is AVS. It is a documented fact that Bose home theater systems are poorly designed.

It certainly wasn't me who introduced Bose into an Axiom discussion.

No doubt is was done solely to equate the two...

TAM
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post #78 of 89 Old 02-18-2013, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I was able to get a VERY slightly used Polk CS20 for a very good price ($125 shipped)...with a cherry finish to match my Axiom M60s. Hopefully this speaker will match well with the Axiom M60s.

One big question...what kind of bracket/mount does everyone use to mount their center under their wall mounted flat panel? This was one of the things that convinced me to buy the W150 (the aesthetics of it) because it only sits off the wall about 4"-5". Now...I've got a rather large Polk center to place. Should I buy brackets that mount to the studs and place it under the flat panel that way, or put some sort of table under the TV? Either way...its not going to look near as good but I want the sound to improve! Curious as to what y'all have done...

Any mounting ideas guys? Thanks!
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post #79 of 89 Old 02-28-2013, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Voice matched or not...the Polk center sounds WAAAAAY better than the Axiom WP150 (even with its "new" tweeter). The 150 is now sitting in the closet.

I also think the towers sound different (significantly better), which makes me wonder if they changed out the crossover in them, despite telling me there were no issues with the M60s.
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post #80 of 89 Old 02-28-2013, 07:27 PM
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You need to look at Axiom for its positives, not just hound on the negatives and pretend they are the entirety of the company. That is just stupid. I use Axioms for my surrounds, for which they are very good speakers. My front sound stage is Paradigm and the Axioms blend well with them. Having never heard the Axiom main speakers, I cannot say if they are good or bad (but that design is not good - so I lean towards bad for that specific speaker). I do own the M3, M2, and M0's for my surrounds and they sound very good for their intended purposes...though I am planning on replacing the M0s with M2s eventually due to the M0s just not having enough UMPH for my liking.


I am not a fanboi, but I am not a dorky hater either. Every brand has its good and bad sides, you simply have to use the good and not use the bad.
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post #82 of 89 Old 03-01-2013, 09:55 AM
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I am not a fanboi, but I am not a dorky hater either. Every brand has its good and bad sides, you simply have to use the good and not use the bad.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if they don't know enough not to make a speaker like the WP150, what are they not doing correctly inside the cab, where no one can see it?

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post #83 of 89 Old 03-01-2013, 05:22 PM
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You also have the fanboys would see only the good side and will never accept the negatives in any way. Its just trolling to them if someone brings up a legitmate concern/complaint. As I said in other posts and from experience, it takes ZERO effort to outperform the VP150 center. The M2 isn't a bad speaker but its very outclassed IMO at its current price. That is my biggest gripe with Axiom stuff. Over priced for what you get and if they past the VP150 off at over $400 a piece, what else are they doing.

Glad the OP is finally happy with the much cheaper Polk.
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post #84 of 89 Old 03-01-2013, 09:06 PM
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I too am sincerely pleased that the OP has found a satisfactory CC speaker.

For those who haven't read this entire thread, Post #58 on Page 2 here says a lot.

BTW, my M2v3s are great little speakers at their price point ~$290/pr on factory clearance last summer. They become excellent when paired with a good sub such as the EP-400 or whatever. I & many others are more than pleased with these small bookshelves. There are many fine M2 reviews out there over the last decade, but here is one at AH of the previous V2s - although they may not be quite the same bargain as they once were a few years ago; however, I did well price wise on my purchase:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/axiom-audio-epic-midi-400

TAM
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post #85 of 89 Old 04-12-2013, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
It would actually work better with one tweeter. When you use more than one tweeter they must be placed on a vertical line. If placed horizontally they will interfere with each other, and the further apart they're placed the worse it is. How that design ever made it into production boggles the mind, as even a first semester acoustical engineering student would know enough not to do that, let alone a real engineer.
For that matter placing midranges and midbasses horizontally should be avoided whenever possible. It can be done, but the level of engineering expertise required to get a good result is substantial, and frankly most horizontal centers would get at best a 'C' if it was a end of the year project in my class.

Looks like Axiom isn't the only one using multiple tweeters in a center channel - http://rbhsound.com/sx6100cr.php



http://rbhsound.com/6100se.php


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post #86 of 89 Old 04-12-2013, 05:13 PM
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Yep those are ones to be avoided too, don't matter the brand. After my experience with dual tweeter centers, i'd never ever consider those. I don't see anyway those would work, unless two of them are bandpassed or something.
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post #87 of 89 Old 04-12-2013, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That's one way to look at it. Another is that if they don't know enough not to make a speaker like the WP150, what are they not doing correctly inside the cab, where no one can see it?

That is one way to look at it. Another is wondering if they are hiding leprechauns in the speakers...

It is easy to see what they are doing inside the cab, just look - not really that hard to do. But rather than look, just run measurements and trust the graphs instead of your eyes.
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post #88 of 89 Old 04-12-2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Looks like Axiom isn't the only one using multiple tweeters in a center channel - http://rbhsound.com/sx6100cr.php



http://rbhsound.com/6100se.php

Their site is interesting, many of their speakers look like they were designed by someone who more or less knew what they were doing, and then there are some like these that look like what a clueless junior high schooler might think a speaker should look like. Maybe they're just trying to cover all the marketing bases. rolleyes.gif

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post #89 of 89 Old 04-12-2013, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

That is one way to look at it. Another is wondering if they are hiding leprechauns in the speakers...

It is easy to see what they are doing inside the cab, just look - not really that hard to do. But rather than look, just run measurements and trust the graphs instead of your eyes.

In the case of the W/VP150 you have a poor design backed by equally poor measurements. And then you have people that backup the poor measurements with their ears. Like the OP. He found that a better designed cheaper speaker sounded better than a poorly designed more expensive speaker. What do you think the measurements would show? Especially off-axis? Having seen the off-axis measurements of the VP150 I know why the OP prefers the better designed cheaper speaker. It sounds better. Pretty sure the measurements would clearly show that too.
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