JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint. - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 605 Old 03-22-2013, 02:53 PM
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I did not have time to set up an side by side AB session, so I turned Audyssey off and listened to several songs on my Triple 8's at reference. Then I replaced them with the 228's and listened to the the same songs again after level matching the 228's with the test tones in my pre pro. My S2 was on for both sessions.

Then I listened to several other songs that I was familiar with. There is a definite difference. The main difference is that on a couple of songs with loud female vocals I now realize that there was a slight harshness with the Triple 8's that is no longer present with the 228's. I listened hard and could not hear any harshness with any of the songs I listened to. There were also a couple of details in a couple of songs that I heard for the first time. Even with less than critical listening, there is a subtle improvement in the sound that is hard to describe.

Everyone knows that I am a huge fan of the Triple 8's and JTR's in general so take my preliminary review in that context, but I am very happy with the purchase. I am excited to do some more listening and watch some movies.

Of course, the build quality is pretty amazing and they have the biggest binding posts I have ever seen. To get an idea, think of the binding posts on any commercial speaker and multiply the size by about 5.
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post #272 of 605 Old 03-22-2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

I did not have time to set up an side by side AB session, so I turned Audyssey off and listened to several songs on my Triple 8's at reference. Then I replaced them with the 228's and listened to the the same songs again after level matching the 228's with the test tones in my pre pro. My S2 was on for both sessions.

Then I listened to several other songs that I was familiar with. There is a definite difference. The main difference is that on a couple of songs with loud female vocals I now realize that there was a slight harshness with the Triple 8's that is no longer present with the 228's. I listened hard and could not hear any harshness with any of the songs I listened to. There were also a couple of details in a couple of songs that I heard for the first time. Even with less than critical listening, there is a subtle improvement in the sound that is hard to describe.

Everyone knows that I am a huge fan of the Triple 8's and JTR's in general so take my preliminary review in that context, but I am very happy with the purchase. I am excited to do some more listening and watch some movies.

Of course, the build quality is pretty amazing and they have the biggest binding posts I have ever seen. To get an idea, think of the binding posts on any commercial speaker and multiply the size by about 5.

Thanks for the report Jedi and again congrats on the purchase. The binding posts are huge and since I don't move the speakers often (at all), I have been using bare 12ga speaker wire as I think that makes the most positive connection. You?

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post #273 of 605 Old 03-22-2013, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Thanks for the report Jedi and again congrats on the purchase. The binding posts are huge and since I don't move the speakers often (at all), I have been using bare 12ga speaker wire as I think that makes the most positive connection. You?
I am doing the same here. I took the speakon connectors off of the cable that I already had going to the T8's and put the bare wire into the binding posts. It is really hard to get to my LCR so they are safe from the kids. The backs of my T8 surrounds will be accessible inside closets, so the speakons will be ideal for keeping the kids from messing with them.

I am interested in seeing what they will sound like after running Audyssey. I am so happy with the sound right now, that I almost feel that I don't need it. It may be that between the controlled directivity of the 228's and my room treatments, I am getting a pretty flat response already.
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post #274 of 605 Old 03-22-2013, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I ran Audyssey again tonight and with the speakers tucked up a bit closer to the wall - Audyssey determined them to be 60hz. I'm going to watch my first movie on the full front soundstage in a few minutes - Prometheus.

Sadly because I have a couple young kiddos I can't crank it to reference - but I'm going to enjoy it anyway. Life has been in the fast lane lately --- so it'll be nice to slow down and enjoy a movie!

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post #275 of 605 Old 03-22-2013, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Jedirun - I usually end up turning off Audyssey as well. I toy back and forth - but typically find I like it better off and just use it to set levels, distances, etc.

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post #276 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Going to bed - not gonna be able to finish it tonight - but impressions are EXCELLENT on this setup. The center dialogue is crystal clear, I had no problem understanding anything, even with the lower volumes. Sound was excellent!

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post #277 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Jedirun - I usually end up turning off Audyssey as well. I toy back and forth - but typically find I like it better off and just use it to set levels, distances, etc.
Sometimes I wish there was an option to have Audyssey on, just for the sub. I have not yet heard how the 228's sounded with Audyssey, so I should not judge yet. I ended up liking Audyssey on with my Triple 8's.
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post #278 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 08:17 AM
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Well I have decided. I am going to place my order for the 212's and I am going to pair with a 228 for center dialogue. I am going to pair this all to a new Denon 4520. Just have to decide if I am going to upgrade the cabinets to rosewood.
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post #279 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Sometimes I wish there was an option to have Audyssey on, just for the sub. I have not yet heard how the 228's sounded with Audyssey, so I should not judge yet. I ended up liking Audyssey on with my Triple 8's.

I've been trying to find out how to run Audyssey only below 200hz as well. Does anyone know if this is possible?
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post #280 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 08:40 AM
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Archaea, Jedirun, or anyone with the Noesis speakers, would you describe the 228HT or the 212HT as forward at all?
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post #281 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Sometimes I wish there was an option to have Audyssey on, just for the sub. I have not yet heard how the 228's sounded with Audyssey, so I should not judge yet. I ended up liking Audyssey on with my Triple 8's.

I added some room treatments and re-ran a full Audyssey for the umpteenth time this week. I also removed the attenuators from the 212's and sure enough Audyssey set them to -12db. I ended up leaving them off and bumped my ref level to -5db. Listened to some MC music and preferred Audyssey off. Then watched Zero Dark Thirty last night (Audyssey off) and the sound was stellar. Looks like Audyssey will be off for the time being.
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Well I have decided. I am going to place my order for the 212's and I am going to pair with a 228 for center dialogue. I am going to pair this all to a new Denon 4520. Just have to decide if I am going to upgrade the cabinets to rosewood.

Not to push you but it would be great to see the 212's and 228 done in the rosewood finish ... cool.gif

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post #282 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post

Archaea, Jedirun, or anyone with the Noesis speakers, would you describe the 228HT or the 212HT as forward at all?

Hmm not sure how to describe it. If you mean bright or harsh absolutely not. The 212's sound crystal clear with no listener fatigue whatsoever - I should know, I waste far too much time with my butt on the couch listening to music. During any given "listening session" I get more drawn in over time, not less making it hard to stop listening. Ha, sometimes I wish I did get some listener fatigue so I'd get more sleep. biggrin.gif
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post #283 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Sometimes I wish there was an option to have Audyssey on, just for the sub. I have not yet heard how the 228's sounded with Audyssey, so I should not judge yet. I ended up liking Audyssey on with my Triple 8's.

What about using an Anti-mode 8033 to just EQ your sub?

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml
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post #284 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Hmm not sure how to describe it. If you mean bright or harsh absolutely not. The 212's sound crystal clear with no listener fatigue whatsoever - I should know, I waste far too much time with my butt on the couch listening to music. During any given "listening session" I get more drawn in over time, not less making it hard to stop listening. Ha, sometimes I wish I did get some listener fatigue so I'd get more sleep. biggrin.gif

Forward is one of those audiophile terms that leaves me scratching my head. Like Carp I would interpret that as meaning bright or harsh. The 212 does have a significantly upgraded CD and so should be a bit smoother on the top end than the 228. My 212's have excellent midrange/high frequency and I think everyone who has heard them would describe them similarly.

It seems a lot of people stay on the fence for these purchases and based upon the dollar amount I understand their trepidation. Hearing them is the only way to know if they are for you and anything else is a leap of faith.

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post #285 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

What about using an Anti-mode 8033 to just EQ your sub?

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml

I'm waiting for a pair of the 228's, and thats my plan to use the DSPeaker AntiMode 8033S-II.
The only problem i see at this point is, that i don't know how to cut the frequency for the 228's at 60-80, because i only use a 2-channel pre amp
and a power amp.

What happens if i drive the 228's in full range?
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post #286 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I added some room treatments and re-ran a full Audyssey for the umpteenth time this week. I also removed the attenuators from the 212's and sure enough Audyssey set them to -12db. I ended up leaving them off and bumped my ref level to -5db. Listened to some MC music and preferred Audyssey off. Then watched Zero Dark Thirty last night (Audyssey off) and the sound was stellar. Looks like Audyssey will be off for the time being.
Not to push you but it would be great to see the 212's and 228 done in the rosewood finish ... cool.gif
I just got off the phone with Jeff a little bit ago and I ordered them in black. As much as I wanted to get the rosewood finish, the black were kinda growing on me and I was also trying to stay under 6K. Now the dreaded wait!!
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post #287 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 11:30 AM
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I just got off the phone with Jeff a little bit ago and I ordered them in black. As much as I wanted to get the rosewood finish, the black were kinda growing on me and I was also trying to stay under 6K. Now the dreaded wait!!

cool.gif
The standard finish is fine and tough as nails. No worries about bumping or scratching them and I think they use the baltic birch 13ply that is much more durable than the pretty MDF with wood veneer.

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post #288 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 11:40 AM
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cool.gif
The standard finish is fine and tough as nails. No worries about bumping or scratching them and I think they use the baltic birch 13ply that is much more durable than the pretty MDF with wood veneer.
A similar finish on my PSA XV-30s. Be nice to keep it all uniform.
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post #289 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Forward is one of those audiophile terms that leaves me scratching my head. Like Carp I would interpret that as meaning bright or harsh. The 212 does have a significantly upgraded CD and so should be a bit smoother on the top end than the 228. My 212's have excellent midrange/high frequency and I think everyone who has heard them would describe them similarly.

It seems a lot of people stay on the fence for these purchases and based upon the dollar amount I understand their trepidation. Hearing them is the only way to know if they are for you and anything else is a leap of faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Hmm not sure how to describe it. If you mean bright or harsh absolutely not. The 212's sound crystal clear with no listener fatigue whatsoever - I should know, I waste far too much time with my butt on the couch listening to music. During any given "listening session" I get more drawn in over time, not less making it hard to stop listening. Ha, sometimes I wish I did get some listener fatigue so I'd get more sleep. biggrin.gif

What I meant by forward was do they have a deep soundstage? I know the JTR's are probably much different than the Tektons, but when A/B-ing the M-Lores to the Phil 2s (even though level matched), the Phil's soundstage was much deeper (and wider as well). It felt like with the Tektons the voices and instruments were closer even though at the same volume level. I know the Phils have an open baffle design so that could be the main contributor. I'm not a huge fan of audiophile language, but it can be difficult to describe sound.

I'm thinking of moving my Phils to a two channel room and getting the 228HT LCR for my HT.
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post #290 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 12:34 PM
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What I meant by forward was do they have a deep soundstage? I know the JTR's are probably much different than the Tektons, but when A/B-ing the M-Lores to the Phil 2s (even though level matched), the Phil's soundstage was much deeper (and wider as well). It felt like with the Tektons the voices and instruments were closer even though at the same volume level. I know the Phils have an open baffle design so that could be the main contributor. I'm not a huge fan of audiophile language, but it can be difficult to describe sound.

I'm thinking of moving my Phils to a two channel room and getting the 228HT LCR for my HT.

I think the depth thing is one of those three dimensional descriptors that I never really understood about audio. Jim Salk credits a speakers dispersion characteristics and off axis performance as main factors in creating a wider and deeper soundstage. The Noesis 60/40 horn actually produce a narrower dispersion pattern than the coaxial based Triple 8's and 12's yet, they have better off axis performance within that pattern and to me have a wider sound presentation.

In any case, LCR's playing MC audio will have a much different sound presentation than a 2 channel stereo system and so many of the traditional stereo terms are not really interchangeable IMHO.

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post #291 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 12:46 PM
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I don't do a lot of MC audio listening. I'd use the JTRs for the theater room, but we do a decent amount of two channel listening there as well.
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post #292 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post

I don't do a lot of MC audio listening. I'd use the JTRs for the theater room, but we do a decent amount of two channel listening there as well.
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I don't do a lot of MC audio listening. I'd use the JTRs for the theater room, but we do a decent amount of two channel listening there as well.

Then I'd say that your idea of using the Philharmonic's for 2 channel is a good one. I did not enjoy multichannel music until I had well matched MC speakers and then found some well recorded MC music (Steve Stevens - Flamenco. A Go Go DVD-A comes to mind). Now 90% of my music listening is to live Bluray recordings with good Dolby or DTS MC audio.

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post #293 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 01:37 PM
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[quote name="VicTorious1" url="/t/1458711/jtr-noesis-228ht-the-best-speaker-you-never-heard-of-for-1100-pricepoint/270#post_23116253"
I'm thinking of moving my Phils to a two channel room and getting the 228HT LCR for my HT.[/quote]

I think that is the way to go. You will not be dissapointed by the 228's and you already stated in another post, how much you like the Phil2's. You will have the best of both worlds.
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post #294 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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228HT are EXCELLENT for home theater!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #295 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

What about using an Anti-mode 8033 to just EQ your sub?

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml

That is a pretty good idea,and one I might toy with if I don't like what Audyssey does to the 228's. For now, I hope I like it. I don't want to buy anything else. I still have to pay the contractor to hide my Triple 8 surrounds.

I have not run Audyssey yet, so I do not want to speak poorly of it without hearing the result. I am just saying that the system, including the sub, sounds great, even without it.
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I added some room treatments and re-ran a full Audyssey for the umpteenth time this week. I also removed the attenuators from the 212's and sure enough Audyssey set them to -12db. I ended up leaving them off and bumped my ref level to -5db. Listened to some MC music and preferred Audyssey off. Then watched Zero Dark Thirty last night (Audyssey off) and the sound was stellar. Looks like Audyssey will be off for the time being.

RMK, I seem to remember you running a sub eq in addition to Audyssey for your Orbit Shifters in the past. Are you still using it?
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post #296 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 03:36 PM
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I was a set on getting rid of my Pioneer VSX21TXH because it didn't have Audyssey XT32 and I wanted to be able to EQ dual subs and my room speakers. But after reading from various JTR owners it seems that have been more then one comment about guys not liking what it does to their JTR speakers and just end up turning it off.

So I figured I'd keep my current receiver and pick up an Anti-mode 8033.
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post #297 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

That is a pretty good idea,and one I might toy with if I don't like what Audyssey does to the 228's. For now, I hope I like it. I don't want to buy anything else. I still have to pay the contractor to hide my Triple 8 surrounds.

I have not run Audyssey yet, so I do not want to speak poorly of it without hearing the result. I am just saying that the system, including the sub, sounds great, even without it.
RMK, I seem to remember you running a sub eq in addition to Audyssey for your Orbit Shifters in the past. Are you still using it?

Nope, I've owned several SMS-1's but have been using Audyssey XT32 for the last 18 months. I'm liking the Audyssey off sound better (as of today) and may run it that way for a while. After discussing MC music in the Thread I dug up that Steve Stevens DVD-A and gave it a spin this afternoon. It sounded better than ever. That disk is a great test for dynamics.cool.gif

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post #298 of 605 Old 03-23-2013, 05:40 PM
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Nope, I've owned several SMS-1's but have been using Audyssey XT32 for the last 18 months. I'm liking the Audyssey off sound better (as of today) and may run it that way for a while. After discussing MC music in the Thread I dug up that Steve Stevens DVD-A and gave it a spin this afternoon. It sounded better than ever. That disk is a great test for dynamics.cool.gif
After all of this talk, I ran Audyssey and did some listening while blindly toggling the eq setting between manual, off and Audyssey several times per song. I ended up picking the Audyssey on setting.

I am really really likening these speakers for music. We will watch our first full movie tonight.
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post #299 of 605 Old 03-24-2013, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

After all of this talk, I ran Audyssey and did some listening while blindly toggling the eq setting between manual, off and Audyssey several times per song. I ended up picking the Audyssey on setting.

I am really really likening these speakers for music. We will watch our first full movie tonight.

Yeah, that's the thing with Audyssey. Every time I run it I get slightly different results ... so my relationship with this software has been a bit of an Odyssey wink.gif. I definitely preferred Audyssey off with music yesterday as it seems to remove the live factor. I haven't watched a movie yet but we may view the Hobbit (3D) if there is time tonight so that should be a good test.

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post #300 of 605 Old 03-24-2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Yeah, that's the thing with Audyssey. Every time I run it I get slightly different results ... so my relationship with this software has been a bit of an Odyssey wink.gif. I definitely preferred Audyssey off with music yesterday as it seems to remove the live factor. I haven't watched a movie yet but we may view the Hobbit (3D) if there is time tonight so that should be a good test.
Usually I feel like Audyssy puts a slight veil over the sound and like you said, eliminates the live feeling of the music. However, yesterday it was the exact opposite. It sounded more live with it on. Probably next time I run it, which will be when I have the surrounds installed, I will be back to liking it off.
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