JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint. - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:31 PM
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BTW, are you sure you can't hook them up temporarily and crank up some music? smile.gif
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:57 PM
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Kma100, I know your pain. I'm still about a month away from finishing my basement. I put them in my bedroom. They are too close together, take up too much space and sound wonderful!

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Old 04-18-2013, 07:01 PM
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Kma100, I know your pain. I'm still about a month away from finishing my basement. I put them in my bedroom. They are too close together, take up too much space and sound wonderful!

The only "pain" is that I have T8-LP's and keep wondering if I should upgrade :-)
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:15 AM
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LOL, I am sure I will "find" a way to hook them up very soon...

I was in bed last night trying to think of a good excuse to tell my wife how three fairly large black boxes magically appeared in our family room next to the TV but I just could not come up with a good one. I thought I might tell her that Santa put them there for me but since it's April I am not certain that would work. biggrin.gif
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:49 PM
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LOL, I am sure I will "find" a way to hook them up very soon...

I was in bed last night trying to think of a good excuse to tell my wife how three fairly large black boxes magically appeared in our family room next to the TV but I just could not come up with a good one. I thought I might tell her that Santa put them there for me but since it's April I am not certain that would work. biggrin.gif

Well, same here for me...trying hard to convince my gf about the difference between beauty and good sound. Not that i find the 228's ugly.....in my eyes they just like a...just like a dance at the castle!!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:39 PM
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Well, same here for me...trying hard to convince my gf about the difference between beauty and good sound. Not that i find the 228's ugly.....in my eyes they just like a...just like a dance at the castle!!
Put them behind an acoustically transparent screen so that you don't have to do any convincing.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:31 PM
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That they are! They weigh 75lbs each. Jeff builds rock solid stuff.
You are not kidding. My 212's are 125lbs each and just solid as a rock.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:39 PM
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Look what the FedEx man brought me today!!!

[URL=http://[/URL




Now for the bad news...
I am two weeks away from drywall in my theater and have to leave my new toys sitting all alone in a room upstairs....guess I now have some extra motivation to get my build complete!

I just could not pass up the intro price but now I have to be stare at these things just sitting idle...

Jeff - Thanks for the awesome speakers! There were packed like a tank and arrived without any problems!
Great pick! You are going to love them.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:07 PM
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The only "pain" is that I have T8-LP's and keep wondering if I should upgrade :-)

Those are great speakers. I had those and sold them. I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake because the 228's are so much bigger. I'm going to have to wait until my basement is finished to make that call.

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Old 04-27-2013, 08:36 AM
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Just received my order from Jeff (thanks!): 3x228HT for LCR in dedicated HT. Also received 2xSingle 8HT-LP for sides, slanted 8's for rears (7.1 system).
These are replacing B&W N804's and HTM3 across the front. I'm remodeling my HT (perf screen, columns, soffits, stage, etc), so it will be a few weeks before I have the whole system in and dialed in with Audyssey.

But I couldn't resist (and also had to make sure they survived shipping) doing an abbreviated A-B between my B&W fronts and the JTR 228's. So using an Integra 9.9 pre with Cinenova 7x300w amp, Audyssey tuned for the B&W's and did not re-run Audyssey for JTR's, also used my current in-walls for sides/rears, not the new JTR's.

Watched scenes from The Hobbit, The Avengers both on BD, Rock of Ages on HBO, an American Idol DVR recorded. Watched/listened to all three with 228's, then all three with the B&W 804/HTM3 so just a memory listening test, not scientific at all.

Initial thoughts:
JTR excelled on vocals big time on all 3 sources, could actually hear actors breathing, so vocals bested the B&W setup. Did need to turn up hte sub (JR Audo F113) a bit, and also did not re-run the sub setup either. JTR's noticeably brighter, but played crips highs at higher volumes. A different sound than the B&W but for me an overall improvement in my room.

B&W more subtle, but overall preferred the JTR's for sure for home theater which my room is 100%. I think that when I finish the room (also will have more room treatment than currently), all 7 JTR's installed, Audyssey and sub management calibrated, it will be quite satisfying
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:52 AM
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Mark you might have to turn up the sub quite a bit (I know you said you turned it up some) to match up to the JTR's since they are so much more sensitive. That should tame some brightness.

I got to hear the single 8's yesterday for the first time, you are going to love your surrounds. I've heard almost all JTR stuff except triple 12's, but still I was surprised at how good the single 8 sounds. Everyone says that and now I see why.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:59 PM
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I have a question about subwoofer requirements needed to support the Noesis 228s. This one could fit in either this thread or the JTR Captivator S thread. Let me give you some background and I apologize in advance for this long-winded post to get to a simple question.

Noesis Listening Impressions:
I listened to the Noesis 212s (with dual Cap S2 subs) with music at the NE GTG a few weeks ago. Putting the 212s volume output aside, I was shocked at how crisp and clean the 212s sound was. The crisp and clean sound indicated to me this speaker’s ability to provide incredible detail regardless of volume. My thoughts immediately turned to how these speakers would be awesome for home theater (both dialogue and action movies), playing movie soundtracks due to their dynamics and clarity.
However, I have to admit the sound of the Noesis is a sound my ears are not used to and there is concern about treble sensitivity, even though there was not a point while listening to the Noesis that would lead me to confirm such a problem would exist (this is based on a past experience demoing a Klipsch horn based compression driver). Also, I’m not so sure the Noesis would be the right speaker for me if I was a music listener. The sound is just very different to me and of course this is a matter of subjectivity.

Theater Room :
I have an approximate 3,500 cubic feet theater in my basement. My screen is mounted on a wall and is not an AT screen. Even though my current front stage is visible, speaker aesthetics is no longer an issue for me (not that the Noesis look bad). I care much more about function as opposed to beauty.

Objectives:
I’m currently thinking about replacing my current audio system later in the year and moving my Ascend Sierras upstairs to the family room for music listening and flat screen duties. My timing of this move is toward the end of this year and I’m researching and listening to a some different systems solely for movies in mind, including the Noesis 228s and the Cat 8s.
Since the use of my audio system in my home theater is 100% movies (and some TV), what’s become important to me is dynamics and clarity (from a range of low - moderate volume scenes to the high volume action scenes), more so than planning for a speaker that would better fit my needs for listening to music.

Sub Needs: I have a preference for sealed subs that provide quality sound (tight and punchy setup is always a goal) as opposed to subs that are good for solely sheer output and the boom. Even though I would love the S2, it’s not an option because (a) getting the sub down in my basement would be the ultimate nightmare; (b) I will not be able to sneak a 200 pound sub past my wife (she may not care about the looks of the speakers in the basement, however, she hates subs and I’m adjusting her attitude 1 sub at a time); and (c) financial resources.
However, one S1 to start would be ideal in terms of size (movement and WAF), real estate footprint and financial resources.

Question: Is one S1 able to support a Noesis 228 front stage or is this just not enough output based on my theater’s room size combined with the sensitivity of the 228s? My concern is about the potential for brightness if the bass output is not enough to keep up with the 228s. Let me know your thoughts.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Depends on how loud you want to go!

The there 228ht will certainly outrun the single s1. Two s1 subs are more appropriate if you want to listen to refrence level playback with the subs several dB hot (like most of us like) in a 3500 cubic foot room.

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Old 04-29-2013, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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The 228ht were playing 16dB over reference on Book of Eli surround speaker duty and while the drivers were moving they still sounded perfectly clean through my ear plugs. tongue.gif

By contrast the 212ht drivers were barely moving at those same levels on front sound stage duty.


So. If you need over say 18 or 20dB above reference in a 6000 cubic foot room like dlbeck has - then you might consider the 212ht.

Ha

I mention the above to basically say you probably won't ever be spl limited by JTR mains. It'll nearly always be a subwoofer limitation in comparison.

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Old 04-29-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Depends on how loud you want to go!

The there 228ht will certainly outrun the single s1. Two s1 subs are more appropriate if you want to listen to refrence level playback with the subs several dB hot (like most of us like) in a 3500 cubic foot room.

Most of the time, I'll listen at moderate volume levels (5 to 10 db below reference on average). Occasionally, would like to listen at reference level (average 85db with typical movie soundtrack spikes i.e. action scenes). Can't see a situation where I'm running significantly hotter than reference. Is a single S1 just not enough for the occasional reference level with a movie? Two S1s is definitely outside the budget. Any other sub suggestions in a range of $2.5K for 2 subs that will keep up with the 228s?
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob from NJ View Post

I have a question about subwoofer requirements needed to support the Noesis 228s. This one could fit in either this thread or the JTR Captivator S thread. Let me give you some background and I apologize in advance for this long-winded post to get to a simple question.

Noesis Listening Impressions:
I listened to the Noesis 212s (with dual Cap S2 subs) with music at the NE GTG a few weeks ago. Putting the 212s volume output aside, I was shocked at how crisp and clean the 212s sound was. The crisp and clean sound indicated to me this speaker’s ability to provide incredible detail regardless of volume. My thoughts immediately turned to how these speakers would be awesome for home theater (both dialogue and action movies), playing movie soundtracks due to their dynamics and clarity.
However, I have to admit the sound of the Noesis is a sound my ears are not used to and there is concern about treble sensitivity, even though there was not a point while listening to the Noesis that would lead me to confirm such a problem would exist (this is based on a past experience demoing a Klipsch horn based compression driver). Also, I’m not so sure the Noesis would be the right speaker for me if I was a music listener. The sound is just very different to me and of course this is a matter of subjectivity.

Theater Room :
I have an approximate 3,500 cubic feet theater in my basement. My screen is mounted on a wall and is not an AT screen. Even though my current front stage is visible, speaker aesthetics is no longer an issue for me (not that the Noesis look bad). I care much more about function as opposed to beauty.

Objectives:
I’m currently thinking about replacing my current audio system later in the year and moving my Ascend Sierras upstairs to the family room for music listening and flat screen duties. My timing of this move is toward the end of this year and I’m researching and listening to a some different systems solely for movies in mind, including the Noesis 228s and the Cat 8s.
Since the use of my audio system in my home theater is 100% movies (and some TV), what’s become important to me is dynamics and clarity (from a range of low - moderate volume scenes to the high volume action scenes), more so than planning for a speaker that would better fit my needs for listening to music.

Sub Needs: I have a preference for sealed subs that provide quality sound (tight and punchy setup is always a goal) as opposed to subs that are good for solely sheer output and the boom. Even though I would love the S2, it’s not an option because (a) getting the sub down in my basement would be the ultimate nightmare; (b) I will not be able to sneak a 200 pound sub past my wife (she may not care about the looks of the speakers in the basement, however, she hates subs and I’m adjusting her attitude 1 sub at a time); and (c) financial resources.
However, one S1 to start would be ideal in terms of size (movement and WAF), real estate footprint and financial resources.

Question: Is one S1 able to support a Noesis 228 front stage or is this just not enough output based on my theater’s room size combined with the sensitivity of the 228s? My concern is about the potential for brightness if the bass output is not enough to keep up with the 228s. Let me know your thoughts.
My room is about half the size of yours and I have an S2 so the comparison may not be all that valuable, but I do not feel that I anywhere near the limits of the S2 when paired with the 228's. I think I have the gain knob at -12 to the volume of the test tones from my prepro to 75 db at my listening position 11 feet away. Therefore in my room, in theory I would turn the gain to -6 with an S1 and in a room double the size sitting farther from the sub you could leave the gain at 0 and probably be able to hit reference. The 228's will go beyond that, and above reference you might run out of sub output. Worst case scenerio, if the output does not cut it, you could add a second sub down the road.

Of course, this is all in theory with sketchy math.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:59 PM
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Another option would be multiple DIY 18's. (Maybe 4)
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:11 PM
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Another option would be multiple DIY 18's. (Maybe 4)

Thanks for both responses. When it comes to DIY anything, its just not in my DNA. If I go the direction of the 228s, as you pointed out may have to try with a single S1, see how it goes and then decide if I go back for more. My concern is really the possibility of brightness and thinking about it I can always EQ the treble with my AVR. Unless, I can gain greater output with 2 alternative subs within my price range.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:18 PM
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I can always EQ the treble with my AVR.

Rob I do that when I am playing music that isn't well recorded, which is a lot actually since I love metal. I pull down 2khz 1.5 db's and 4khz 2.5 db's on the manual MCACC eq settings on my receiver. I have found that harshness does not equal the really high frequencies like many people think, instead it's right around 4 khz.

I am very sensitive to harsh sounding speakers and I can assure you I NEVER get any listener fatigue whatsoever with my 212's. In fact, all they do is just keep sounding better during a listening session.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:19 PM
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Oh, btw I did the same eq pull down with my last 3 pairs of speakers for non well recorded music.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob from NJ View Post

Thanks for both responses. When it comes to DIY anything, its just not in my DNA. If I go the direction of the 228s, as you pointed out may have to try with a single S1, see how it goes and then decide if I go back for more. My concern is really the possibility of brightness and thinking about it I can always EQ the treble with my AVR. Unless, I can gain greater output with 2 alternative subs within my price range.
That is what I would do. My S2 is loafing at reference. I think that an S1 could hit reference in your room.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:34 PM
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Rob I do that when I am playing music that isn't well recorded, which is a lot actually since I love metal. I pull down 2khz 1.5 db's and 4khz 2.5 db's on the manual MCACC eq settings on my receiver. I have found that harshness does not equal the really high frequencies like many people think, instead it's right around 4 khz.

I am very sensitive to harsh sounding speakers and I can assure you I NEVER get any listener fatigue whatsoever with my 212's. In fact, all they do is just keep sounding better during a listening session.

Carp, Thanks, this is definitely reassuring. I demoed a Klipsch rf-7 ii setup this weekend to listen to another horn based driver. I liked the 212s a lot better than the Klipsch reference. However, it was interesting to listen to another horn based speaker.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Depends on how loud you want to go!

The there 228ht will certainly outrun the single s1. Two s1 subs are more appropriate if you want to listen to refrence level playback with the subs several dB hot (like most of us like) in a 3500 cubic foot room.

Most of the time, I'll listen at moderate volume levels (5 to 10 db below reference on average). Occasionally, would like to listen at reference level (average 85db with typical movie soundtrack spikes i.e. action scenes). Can't see a situation where I'm running significantly hotter than reference. Is a single S1 just not enough for the occasional reference level with a movie? Two S1s is definitely outside the budget. Any other sub suggestions in a range of $2.5K for 2 subs that will keep up with the 228s?

I don't know of anything sealed that will more powerful as the S1 for less $ outside of DIY. Not anything SVS makes, not anything rythmik makes, not anything JL makes, not anything seaton makes. The S1 should be about as capable as a submersive hp. The trouble is lots of people end up wanting two Submersive HPs to get that last little fraction of spl and probably more importantly to smooth out the room response. I venture it'd be the same with the S1.

Do you run the subs hotter than the mains? I run my subs 6-9 dB hotter than the mains on most occasions. Sometimes more. I like to listen to movies at about -12. Demo scenes I'll crank to -5 or reference usually. My ported cap pair are good for this setup to reference (subs playing 6 or 9 dB above reference) , but the S1 will lose quite a bit to the ported cap around its tune of 20hz -- which is important for movie playback. We had a couple S1's in my room for the 2012 KC blind subwoofer shootout linked in my signature. We played clips just above reference in my 3500 cubic foot room during the standardized playlist when you account for the fact the subs were running hotter than the mains -- and they did fine - nobody complained at all of any bad sounds -- in fact the s1's placed 1st place for movies --- so I know two will do it,one should come pretty close if it doesn't succeed.

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Old 04-29-2013, 08:15 PM
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I don't know of anything sealed that will more powerful as the S1 for less $ outside of DIY. Not anything SVS makes, not anything rythmik makes, not anything JL makes, not anything seaton makes. The S1 should be about as capable as a submersive hp. The trouble is lots of people end up wanting two Submersive HPs to get that last little fraction of spl and probably more importantly to smooth out the room response. I venture it'd be the same with the S1.

Do you run the subs hotter than the mains? I run my subs 6-9 dB hotter than the mains on most occasions. Sometimes more. I like to listen to movies at about -12. Demo scenes I'll crank to -5 or reference usually. My ported cap pair are good for this setup to reference (subs playing 6 or 9 dB above reference) , but the S1 will lose quite a bit to the ported cap around its tune of 20hz -- which is important for movie playback. We had a couple S1's in my room for the 2012 KC blind subwoofer shootout linked in my signature. We played clips just above reference in my 3500 cubic foot room during the standardized playlist when you account for the fact the subs were running hotter than the mains -- and they did fine - nobody complained at all of any bad sounds -- in fact the s1's placed 1st place for movies --- so I know two will do it,one should come pretty close if it doesn't succeed.

Thanks. I have an SVS PC12-Plus (newer amp) and I run it 2db hotter than the mains, however, at the same level with the center speaker. I also use Dynamic EQ (0db film ref) with action movies to give the sub an extra push. I like the cylinder due to its small footprint. Even though my room is nice sized, my front wall is only 12 feet wide, thus, real estate is at a premium and I position my sub along the front side wall.

I'm excited about the prospects of continuing to read about the Noesis 228s and the S1, as well as, I'm hoping to take a second listen to the Noesis in the not to distant future. Compared to my setup today, I'm sure the S1 will provide plenty of action and like I said, its on rare occasion that I would push the system to reference level. I'm more in alignment with you with a -12 playback range. Worst case scenario is if I yearn for more bass, I'll go back for more.

Once again thanks for giving me the insights on the S1's performance with the Noesis 228s. It's great information.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:44 PM
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Rob, back in November I contacted Jeff about buying a S1 because I really wanted a sealed sub too. I didn't end up getting one but I am waiting for the arrival of my three 228HT's speakers. In the end I went with dual XS30's from PSA, they are a dual opposed 15 design almost like a mini SubM HP (if you aren't familiar with PSA). I know a single one won't hang with a single S1 but I'm pretty sure my dual XS30's would give a single S1 a pretty good run for the money and they still cost less then a single S1. The XS30's can hit 122db so they have some pretty good output, they be worth taking a look at something like that, or maybe dual F25's from Rythmik?

I watch movies basically at the same levels you do, once I get my 228HT's I could let you know how the XS30's do keeping up with 228HT's once I've had them for a while.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Funky Waves might be something else to consider. He has a couple designs based on a sealed LMS-5400 which is another one of the best 18" drivers available.

http://funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_18_0

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Old 04-29-2013, 09:51 PM
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I'm pretty sure they go by Funkaudio now www.funkaudio.ca , and Nathan's cheapest 18" offering is the 18.0C and it's $1900 for a single 18. http://funkaudio.ca/18.0C_Overview.htm

It was also another sub that I was considering because they are only about an hour from where I live. But duals would have costed me $3600 and I don't think they would have offered a big difference in output for the extra $1500 it would have costed me. But they do make gorgeous subs!

The cheapest sub Nathan offers is the 15.0 and its $1566 for one. Sometimes I do wonder "what if" while thinking about the Funkaudio subs, but I must say I've been pretty happy so far with the XS30's.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:57 PM
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Would love to hear these but their kinda the ugly duckling of speakers. What makes these the best speakers at this $1100 price?
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

Would love to hear these but their kinda the ugly duckling of speakers. What makes these the best speakers at this $1100 price?

Ryder, you're located in the interior aren't you? Once I get mine you're welcome to come hear them if you feel like taking a road trip.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Ryder, you're located in the interior aren't you? Once I get mine you're welcome to come hear them if you feel like taking a road trip.

I might take you up on that, where in the interior are you? I might be moving to Alberta soon so a bit of a trip through BC might be coming soon. Been hearing a lot of good about JTR speakers would be cool to see how the Sierra-1 NrT stands up to them with them both being Internet direct and the same price. Sounds like you got some solid speakers on the way.
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