JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint. - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #541 of 601 Old 12-23-2014, 11:12 AM
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I get a good bit of information from the threads; however I'd like to look at the spec's of 228HT and its big brother but the JTR website is either down or painfully slow. Is there another source? I'm assuming they are still $1199? Anyone in the DC area with these? I've met several of you at Austins house about a year ago prior to one of your trips to PA for some blind testing. Got the itch to make a change ... currently running Triad Gold LCRs. Thanks - Chad
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post #542 of 601 Old 12-23-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post
I get a good bit of information from the threads; however I'd like to look at the spec's of 228HT and its big brother but the JTR website is either down or painfully slow. Is there another source? I'm assuming they are still $1199? Anyone in the DC area with these? I've met several of you at Austins house about a year ago prior to one of your trips to PA for some blind testing. Got the itch to make a change ... currently running Triad Gold LCRs. Thanks - Chad
@avgorder owns the 228HT...If he still lives in Herndon, VA, he might be able to help with a demo.
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post #543 of 601 Old 12-23-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
@avgorder owns the 228HT...If he still lives in Herndon, VA, he might be able to help with a demo.
Thanks .. I'll PM him. Based on your signature, I'm assuming you have the 212? Were you at Austins about a year ago when he was torturing a 24" SI (w/o a box)?
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post #544 of 601 Old 12-23-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post
Thanks .. I'll PM him. Based on your signature, I'm assuming you have the 212? Were you at Austins about a year ago when he was torturing a 24" SI (w/o a box)?
Yes I still live in Herndon,VA. You are welcome for a demo any time..

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JTR 228 x 3
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post #545 of 601 Old 12-23-2014, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post
Thanks .. I'll PM him. Based on your signature, I'm assuming you have the 212? Were you at Austins about a year ago when he was torturing a 24" SI (w/o a box)?
Yes, was there...by torture...you mean the wobble wobble

edit: yes, I have the 212HT as LCR

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post #546 of 601 Old 12-23-2014, 04:16 PM
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Yes I still live in Herndon,VA. You are welcome for a demo any time..
You still have to come over man...
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post #547 of 601 Old 12-23-2014, 05:55 PM
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asoofi1,

I will definitely visit you in the coming days, been thinking of it since a long time.

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #548 of 601 Old 03-31-2015, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Those were my Triple 12's and they have the latest Triple's compression driver and crossover. If you are up to the long drive it might be worth it and yes, you can easily move the coaxial to the upper position.

If you decide to do that let me know and you can come by for a quick demo of the 215RT's ...
RMK is move the coax as easy as unscrewing the driver, pulling it out and disconnecting? Or is there a trick or some caution I should use? I'm thinking of setting the front L&R 212th-lp's on my submerssive's but had Jeff put the CD in the top when they were made. I'm going to set all the subs and speakers up in the new config, run audessy and see what I think before moving drivers.
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post #549 of 601 Old 03-31-2015, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron5 View Post
RMK is move the coax as easy as unscrewing the driver, pulling it out and disconnecting? Or is there a trick or some caution I should use? I'm thinking of setting the front L&R 212th-lp's on my submerssive's but had Jeff put the CD in the top when they were made. I'm going to set all the subs and speakers up in the new config, run audessy and see what I think before moving drivers.
Are these Triple 12HT-LP's or Noesis 212HT-LP's? if Noesis then no dice as the horn mount is different than the woofer.

If they are T12 HT-LP'S then basically yes, it's just that easy. The only issue is making sure that the speaker lead wires are long enough to reach the new locations of the Coaxial and Woofer. The wires are different colors to be sure to write down which is which. If you're lucky the coax is close to the crossover. Take it out first and be careful as you may need to gently pry it loose from the cabinet.

BTW, I had my Noesis 212HT-LP's on top of Orbit Shifters and with 3.5" Great Grammas under the 212's and no issues so you might be good just as they are. Those Submersives are so inert you can put the speakers right on them with maybe some felt underneath.

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post #550 of 601 Old 03-31-2015, 08:25 PM
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Wow, thanks for the quick response rmk.

Sorry, it's the Triple 12 HT- lp. I just got back down from setting them up. I screwed up setting up the room and put all the speakers and hdmi runs in the front right corner so it's a little crowded over there. Sur looks imposing with all those huge drivers...
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post #551 of 601 Old 04-02-2015, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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In case anyone is interested in 228HT, but wants an atypical discount. It appears Jeff is hosting a moving sale! There are three new 228HT on sale for 20% off. That's very close to original pre-order pricing!
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...dit-41-7350054

----------------------------------------
February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl
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post #552 of 601 Old 04-08-2015, 06:06 PM
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Guys I'm looking at upgrading my sound system consisting of, a bk monolith 300watt rms, and monitor audio bx2 package, iv just upgraded my projector to a 4k sony and thinking il need to upgrade the sound to match the picture quality , I'm looking at selling my speakers/sub and getting a captivator 1400 (maybe 2) and the noesis 228ht as my front left, center and right (not to sure what to do about rears), will this be a worthy upgrade and what kind of amplification do you think il need to power all of this
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post #553 of 601 Old 04-09-2015, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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It will be a phenomenal setup for cinema and music!

An AVR serves well till screaming volume levels with the very the very efficient Noesis.

Get two caps.
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post #554 of 601 Old 04-12-2015, 12:50 AM
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Has anyone gotten to listen to both the 228 and the RA cx-15? Just wondering since they are roughly the same price.
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post #555 of 601 Old 04-12-2015, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Has anyone gotten to listen to both the 228 and the RA cx-15? Just wondering since they are roughly the same price.
send @jbrown15 a PM. I think he's owned both
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post #556 of 601 Old 04-12-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Has anyone gotten to listen to both the 228 and the RA cx-15? Just wondering since they are roughly the same price.

I personally liked the CX-15's better which led to me selling my 228's. I still believe the 228's are one of the best speakers around at it's price point and even above that, I just think the CX-15's are slightly better.


Here's the thread from the second GTG that I hosted which actually was a double blind listening audition, just thought we'd try it out for fun.
Anyways from what I recall without actually going back and reading over the thread almost everyone there preferred the CX-15's over the 228's too.
Vancouver GTG round 2.


If I was doing it all over again today though I'd seriously be considering the CX-12 speakers from Reaction Audio. 4' narrower and can play almost as low and still have awesome mid bass, and a pair of them is only $1700 shipped. You could actually get an LCR setup of CX-12t's for less then a pair of 228HT's.
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post #557 of 601 Old 04-12-2015, 01:11 PM
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Hey there, jbrown. My PMs have been having trouble getting to a few fellas. Did you get the last one I sent with further questions about the above?
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post #558 of 601 Old 04-12-2015, 01:34 PM
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Hey there, jbrown. My PMs have been having trouble getting to a few fellas. Did you get the last one I sent with further questions about the above?

The last pm I received was on 03/29/15 but we were discussing RA subs. So if you've sent me some PM's about speakers I never got them.
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post #559 of 601 Old 04-12-2015, 05:26 PM
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Copy that. Just zipped you a PM. I SHOULD be all good again.
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post #560 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Has anyone gotten to listen to both the 228 and the RA cx-15? Just wondering since they are roughly the same price.
I think it is really important to have perspective on this. There are differences in component quality that lead to performance delta's.

Below are the RA CX10 crossover:


And a JTR Noesis crossover:



Now, the actual audible differences in these two crossovers may be difficult to hear and something like enhanced midbass might be more important to someone based upon their personal preferences. While audible differences may be subjectively small the differences in built quality and engineering of these two effectively hidden components is very apparent.

For me, it's like the difference between an Omega watch and a Casio. Both keep time and from a pure utility standpoint may be indistinguishable. But when I wear a watch I have a 35 year old Omega on my wrist and I like that.

Opinions are not facts.

Last edited by RMK!; 05-30-2015 at 06:03 PM.
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post #561 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I think it is really important to have perspective on this. There are differences in component quality that lead to performance delta's.

Below are the RA CX10 crossover:


And a JTR Noesis crossover:



Now, the actual audible differences in these two crossovers may be difficult to hear and something like enhanced midbass might be more important to someone based upon their personal preferences. While audible differences may be subjectively small the differences in built quality and engineering of these two effectively hidden components is very apparent.

For me, it's like the difference between an Omega watch and a Casio. Both keep time and from a pure utility standpoint may be indistinguishable. But when I wear a watch I have a 35 year old Omega on my wrist. I like.
Sorry Rob but I'm a watch guy too, have a very nice Omega, a Rolex and a few other nice watches and your Omega to Casio analogy is a poor example to use in my honest opinion having owner 228HT's and also owning CX-15's.


First my crossovers in my 228's didn't look like those one, those look like crossovers from the 212HT and being that it's a 3-way design that would explain why there's so many components on the board. Just because Jeremy tries to keep the crossover design clean and simple doesn't reflect on the build quality or sound. Take a look at Erich's DIY boards for his coax designs, they are also very similar component wise to Jeremy's coax designs.


For me personally having heard both and measured both, the CX-15's measured better in my room than the 228's did. I still loved the 228's though and really only sold them because of the obvious difference in mid bass slam between the two. But with that said don't judge the 2-way crossover design in the CX line of speakers just because they don't have as many components on the boards. RA still uses very high quality components like hand wound air core inductors. And both speakers still sound great in my opinion but just because the CX-15's have a simpler design doesn't mean they aren't high quality like your Omega watch.
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post #562 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 11:35 AM
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Rob if you wanted to compare crossovers between JTR and RA you would probably have to use a S8 as example seeing the its a 2-way coax design like all of RA's. I sure if we did that we'd see a design much closer to the CX crossover rather than the 3-way 212HT design that you posted.
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post #563 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 11:48 AM
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Fancy meeting you here JB ...

First, I am not a "watch guy". I have one 35 year old watch that I bought new when I was young after a relatively good year monetarily speaking. I was simply pointing out there are differences in what components are used and how they are implemented. Ultimately, a speaker (like a watch) is the sum of it's parts. I'm glad we can all express our subjective preferences here.

Opinions are not facts.
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post #564 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 11:54 AM
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JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint.

I very much agree that Jeff makes awesome crossovers but if we're being fair let's try to compare apples to apples. And for that we'd need to compare the S8 or Slant 8 crossover to any of the RA crossovers as all of those speakers are coax designs with single woofers and tweeters.

I'm just trying to keep things relative and in perspective.
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post #565 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 12:36 PM
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Sorry for the intrusion.

The quality of a crossover is not determined by it's number of parts. (In fact some would argue the opposite) :Rather the quality of the parts used and the design being a right fit for the speaker.
Neither an elaborate or simple approach is right or wrong, it is what is right for the speaker.

I see quality parts on each:

On the CX crossover: Hand wound, large wire, air core conductors, Solen and WIMA capacitors.
On the other, Lots of Solen caps (very good) and a mix of air core and iron core inductors.

If you are looking at a three way (or more) design, the part count goes up. If you add in notch filtering, part count goes up. All passive crossovers create some insertion loss. Every part in the chain will have an effect. The inductor usually being the biggest offender.

I am also confused by the "enhanced mid-bass" comment? You cannot boost on a passive crossover, you can only cut frequencies using passive filters.

Again, sorry for the intrusion (apologies Jeff) but your comment was in regards to component quality, yet the contrast you drew was only to point out a greater number of components on a board pictured. Which is not the measure of quality, rather the differences in design to get the desired performance of the speaker in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I think it is really important to have perspective on this. There are differences in component quality that lead to performance delta's.

Below are the RA CX10 crossover:


And a JTR Noesis crossover:



Now, the actual audible differences in these two crossovers may be difficult to hear and something like enhanced midbass might be more important to someone based upon their personal preferences. While audible differences may be subjectively small the differences in built quality and engineering of these two effectively hidden components is very apparent.

For me, it's like the difference between an Omega watch and a Casio. Both keep time and from a pure utility standpoint may be indistinguishable. But when I wear a watch I have a 35 year old Omega on my wrist. I like.

Jeremy
Reaction Audio Subwoofers

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post #566 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I very much agree that Jeff makes awesome crossovers but if we're being fair let's try to compare apples to apples. And for that we'd need to compare the S8 or Slant 8 crossover to any of the RA crossovers as all of those speakers are coax designs with single woofers and tweeters.

I'm just trying to keep things relative and in perspective.
I was merely illustrating a point and this was prompted by the very simple looking crossover that I saw posted in the RA Thread. I think an honest BOM comparison between the speakers in question would reveal a significant delta. I'm sure that the component count or even build quality is not an absolute indicator of sound quality relative to crossovers/speakers but it does make an impression (good or bad).

I'm sure the RA speakers sound good and I think Jeremy is a fair and reasonable guy. His speakers are inexpensive and I know there is a market for affordable HT speakers. I know people who have heard both speakers in question and they have a different opinion than you JB. So it goes in audio.

Opinions are not facts.
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post #567 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I was merely illustrating a point and this was prompted by the very simple looking crossover that I saw posted in the RA Thread. I think an honest BOM comparison between the speakers in question would reveal a significant delta. I'm sure that the component count or even build quality is not an absolute indicator of sound quality relative to crossovers/speakers but it does make an impression (good or bad).

I'm sure the RA speakers sound good and I think Jeremy is a fair and reasonable guy. His speakers are inexpensive and I know there is a market for affordable HT speakers. I know people who have heard both speakers in question and they have a different opinion than you JB. So it goes in audio.

I completely agree, but I would also say that I've had people hear the CX-15's compared to the 228's in a double blind listening GTG at my house along with three other pairs of speakers. And I think you'd be surprise as to what speaker was the clear favorite between the 15's and 228 from the 6-7 guys that were there. But as always sound is very subjective so I would never try to say that one was better than the other, just state that for me I preferred one over the other but YMMV.


Keep in mind though Rob that I've only said that I preferred the CX-15's over my 228's, I've stated several times now that if I had originally owned 212HT's I would probably have never gone looking for new speakers. But because I wanted more mid bass I sold the 228's and moved on. I would think the 212HT's are a better speaker then the CX-15's, but they are also twice the price so it's all relative right.

Last edited by jbrown15; 05-30-2015 at 04:12 PM.
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post #568 of 601 Old 05-30-2015, 05:01 PM
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The Slanted 8 does appear to be more complex





then the CX-10



Chris
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post #569 of 601 Old 05-31-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I completely agree, but I would also say that I've had people hear the CX-15's compared to the 228's in a double blind listening GTG at my house along with three other pairs of speakers.
Can you describe each step taken(in detail) in this "double blind" session to ensure *no one* present knew which speakers were in use? Also, what steps to ensure level matching? At this point there seems to be clear bias involved in many posts(which is human nature after all). How was this removed from these sessions?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #570 of 601 Old 05-31-2015, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Can you describe each step taken(in detail) in this "double blind" session to ensure *no one* present knew which speakers were in use? Also, what steps to ensure level matching? At this point there seems to be clear bias involved in many posts(which is human nature after all). How was this removed from these sessions?



Tom V.

Power Sound Audio

Sure, go read the thread where we talked about it. It's all in the thread.
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