JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Speakers > JTR Noesis 228HT - The best speaker you never heard of for ~ $1200 pricepoint.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 05:26 PM 02-21-2013
You'll also be out an extra 3 grand going with 228hts tongue.gif you could get the 228hts and a S2 or Orbit Shifter for the same price.biggrin.gif

carp's Avatar carp 05:59 PM 02-21-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

You'll also be out an extra 3 grand going with 212hts:p you could get the 228hts and a S2 or Orbit Shifter for the same price.biggrin.gif

Damn, that does put it into perspective...

But, he'd "only" be out 1800 vs the triple 12's. It's so easy to spend other people's money!! smile.gif

Yeah, the responsible thing to do would be get 3 228's.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 01:53 AM 02-22-2013
I would love to go with the 212HTs over the 228HTs, but with the taxes I'll have to pay bringing them into Canada the price difference would be almost 4 grand eek.gif and I just can't stomach that kind of money right now in this point of my life. Not to mention having to worry about my wife killing me if she ever found out I had spent over 7 grand on three speakers! LOL.
Kain's Avatar Kain 04:46 AM 02-22-2013
Is there a "minimum room size" for the 212HT for it to sound its best? Does the 228HT sound better (i.e. more suited) in small rooms?
RMK!'s Avatar RMK! 08:31 AM 02-22-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Is there a "minimum room size" for the 212HT for it to sound its best? Does the 228HT sound better (i.e. more suited) in small rooms?

See the dispersion pattern diagram (above) for the 60/40 horn coverage. That applies to either speaker. The differences will be in SQ, mid-range and overall SPL with the 212 having the edge in all three. As to what is the actual performance delta, this Thread provides the best data.
digital911's Avatar digital911 11:04 PM 02-23-2013
Is this supposed to be a floorstander?

If so how does it compare to something like this : http://www.tektondesign.com/pendragon.html
?
pokekevin's Avatar pokekevin 11:57 PM 02-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by digital911 View Post

Is this supposed to be a floorstander?

If so how does it compare to something like this : http://www.tektondesign.com/pendragon.html
?


Hmm with 8in drivers I'd like to think of it as a satellite speaker / LCR. What say you Carp?

On the other hand, the Pendragon HT package shipped costs $6500 which is VERY attractive imho. (that and the 228 are on my short list of potential upgrades)
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 12:20 AM 02-24-2013
Are the Pendragon's priced per pair, or is that price per each? If they're priced per each wouldn't want to compare then to the Noesis 212ht?
pokekevin's Avatar pokekevin 12:23 AM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Are the Pendragon's priced per pair, or is that price per each? If they're priced per each wouldn't want to compare then to the Noesis 212ht?

I believe they are priced per pair
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 12:29 AM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by digital911 View Post

Is this supposed to be a floorstander?

If so how does it compare to something like this : http://www.tektondesign.com/pendragon.html
?

The 228 is not designed to be a floorstander. It is expected that it will be used with a sub as it only goes down to 70 hz. The Pendragon achieves similar specifications by using pro woofers and 3 tweeters to keep up with them. Jeff uses a compression driver and horn that do not need multiples to keep up with the dual woofers. While I have no doubt that the Pendragon is a nice speaker, it does have the drawback of being vented to the rear which means it must be placed away from the wall, limiting its placement options, especially for people who want to use it behind a screen, and if used with a decent sub (JTR's sub offerings are far superior to the subs that the reviewer of the Pendragons owns), much of the low extension would be wasted. It also does not have the controlled directivity of the Noesis line.

My guess is that Jeff has a smaller markup than the manufacturer of the Pendragon as the compression driver probably costs more than the 3 tweeters used and that the Baltic Birch plywood is more expensive than the MDF that was likely used in the Pendragon, so you are likely getting more speaker for your money with JTR.

In the end, it would probably come down to personal preference. Any comparison based on specifications is purely academic. Since there is only one pair of 228's in existence, it is certain that no one has compared these speakers in a controlled setting, so who knows how they would stack up.
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 06:41 AM 02-24-2013
I ran Audyssey last night on the 228ht and I am happy to report Jeff's stated 70Hz crossover point is exactly what was assigned by audyssey. In the exact same position the eD cinema 12 always were registered as 120Hz or 150Hz crossover points.

That said you still shouldn't run these 228ht without a sub, because there is no low end bass produced by these speakers in full range mode.
countryWV's Avatar countryWV 06:54 AM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


That said you still shouldn't run these 228ht without a sub, because there is no low end bass produced by these speakers in full range mode.
IT should be a noted rule that running all JTR Speakers with a subwoofer is a requirement not a suggestion. smile.gif
Chris
RMK!'s Avatar RMK! 08:50 AM 02-24-2013
I don't know what more Jeff could do as he lists the FR of all of the speakers. As you know the high effiency and SPL come at the cost of LF extension. A good trade IMHO.

Can you imagine an HT without subs?
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 09:26 AM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I don't know what more Jeff could do as he lists the FR of all of the speakers. As you know the high effiency and SPL come at the cost of LF extension. A good trade IMHO.

Can you imagine an HT without subs?
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't movies mixed expecting theaters to use subs. I am pretty sure the surround speakers in commercial theaters are not full range. I am not sure about the fronts.
countryWV's Avatar countryWV 09:57 AM 02-24-2013
Depends on the theater but most have surrounds capable of digging down in the 30's and they also use subs with full-range fronts. Their goal is quanity over quality for the most part. That is why alot of great movies are mixed with nothing below the 30hz range. Still it will be completely different from theater to theater as technology is changing so fast making it hard for the smaller private owned ones to keep up. I personally never go anymore except on rare out of town occasions to an IMAX. Mine is much better than my local options.
Completely subjective 2 cents
Chris
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 10:48 AM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Depends on the theater but most have surrounds capable of digging down in the 30's and they also use subs with full-range fronts. Their goal is quanity over quality for the most part. That is why alot of great movies are mixed with nothing below the 30hz range. Still it will be completely different from theater to theater as technology is changing so fast making it hard for the smaller private owned ones to keep up. I personally never go anymore except on rare out of town occasions to an IMAX. Mine is much better than my local options.
Completely subjective 2 cents
Chris
I certainly agree that the JTR sound blows the local small theaters away. I can't wait for the 228's to show up to further improve it. However, the bigger upgrade in my case will be the ability to move my T8's to surround duty, as there is not much missing in my current front stage.
mrlittlejeans's Avatar mrlittlejeans 11:11 AM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

The 228 is not designed to be a floorstander. It is expected that it will be used with a sub as it only goes down to 70 hz. The Pendragon achieves similar specifications by using pro woofers and 3 tweeters to keep up with them. Jeff uses a compression driver and horn that do not need multiples to keep up with the dual woofers. While I have no doubt that the Pendragon is a nice speaker, it does have the drawback of being vented to the rear which means it must be placed away from the wall, limiting its placement options, especially for people who want to use it behind a screen, and if used with a decent sub (JTR's sub offerings are far superior to the subs that the reviewer of the Pendragons owns), much of the low extension would be wasted. It also does not have the controlled directivity of the Noesis line.

My guess is that Jeff has a smaller markup than the manufacturer of the Pendragon as the compression driver probably costs more than the 3 tweeters used and that the Baltic Birch plywood is more expensive than the MDF that was likely used in the Pendragon, so you are likely getting more speaker for your money with JTR.

In the end, it would probably come down to personal preference. Any comparison based on specifications is purely academic. Since there is only one pair of 228's in existence, it is certain that no one has compared these speakers in a controlled setting, so who knows how they would stack up.

I think the price would be similar once the 228's special pricing ends. The Pendragons are full range so they could be used in a two channel system without a sub if desired. The finish on the Pendragons is also quite nice and would look good in a non-dedicated theater room. The review they got from Andrew Robinson is pretty impressive as well. They've sparked my interest.
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 01:19 PM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I think the price would be similar once the 228's special pricing ends. The Pendragons are full range so they could be used in a two channel system without a sub if desired. The finish on the Pendragons is also quite nice and would look good in a non-dedicated theater room. The review they got from Andrew Robinson is pretty impressive as well. They've sparked my interest.
Yes it is good to see that other companies are realizing the benefits of professional inspired designs and components for commercial use, rather than the typical 89 db sensitivity offerings paired with overpriced underpowered receivers and snake oil cables.
NYGIANTSFAN23's Avatar NYGIANTSFAN23 01:19 PM 02-24-2013
Well fellas thanks to Carp and a conversation with Jeff, I pulled the trigger last night and purchased the 228's. I figured at that pre sale price, if they don't work out for me I can always sell them and get good money for them and get the triple 12's. Thanks for all the info by all who assisted me with this purchase. Now it's on to my next quest for rears, receiver, amp, and subwoofer.
carp's Avatar carp 01:27 PM 02-24-2013
How can those Pendragons have a sensitivity of 98 yet dip down to 20hz? Is that possible in a speaker that size? I thought you had to give up either frequency response or sensitivity.
carp's Avatar carp 01:32 PM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGIANTSFAN23 View Post

Well fellas thanks to Carp and a conversation with Jeff, I pulled the trigger last night and purchased the 228's. I figured at that pre sale price, if they don't work out for me I can always sell them and get good money for them and get the triple 12's. Thanks for all the info by all who assisted me with this purchase. Now it's on to my next quest for rears, receiver, amp, and subwoofer.

NICE!!! Congrats man, I think you will really like them. Like you say if you don't it shouldn't be hard to sell them.
carp's Avatar carp 01:40 PM 02-24-2013
I still think I might get a pair eventually for my side surrounds. I've seen people posting that they wouldn't work well for surrounds, but my side surrounds are 8 feet from my LP and directly to the side of my head so in my selfish sweet spot they would work fine right? I'll leave the rear surrounds as is (eD Cinema 6's).

Here is looking directly to my left from the main LP




Looking to the right







Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 02:18 PM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGIANTSFAN23 View Post

Well fellas thanks to Carp and a conversation with Jeff, I pulled the trigger last night and purchased the 228's. I figured at that pre sale price, if they don't work out for me I can always sell them and get good money for them and get the triple 12's. Thanks for all the info by all who assisted me with this purchase. Now it's on to my next quest for rears, receiver, amp, and subwoofer.
Congratulations. I am sure you will love them. Consider JTR for subs and surrounds. Just like the 228 great value for the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I still think I might get a pair eventually for my side surrounds. I've seen people posting that they wouldn't work well for surrounds, but my side surrounds are 8 feet from my LP and directly to the side of my head so in my selfish sweet spot they would work fine right? I'll leave the rear surrounds as is (eD Cinema 6's).

Here is looking directly to my left from the main LP




Looking to the right







I can't see a reason why these wouldn't work for you as surrounds. For me, with my smaller room and the surrounds so close, I would have trouble reaching all the seats.
NYGIANTSFAN23's Avatar NYGIANTSFAN23 02:30 PM 02-24-2013
Nice Carp.. I am looking to basically conceal all of my speakers. As of right now my room is a shell. So the plan is to do a bump out for the sides and possibly hide them in columns. BIGMOUTHDC is going to build my theatre for me so i am hoping to get his expertise on where and how to set things up.
carp's Avatar carp 02:37 PM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGIANTSFAN23 View Post

Nice Carp.. I am looking to basically conceal all of my speakers. As of right now my room is a shell. So the plan is to do a bump out for the sides and possibly hide them in columns. BIGMOUTHDC is going to build my theatre for me so i am hoping to get his expertise on where and how to set things up.

That's going to look great! Are you going to have a thread showing the progress on the Dedicated Theater Design and Construction section?
HTPCat's Avatar HTPCat 03:21 PM 02-24-2013
How close to front soundstage wall can the 228's be placed? Can they be placed horizontal for a center speaker?
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 04:05 PM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

How close to front soundstage wall can the 228's be placed? Can they be placed horizontal for a center speaker?
They are completely front firing so they can be placed right on the wall. The horn is rotatable, so they can be placed horizontal as a center speaker.
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 04:05 PM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

How close to front soundstage wall can the 228's be placed? Can they be placed horizontal for a center speaker?

Since they are front ported you can put them right up against the wall (aside from the speaker terminal posts that stick out say 3/4" from the back. Mine are a good foot away from the wall and Audyssey picked them up as 70hz crossovers my very first run (only run I've done) Still not sure if I like Audyssey yet over just default EQ.confused.gif

Yes the 228HT can be horizontal or vertical just by rotating the horn. It's a square outside, but a 60x40 disperson pattern inside, so if you use it as a horizontal center you'd probably turn the horn 90* to have a wider throw. If you specifiy what you want then Jeff can just build it that way from the get go.
HTPCat's Avatar HTPCat 07:17 PM 02-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Since they are front ported you can put them right up against the wall (aside from the speaker terminal posts that stick out say 3/4" from the back. Mine are a good foot away from the wall and Audyssey picked them up as 70hz crossovers my very first run (only run I've done) Still not sure if I like Audyssey yet over just default EQ.confused.gif

Yes the 228HT can be horizontal or vertical just by rotating the horn. It's a square outside, but a 60x40 disperson pattern inside, so if you use it as a horizontal center you'd probably turn the horn 90* to have a wider throw. If you specifiy what you want then Jeff can just build it that way from the get go.

Thanks for the responses, now I just have to convince the wife that I need to replace my front soundstage after just convincing her that I needed a new sub eek.gif
FWIW I love what Audyssey XT32 & the pro kit do for my room biggrin.gif.
Dbuudo07's Avatar Dbuudo07 09:08 AM 02-26-2013
" How can those Pendragons have a sensitivity of 98 yet dip down to 20hz? Is that possible in a speaker that size? I thought you had to give up either frequency response or sensitivity."

Carp, I thought this too. I'm guessing that there will be gobs of compression as the volume increases. I cant imagine everything will remain linear as you push them.
Tags: Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
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