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post #1 of 17 Old 02-25-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I purchased the Polk rti12's for fronts, csi5 center, and rti6 pair for surround. I also have the psw 111 for the sub. The problem I have is that I get almost no bass from the rti12's. No more than my bookshelf speakers. I have an onkyo txnr 808. Which is a solid receiver. I then read some posts that recommended getting a separate amp. I then bought a Denon poa 2200. It is a 2 channel amp at 220wats at 8 ohms. It made a bit of difference but very little. I used audysey on the receiver. I then use the amps equalizer function and set the low end to +6 db, and still not much. My question is what else can I do. The only thing I can think of is via bi biamping the high end from the receiver and the low end just from the amp. I will do it if that helps but it takes me a bit of work to get to the amp due to the way I built the av stand.
Any advice would be greatly welcomed. I read on the forum that people get great bass from these and the very similar rtia9 but I have no idea how.

Thank you
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post #2 of 17 Old 02-25-2013, 11:31 AM
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I'm thinking this is a problem with your Audyssey calibration. What are your speaker levels set at after Audyssey? Where are your crossovers set?

The external amp is probably not helping you much, if at all. Your receiver is more than capable of driving those speakers to reference level and then some (135w per ch).

When you enable the "equalizer function" on your receiver, you are defeating Audyssey - you shouldn't do that.

When you say that you get almost no bass from your mains, are you still getting bass from the sub? How can you tell the mains are low on bass?

Just FYI - your sub is way outclassed by your mains - you've got a ~$200 sub running with >$1500 speakers, you should look into an upgrade! wink.gif

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post #3 of 17 Old 02-25-2013, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for taking the time to help me with this problem. I have my speaker set to full range, center at 40hz, surrounds at 40hzn crossover. Actually that is what Auddesey set them to. The reason I know that there is very little bass in the fronts, is that when I turn off the sub, you here almost no bass in the fronts.
I am not crazy about the sub, but Polk had a deal that when I bought the fronts, the sub was free. Hard to pass that up.
My fustration is that I saved up for a year for the discretionary money on finally geting a good audio system. Spent over $2k and I am not getting the bass from the fronts that I thought I should get.They do not have much more bass than my old onkyo speakers.
I am assuming I am probably doing something wrong. I already triple checked the polarity on the speaker wires and that is correct. Any advice would be helpful.

Thank you
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-25-2013, 01:20 PM
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OK, first thing you should do is set all speakers to small and all crossovers to 80hz. This alone should improve your overall bass response. However, your mains will not be outputting anything under 80hz and with the sub off will sound "thin" on bass - this is how it should be. Your sub should do what it was made for - take care of the lower frequencies - freeing up your mains to take care of the mid-bass and upper frequencies.

Do you have the "Double Bass" feature turned ON or OFF? Should be set to OFF, but you can set it to ON if you prefer it that way. "Double Bass" ON will only work if you have your mains set to "Full Band". See page 46 of your manual.

If you want to hear what your mains sound like with no bass management at all, set your mains to "Full Band", subwoofer to "NO" and Double Bass "OFF".

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post #5 of 17 Old 02-25-2013, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the advice. Alan you were spot on with the advice I guess those speakers are not ment to get real good bass. I have a second question, my receiver can handle a second sub, should I purchase a second sub and run them both together, in order to get more of a bass response. The second sub will not be the same one. I am looking at a klipisch sub that is on sale at amazon for a little over 300$. I appreciate the advice, this is not my field of expertise and want to get the best advice of what to do now. I wish I would have found this site before I purchased my system.
Thank you
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-25-2013, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post

Thank you for the advice. Alan you were spot on with the advice I guess those speakers are not ment to get real good bass...

Define "good bass"....? Seriously, many of us describe "good bass" quite differently. Do you like tight, mid-bass-centric, punch-in-the-chest bass - OR, do you like dig-deep, wall rattling, re-arange-your-intestines bass? It's all preference, man.

I'd be willing to bet - just going by your speakers specs - that they produce pretty "accurate" bass. Most folks aren't crazy about "accurate" bass. We humans tend to prefer (scientifically proven) a rise in low frequencies as relative to the higher frequencies. Read up a little on the House Curve.
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I have a second question, my receiver can handle a second sub, should I purchase a second sub and run them both together, in order to get more of a bass response. The second sub will not be the same one.

Dual subs will increase output, but only slighty - approximately 6db. The big advantage of multiple subs is the taming of room modes and smoothing of response over a wider area. Dual subs can be challenging to get set up correctly...with mis-matched subs it becomes even more difficult to get them to work "just right" together. I'm not saying it can't be done, it most certainly can...it's just not easy. wink.gif
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I am looking at a klipisch sub that is on sale at amazon for a little over 300$.

Which Klipsch is it? Post the link if you can.
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I appreciate the advice, this is not my field of expertise and want to get the best advice of what to do now.

You're very welcome. My advice to you would be - if you can, sell the psw 111, plus the $300 you were gonna spend on a new sub and kick in maybe a bit more and get yourself a sub that you'll be proud of. biggrin.gif How large is your listening room anyway?
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I wish I would have found this site before I purchased my system.

Been there...done that. rolleyes.gif

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post #7 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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The listening area is a fairly large room 28' X 25'. The celing are fairly tall I think 13'. Would you recomend that I try Biamping the fronts with the highs from my onkyo receiver and the lows from my dedicated 2 channel amp Or would that be a waste of time. My receiver has the option of biamping.
The sub I am possible looking at if my wife doesn't kill me for wanting to spend another $300 on the audio system is the Klipsch rw12d. Would that sub make a big difference, I feel that the Polk PSW 111 sounds good, but with that being said I am a newbie this is my very first ever quality audio system. So I do not really know what good is supposed to sound like.

I listen to many different types of music and erverything sounds great with the speakers, except when I get to listen to pop music or electronic music in which bass is important, and it sounds like I am getting all my bass from the sub. When I turn the sub off the RTi12's have very little bass coming from them.I have spent hours playing with the setting on the receiver and still not much improvement.

Thanks
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 10:33 AM
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The listening area is a fairly large room 28' X 25'. The celing are fairly tall I think 13'.

Well, that's over 9000 cubic feet - a REALLY BIG SPACE! If you head over to the subwoofer sub forum and tell them that number, you'll get sub recommendations based off of it. For example: I have approximately 3600 cubic feet and I use dual PSA XS15s and I believe this is the bare minimum I would except for my space...I'm even thinking of adding another. cool.gif

Is your space open to other areas of the house? If so, your cubic footage is even greater than 9000. eek.gif

IMO, you're just not going to get good bass in a space that size without spending >$1K on a sub or (preferably) multiple subs....sorry. redface.gif
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Would you recomend that I try Biamping the fronts with the highs from my onkyo receiver and the lows from my dedicated 2 channel amp Or would that be a waste of time.

A waste of time.
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The sub I am possible looking at if my wife doesn't kill me for wanting to spend another $300 on the audio system is the Klipsch rw12d.

The RW-12D is widely considered a great entry-level sub. But in a space your size, it's probably not going to accomplish much unless you have it placed "near-field" (i.e. right next to your main listening position) and even then I wouldn't expect miracles.
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with that being said I am a newbie this is my very first ever quality audio system. So I do not really know what good is supposed to sound like.

Do you have any audio stores in your area where you could go and listen to some higher quality subs? Would give you an idea of what's possible.
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When I turn the sub off the RTi12's have very little bass coming from them.

This is because your bass management is turned on and everything below 80hz is being sent to the sub. When you turn off the sub, all of those lower frequencies are lost. In order to hear what your mains are capable in the bass department, you have to do what I suggested earlier:
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If you want to hear what your mains sound like with no bass management at all, set your mains to "Full Band", subwoofer to "NO" and Double Bass "OFF".
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when I get to listen to pop music or electronic music in which bass is important, and it sounds like I am getting all my bass from the sub

This is exactly how it's supposed to work. wink.gif Those tracks probably have more low frequency info than the others you listened to, making your sub more active - which probably doesn't sound all that great because you're trying to fill a GIANT space with a very under-powered sub. frown.gif

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post #9 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post

I have my speaker set to full range, center at 40hz, surrounds at 40hzn crossover.

They do not have much more bass than my old onkyo speakers.
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Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post

I guess those speakers are not ment to get real good bass.

Well, the RTi12 is a ported tower speaker with three woofers--it's kind of difficult to believe that they weren't intended to have decent bass output. Have you by chance checked the binding posts to make sure that there are two metallic "jumpers" between the high-frequency and low-frequency sections? If you're currently using a single amp for each speaker, then the binding posts of both sections need to be connected to it somehow.
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Well, that's over 9000 cubic feet - a REALLY BIG SPACE! If you head over to the subwoofer sub forum and tell them that number, you'll get sub recommendations based off of it. For example: I have approximately 3600 cubic feet and I use dual PSA XS15s and I believe this is the bare minimum I would except for my space...I'm even thinking of adding another. cool.gif

Is your space open to other areas of the house? If so, your cubic footage is even greater than 9000. eek.gif

IMO, you're just not going to get good bass in a space that size without spending >$1K on a sub or (preferably) multiple subs....sorry. redface.gif
A waste of time.
The RW-12D is widely considered a great entry-level sub. But in a space your size, it's probably not going to accomplish much unless you have it placed "near-field" (i.e. right next to your main listening position) and even then I wouldn't expect miracles.
Do you have any audio stores in your area where you could go and listen to some higher quality subs? Would give you an idea of what's possible.
This is because your bass management is turned on and everything below 80hz is being sent to the sub. When you turn off the sub, all of those lower frequencies are lost. In order to hear what your mains are capable in the bass department, you have to do what I suggested earlier:

This is exactly how it's supposed to work. wink.gif Those tracks probably have more low frequency info than the others you listened to, making your sub more active - which probably doesn't sound all that great because you're trying to fill a GIANT space with a very under-powered sub. frown.gif

Awesome advice. Also, you could be sitting in a bass null in your room. Trying pulling the speakers or couch in a few feet to see if that makes a difference. But you have to get the bass management right first.
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I first want to say I appreciate you taking time out of your day to help me out.
I do have the jumpers in on both speakers. All the woofers are moving when music is going to them. There is a liitle bit of bass coming out . I turn off the sub and I put my ear next to the ported vent I can hear a little bit of low end coming from the speakers. The room is a large room due to the living room and kitchen are together in one big room.It has wood floors. Which is one of the reason why I purchased the house several years ago. Maybe my expectations were too high. Before I purchased the speakers people had rave reviews on the sound, but some people did complain that they do not put out allot of bass. The sound of the speakers are awesome especially with the new amp. It just isn't that great when I listen to certain kinds of music the emphasis the low end.
I guess my option would be a good sub.
There is no way my wife will allow me to spend more than $400 to $500 dollars on a new sub, I was lucky to get the $2100 on what I have now.
Will there be a sub that would do the job for less than $500. Maybe if I run it as a 2 sub system since I can run 2 subs from my receiver.
Otherwise I may have to wait until next year to get the OK for the $1000 sub.

Thank you
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 01:13 PM
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No problem Paul.

Like I said, go start a thread over in the subwoofer forum and post your room size, speakers and budget and I'm sure the experts over there will tell you what you need.

Good luck!

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post #13 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post

I do have the jumpers in on both speakers.

Sorry, I just had to check. wink.gif
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Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post

I guess my option would be a good sub.
There is no way my wife will allow me to spend more than $400 to $500 dollars on a new sub, I was lucky to get the $2100 on what I have now.
Will there be a sub that would do the job for less than $500.

I'm not sure. I think that an SVS PB12-NSD or PC12-NSD or some of the Hsu Research subs could handle the job, but they're out of your price range. The PB-1000 is $499, but I doubt it would be enough. Check with the guys over in the subwoofer forum, and ask about these subs, the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, and the Premier Acoustic PA-150.
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Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post

Maybe if I run it as a 2 sub system since I can run 2 subs from my receiver.

Your PSW111 might help a little, but based on your room size and apparent expectations for bass, I think that you'd be happier with as high-end a sub as you can afford.
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Otherwise I may have to wait until next year to get the OK for the $1000 sub.

This may be the best strategy for you, although that's an awful long time to wait! frown.gif
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 05:08 PM
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With your room size, I would save up. For $549 you could get a Rythmik FV12R now and add a second one later.
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-26-2013, 06:39 PM
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With your room size, I would save up. For $549 you could get a Rythmik FV12R now and add a second one later.

Hmmm, sounds like a plan to me. cool.gif
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-27-2013, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Are there any subs that are at a good price on Amazon that would work. Why Amazon? I still have gift certificates from Christams from Amazon, that I could use for the sub, otherwise I am going to take your advice save up for a high end sub. I may also look at Rythmic sub mentioned above.
But if a good one is on Amazon, them that would cut down on allot of problems from the wife complaining on money spent in Audio .Being a newbie I do not know which brand of subs on Amazon are solid or not. I can only read reviews and many times the reviewers may be as novice as I am.
Like i said this is my first real audio system, so I do not know what good is supposed to sound like.
Thanks
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-27-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul112233 View Post

Are there any subs that are at a good price on Amazon that would work. Why Amazon? I still have gift certificates from Christams from Amazon, that I could use for the sub, otherwise I am going to take your advice save up for a high end sub. I may also look at Rythmic sub mentioned above.
But if a good one is on Amazon, them that would cut down on allot of problems from the wife complaining on money spent in Audio .Being a newbie I do not know which brand of subs on Amazon are solid or not. I can only read reviews and many times the reviewers may be as novice as I am.
Like i said this is my first real audio system, so I do not know what good is supposed to sound like.
Thanks

Like I said, go ask these questions in the subwoofer forum, you'll get some good recommendations fairly quickly.

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