Klipsch RW 12D with Denon 1913 - Not Recognizing. Help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I just set up the following -

1. Energy 5.0 speakers
2. Denon 1913 AVR
3. Klipsch RW 12d

As others have stated on this thread, inititally I did get a small thump on the sub. But after I ran Audyssey again after fully setting things up quite a few times, it won't recognize the Sub at all! I have tried setting the volumes on the sub from -20 - 0db no luck! Here are my settings -

1. I set the Speakers to SMALL

2. Bass -
Subwoofer mode - LFE+Main
LPF - 120hz

3. Distances seemed fine on all the speakers, but it had 13ft on the Sub which was right next to the left speakers which were set to 8ft.

4. Test tone -
Front L - 0 db
Front R - +0.5 db
Center - -0.5 db
Surround R - +1.0 db
Surround L - 0.5 db
Sub Woofer - 6 db

5. Crossover
Front - 80 Hz
Center - 80 Hz
Surround - 80hz

On the Sub -
6. Volume - -23db
7. Phase 0
8. LFE off

I am concerned and I hope its not the sub itself...Because there was a point when I got the thumps! Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Regards
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post #2 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

2. Bass -
Subwoofer mode - LFE+Main

This is your problem. LFE+Main with your FL/R set to small = no output to sub.

Set that to LFE and you should be good to go!
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post #3 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

LFE+Main with your FL/R set to small = no output to sub. !

the LFE & LFE+Main settings do not apply when speakers are set to small.

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post #4 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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So its possible that changing that to LFE should help?
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post #5 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

the LFE & LFE+Main settings do not apply when speakers are set to small.

Really? They sure effect the output on my AVR (Denon 2113ci). When I have the mains set to small and turn on LFE+Main I get absolutely no output (or very little output) from my sub unless I set the mains to large. confused.gif

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Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

So its possible that changing that to LFE should help?

It should, can't hurt to try.


EDIT: OK, holt is correct - the LFE+Main setting does nothing if your mains are set to small. Don't know what I was thinking!! rolleyes.gif
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post #6 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 02:23 PM
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OK, back to the OPs problem -

When you run your AVRs internal test tones, does the sub make noise? I'm assuming it does since you didn't say that Audyssey came up with an error and it actually set your sub level.

Not sure what you mean when you say " it won't recognize the Sub at all!" - did Audyssey detect your sub? Once again, I'm assuming it did since you listed a level for the sub.

Also, not quite sure what you mean when you say "no thump" - is the sub making noise at all? What program material are you using to test the sound of the sub?
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post #7 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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So - I have been running through the setup a few times. The Audyssey did detect the Sub once. At that time the sub wasn't loud at all and I barely heard a thump from it. But when I tried running it again - Audyssey hasn't detected the Sub since. The sub made no noise at all.

The level I showed was under the Test Tone under Manual setup at 6db.

I have tried the following -

1. Increasing the volume on the Sub itself.
2. Changed the crossovers for the Front, Center & Surrounds to 80 Hz.
3. LFE at 120Hz and OFF on the Sub itself
3. I have also double checked if the Sub works, by connecting it directly to the TV and got bass out of it (which was one of the things Klipsch Customer Service asked me to do).
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post #8 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

When you run your AVRs internal test tones, does the sub make noise?

This is what I'd like to know as well.

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post #9 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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No it does not make any noise when I run the AVR's test tones.
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post #10 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

So - I have been running through the setup a few times. The Audyssey did detect the Sub once. At that time the sub wasn't loud at all and I barely heard a thump from it. But when I tried running it again - Audyssey hasn't detected the Sub since. The sub made no noise at all.

The level I showed was under the Test Tone under Manual setup at 6db.

I have tried the following -

1. Increasing the volume on the Sub itself.
2. Changed the crossovers for the Front, Center & Surrounds to 80 Hz.
3. LFE at 120Hz and OFF on the Sub itself
3. I have also double checked if the Sub works, by connecting it directly to the TV and got bass out of it (which was one of the things Klipsch Customer Service asked me to do).

 

 

You say in item #3 you have the sub set to off? Should be on. Maybe I'm not reading it right?


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post #11 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I tried both - Keeping it at 120Hz and switched OFF on the Sub. I read elsewhere on this Forum that turning it OFF on the Sub would allow the AVR to control it. But either way - I tried both!
frown.gif
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post #12 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

No it does not make any noise when I run the AVR's test tones.

Well, there's your problem right there. wink.gif

How did you get Audyssey to set the sub level without it functioning? Anyway....

Do you have the sub connected via RCA cable to the subwoofer output on your AVR?
Have you tried a different RCA cable?
In your AVR, do you have the subwoofer set to YES?
Is your sub's gain knob turned up at least half way?
Is your sub plugged in? (Sorry, got to ask.)
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Originally Posted by chintu30 View Post

Well I tried both - Keeping it at 120Hz and switched OFF on the Sub. I read elsewhere on this Forum that turning it OFF on the Sub would allow the AVR to control it. But either way - I tried both!
frown.gif

This is the correct way to set the LFE on your sub, you should be good there.
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post #13 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Well, there's your problem right there. wink.gif

How did you get Audyssey to set the sub level without it functioning? Anyway....

Do you have the sub connected via RCA cable to the subwoofer output on your AVR?
Yes, The RCA cable is connected to subwoofer output on AVR and Left Line In on the Sub.

Have you tried a different RCA cable?
I haven't, I will give this a shot today

In your AVR, do you have the subwoofer set to YES?
I did, during the Audyssey setup - it went through all the speakers and even showed that it was trying to get a signal from the Sub (with it highlighted on the screen), but couldn't get one.

Is your sub's gain knob turned up at least half way?
Its digital, I set the volume at around -20 - -15db

Is your sub plugged in? (Sorry, got to ask.)
Yes! smile.gif

This is the correct way to set the LFE on your sub, you should be good there.
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post #14 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 03:41 PM
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When you try a different cable you might as well try the other (right) input on the sub.

Do you have a different audio source you could try the sub with? Could be the sub out on your AVR went t*ts up...unlikely, but it happens.
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post #15 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

When you try a different cable you might as well try the other (right) input on the sub.

Do you have a different audio source you could try the sub with? Could be the sub out on your AVR went t*ts up...unlikely, but it happens.

I have an Apple TV & PS3. What is the best way to connect these directly to the Sub.

Again your help is greatly appreciated, thank you very much for taking the time!
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post #16 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 04:02 PM
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If you have anything with a headphone out (iPod, iPhone, etc.) and a headphone jack to RCA adapter it would be easy to get a signal to the sub to see if it's actually working.
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post #17 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so I just tried both - connected an iPod, the sub worked as well as with a different RCA cable. So it seems like that cable was faulty! :s

Now for the tuning - I did the Audyssey calibration with LFE OFF, Phase at 0 and Volume at -15db on the Sub. Audyssey finally recognized the Sub! smile.gif

Front L - + 2.0 db
Center - + 3.0 db
Front R - + 0.5 db
Surround R - +3.5 db
Surround L - 2.0 db
Subwoofer - - 6.0 db

Crossovers -
Individual
Front - 80 Hz
Center - 60 Hz
Surround - 80 Hz

The Sub is working on songs too, but not nearly recognizable unless I increase the volume to full on it.
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post #18 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 08:16 PM
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YEAH! So glad it was something simple...it's always the cable, right? wink.gif

So - how does it sound now with movies?

It's usually recommended that you now raise all your crossovers to 80hz and make sure all speakers are set to "small". This will probably increase your bass with music a bit, but there are other things that can help even more - What surround mode are you using when you're listening to music? Are you using Dyanmic EQ? You've turned OFF Dynamic Volume, right? What source are you using for music/what format/bitrate?

If you're obsessive like me, you could raise you sub volume to -10 (on the sub) to get Audyssey closer to 0db on it's calculations - but that's probably not neccessary. rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #19 of 29 Old 02-26-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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So - I watched 'Life' last night. Again - the sub was a little underwhelming, unless I manually increased the volume on the Sub. Another thing I noticed was that dialogues on the center channel kept going high and low, not sure why. Is it adjusting the volume automatically?

Settings -
1. Surround Mode - 'Movie' on the AVR remote
2. Dynamic EQ - I must check but I believe it was ON - Should it be OFF?
3. Dynamic Volume - Not sure, have to check this - Should it be OFF?
3. Will reduce Sub volume to -10, should I run Audyssey again after this? Is there any way to just run Audyssey on the Sub and not everything?
4. Will change the Crossovers on all speakers to 80 Hz, they are all SMALL
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post #20 of 29 Old 02-26-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
2. Dynamic EQ - I must check but I believe it was ON - Should it be OFF?

It's kind of a matter of preference, but most prefer it on. Play around with the "Reference Offset" until you get a mix of bass and surround that sounds good to you. As a general rule, most people set Blu Ray sources to 0db offset and TV to 10 or 15db offset.
Quote:
3. Dynamic Volume - Not sure, have to check this - Should it be OFF?

Ummm...did you read my previous post? wink.gif
Quote:
It's usually recommended that you now raise all your crossovers to 80hz and make sure all speakers are set to "small". This will probably increase your bass with music a bit, but there are other things that can help even more - What surround mode are you using when you're listening to music? Are you using Dyanmic EQ? You've turned OFF Dynamic Volume, right? What source are you using for music/what format/bitrate?

Quote:
Another thing I noticed was that dialogues on the center channel kept going high and low, not sure why. Is it adjusting the volume automatically?

That's Dynamic Volume doin' it's thing.
Quote:
3. Will reduce Sub volume to -10, should I run Audyssey again after this? Is there any way to just run Audyssey on the Sub and not everything?

Yes, you need to re-run Audyssey after changing anything in your setup (sub volume, speaker positions, listening positions, furniture placement, etc.). No, you can't just run Audyssey for the sub - it's the Full Monty of nothin'.

If you're gonna adjust the sub volume to try to get Audyssey to set it closer to 0db, you can just run the first Audyssey position until you get it where you want it, then run all Audyssey mic positions.
Quote:
I watched 'Life' last night. Again - the sub was a little underwhelming

Is that the Eddie Murphy film? I wouldn't expect much bass from any comedies (there are exceptions), especially one from 1999. rolleyes.gif Try something from this decade. Some new ones with great LFE that I've recently watched are SkyFall, Looper, Total Recall (new version) and The Dark Knight Rises.
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post #21 of 29 Old 02-26-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome thanks again...will try all those.

& No, Life is the BBC Documentary on Animals smile.gif
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post #22 of 29 Old 02-26-2013, 03:14 PM
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I don't think an animal documentry is going to give much bass. Unless it's a stampeding herd of Wildabeast(sp?) or a herd of Elephants storming the camera man eek.gif

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post #23 of 29 Old 02-26-2013, 03:15 PM
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Yes, put in the new Tron movie, or Dark Knight Rises or something smile.gif
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post #24 of 29 Old 02-26-2013, 03:33 PM
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Chintu - you didn't list it in your equipment, but you DO have a Blu Ray player, right??
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post #25 of 29 Old 08-07-2013, 05:08 PM
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Is there any way to lock the fronts as small and the sub at LFE before running Audessy? When I run it, it changes the "small" setting and crossover settings. Are you guys saying to just run the test setup and then manually change the fronts to small and crossover to 80hz?

Do you keep the sub setting at 120hz on the sub itself and the AVR1913 sub setting at 120hz as well, or do you run it at a lower frequency?
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post #26 of 29 Old 08-07-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wargod View Post

Is there any way to lock the fronts as small and the sub at LFE before running Audessy? When I run it, it changes the "small" setting and crossover settings. Are you guys saying to just run the test setup and then manually change the fronts to small and crossover to 80hz?

Yes. Your receiver will set the crossover to the lowest possible value around where the speakers roll off. If this is below 80hz, then try 80hz as the crossover instead. And yes. You have to set to small. The receiver defaults to large because it doesn't know what you intend to do with the speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wargod View Post

Do you keep the sub setting at 120hz on the sub itself and the AVR1913 sub setting at 120hz as well, or do you run it at a lower frequency?

Set your sub to the highest possible crossover or (better) to crossover bypass mode if one is available. Your receiver will completely handle the crossover with the speakers. There is a LFE specific channel setting on Denon receivers which should be left on 120hz. This is the ".1" in 5.1 audio recordings meant to go to the sub. Meanwhile, the regular per speaker crossover reroute the lower bass from the other 5.0 speaker channels to the sub.

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post #27 of 29 Old 08-07-2013, 07:16 PM
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Should the power to the sub be left on?
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post #28 of 29 Old 08-07-2013, 07:39 PM
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Sure. Unless you want to turn it on/off each time smile.gif

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post #29 of 29 Old 08-07-2013, 07:55 PM
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LIFE has lots of Bass in the music... (the movie)

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RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

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