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post #1 of 43 Old 02-27-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking to put in a rocking system for around 2k. in a small room. 70% movies 30 music. I'm really liking the sound of the def tech bp8020st system. Any thoughts or experience? I have a small system in the room now with one sub. I really need to two subs for bass to sound good in my room as most the bass ends up in my corners and no matter where I place the sub I have dead spots in indesierable locations. Any input.would be great. Will be using a Yamaha vx373 until I can up
grade to something with a little more options. I realize def tech doesn't have the best sub/bass performance under say 30hz but I do have the extra dedicated sub to help. And eventually will be an svs one. ( this system wont always be in a rooms this.small)

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post #2 of 43 Old 02-27-2013, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

I really need to two subs for bass to sound good in my room as most the bass ends up in my corners and no matter where I place the sub I have dead spots in indesierable locations.

In that case, then are you sure you would want to limit yourself to the location where the towers are with the bp8020 speakers? Then you have no choice for trying to optimize the sub bass in your room.

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post #3 of 43 Old 02-27-2013, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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First of all im a noob so sorry if I seen dumb or ignorant. But how would I be limiting myself to location? My anylisis for dead spots in my room ( regaurdless of where I place the sub and IV tried a lot of different places) is that I need two or more subs. The two subs in the bp20s would obviously be up front plus the sub I alredy have can be moved anywhere in the room I desire. I was thinking this would be a pretty versital setup overall. Unless I'm missing something?

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post #4 of 43 Old 02-27-2013, 11:56 PM
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The optimal location for the towers may not be the best place for the subs in the towers to be.

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post #5 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 08:32 AM
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your biggest issue is your room. a square room is the worst type of room for bass. I'm all about having 2 subs cuz I have 2 but in a room quite a bit bigger than yours. 2 subs in a room that small would be crazy.

Are you looking for 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1 sound?

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post #6 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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So would u recommend something like a bookshelf setup with external subs or or just towers without subs and dedicated subs. Also the place I'd be buying the tthe towers from alows me to try them in my home. Maybe ill look into studio monitor 55 for now and when I want to upgrade move them to the back

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post #7 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking at 5.1 ya it would be overkill in a small room but I want to go overboard a little cause I plan on moving to a bigger house next year and will have a larger livingroom. It wont be huge I'm sure. I'm gona look for a nice rectangle shape room maybe in the ballpark of 15x20 or but 20x25 but that's just a guess its impossible to predict that at this point

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post #8 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 08:59 AM
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I have towers and love the way towers look and sound. But in all reality if you are running a sub or 2 and xover your speakers at 80hz you really just need speakers that have a -3db point lower than 80hz. However if you have the budget and room for towers by all means go for it, cuz I'm under the opinion that bookshelves really aren't that much cheaper than towers if you have to buy stands to put them on.

Not saying you should buy exactly what I have but I would take a look at the speakers and subs just to see what you think.
I have BIC Acoustech 2 - PL-89 towers, 1 - PL-28 center, and 4 - PL-66 surrounds and I have 2 - Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus subwoofers. I think the system sounds great and its hard to beat for the price. I paid under $2k for my 7.2 speakers and subs.

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post #9 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow! Ill def look into that! That sounds great for under 2k. As a noob I don't really understand the whole -3 at 80db thing though haha

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post #10 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Wow! Ill def look into that! That sounds great for under 2k. As a noob I don't really understand the whole -3 at 80db thing though haha

-3 db is a measure of loudness. +/-1 db is generally considered a noticeable change in volume; +/- 10db a doubling (or halving) of perceived volume. And we want speakers that have a smooth frequency response thoughout the listening range. If certain frequencies are up (+) over others, then they become more emphasized. Down, less emphasized.

All full range speakers eventually have a low frequency where they start to roll off, where they go down in sound output, to eventually produce no bass output. Here's a frequency response chart for a bookshelf speaker:



You can see where the lower frequencies start to loose output below around 80hz on the chart.

So in the previous post, -3db down means that the speakers are starting to roll off (decrease in volume) relative to higher frequencies at 80hz, which is your midbass. If your speakers have smooth output down to 80hz, then the sub takes over from there. Doesn't matter if the speakers drop in output below that. Generally, people don't want to have to set the crossover higher than 80hz because then the bass output becomes localizable--you can sometimes tell the bass is coming from the location of the sub.

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post #11 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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OK thanks I'd like to say u have been extremely helpful and ib ppreciate your responses. I do understand crossover pretttys well. I have small satalites that don't go very low so I have them crossed at 120hz and my sub takes care of the rest. U guess I'm more confused about the 92db sensitivity or whatever the number may be. What does the sensitivity mean?

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post #12 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

OK thanks I'd like to say u have been extremely helpful and ib ppreciate your responses. I do understand crossover pretttys well. I have small satalites that don't go very low so I have them crossed at 120hz and my sub takes care of the rest. U guess I'm more confused about the 92db sensitivity or whatever the number may be. What does the sensitivity mean?

Sensitivity is how much volume a speaker can put out for a given amount of wattage. So speakers that are a more sensitive need less power to get to the same volume as speakers that are less sensitive.

However, be wary of comparing frequency response measurements, maximum power output, and sensitivity too finely between speakers from different manufacturers. Sometimes manufacturers are a little misleading with their stated specifications. You have to look for reviews where the speakers have been independently tested to know for sure.

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post #13 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 11:11 AM
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Sometimes manufacturers are a little misleading with their stated specification.
And sometimes they're totally off the wall. The only data you can trust is a measured SPL chart.

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post #14 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked up some of your speakers u own and they do seem nice. However I decided against the klipsch speakers cause I wasn't a huge fan of the horn tweeters ( not saying I hated or even didn't like them) one of my favorite things about the bp8020s was the pure aluminum dome tweeters. They just in my eyes or ears I should say lol provided a very detailed sharp and almost perfect highs. Now I may be way off but your speakers seem combarible to The sound of klispch but man at 600 bucks a pair its hard to to give them serious though. How would unsay they compare to klipsch? Are they at all similar? Love how they have 2 subs. Do they have built in amps though?

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post #15 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

And sometimes they're totally off the wall. The only data you can trust is a measured SPL chart.

And AVS speaker designers who have access to Thiele/Small parameters and can model the speaker performance. wink.gif

(too bad companies don't share that data)

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post #16 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 01:58 PM
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And AVS speaker designers who have access to Thiele/Small parameters and can model the speaker performance. wink.gif

(too bad companies don't share that data)
There are only two reasons for not having SPL charts: they don't have them, or they don't want you to see them. My feeling has always been no chart = no sale. If everyone felt that way very few companies would still be in business.

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post #17 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting ill make sure I ask for the spl charts before I make my next purchase. I didn't realize dealers even had that information. Good idea

Yamaha rxv373

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post #18 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 04:04 PM
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Interesting ill make sure I ask for the spl charts before I make my next purchase. I didn't realize dealers even had that information. Good idea

Dealers don't usually that have information because manufacturers don't want to supply it. You have to hope that you can find a pro review online where someone has tested the speakers.

Since you are considering their speakers, Definitive Technology is one of the worst companies in the industry when it comes to listing specs that are misleading. No way you will get charts from them for their products (lol)

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post #19 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I know they are slightly misleading but they post there specs in a diffrent way than most. When they say there subs for instance can hit 20hz its prolly at about about 5 DB where others are about 60 or whatever. This is my experience as a noob anyway.

Yamaha rxv373

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post #20 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 04:14 PM
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I know they are slightly misleading but they post there specs in a diffrent way than most. When they say there subs for instance can hit 20hz its prolly at about about 5 DB where others are about 60 or whatever. This is my experience as a noob anyway.

Their sub specs are intentionally misleading. For instance, the DT ProSub 800 has specs listed as 20 Hz - 150 Hz. It has been tested to be almost -28db down at 25hz from it's peak output eek.gif

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post #21 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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And obviously u can't go souly on just the specs charts. To me its more important to buy what your ears like. I think specs should only be used as a detailed guideline. Some may disagree. Honestly I know deftech exaggerates there specs but I still love there new bipolar speakers. May not sound phenomal as they quote at low at 25db but everything above that to 30khz sounds great in my ears. I'd say DTs most exaggerated products are there subs and for that I'm glad there are company's like SVS and hsu

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post #22 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya can't agree with u more about DTs subs. I have a pro sub 600 and I have nothing to test it but I have a hard time beleiving it ever gets as low as its rates 25hz at any decible level

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post #23 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Cell is there anywhere I can hear those acoustech speakers? I researched the price and its amazing. I seen yours are ratedfor almost 120dbs wow!! Why are there's speakers so cheap? Do they not have the quality if say deftech or more comparable klipsch?? I'd love to.hear them esspecially when I could get the whole system for what I'd pay for a pair of bp8020s

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post #24 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 08:35 PM
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I don't have BIC Acoustech, I own some Ascend Acoustics, though. Two different speaker companies, but both only sold online.

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post #25 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Oohhh my bad that was supossed to be for flickhtguru. I don't know why I thought u posted that

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post #26 of 43 Old 02-28-2013, 10:57 PM
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You still might want to check out Ascend Acoustics speakers. Get their CMT-340 SE and the matching center, and you have three of the exact speaker across the front which is optimal for the front sound stage, with six 6.5" drivers firing at you smile.gif

Then a pair of Ascend Acoustic HTM-200 SE or CBM-170 SE for the rear, and that would leave you enough for two Klipsch RW-12d. Your room would rock!

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post #27 of 43 Old 03-01-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks those seem like great speakers for the front. I def agree about an optimum setup in front having identical cone size and one consistent brand. Im going to keep that set on the possibility list. I'm also going to a magnolia store for my first time in a couple and ill finally be able to hear a bunch of different speakers.IV basically decided against the acoustech cause for the price they seem to good to be true. Also there is a serious lack of quality reviews on them. Most reviews I ready ppl are saying BUY THEESE there even better than klipsch which I find nearly impossible for a third of the price. Ima keep shopping and stay open to all recommendations. Ill be making a final purchase in about 3 weeks

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post #28 of 43 Old 03-01-2013, 08:30 AM
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I think the BIC Acoustech speaker sets are very good for what they are: an entry level budget speaker that has high sensitivity; thus, they can play very loud. You have a small room. Doesn't seem like you need that kind of speaker sensitivity, and there are other speakers that can provide better SQ for your money.

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post #29 of 43 Old 03-01-2013, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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What's your overall impression on your ascend setup? Dot hey sound like a more expensive speaker but at factory direct prices

Yamaha rxv373

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Ascend acoustics 170se rear SS

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post #30 of 43 Old 03-01-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm also looking at wharfedale diamond 10.4 as an online speaker.any experience with those?

Yamaha rxv373

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