Central Iowa Spring Audio GTG - JTR/Bamberg/Seaton/Salk/GR Research - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 284 Old 04-27-2013, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 149
This one hurt too. Take the remote away from Jeff!!!
dlbeck is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 12:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ecrabb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Wow! What an awesome day and event! Incredible equipment, excellent food and hospitality, and the nicest people around.

It was really fun doing the blind test and hearing how some songs can sound very similar on all the speakers, while others sound very different on some speakers. The regular listening tests were also really fun, hearing the same music on very different speakers, and for me again, really smashing some of my preconceptions about how different kinds of speakers will sound.

Thanks to Jeff, Mark, Phil, and Roger for bringing their wares, and to desertdome and everybody else for bringing gear and/or helping put it all together. I was really disappointed we couldn't stay for the JTR demo (sorry again, Jeff!) and for the movie fun afterwards..

Thanks from the iRule team for letting us show our product to fellow enthusiasts, but most of all, a big personal thanks to David, his wife, and family for all their time, effort, and for opening their home to get everybody together for a really good time.

G'night, all!

SC

I've got GAS: Gadget Acquisition Syndrome.
ecrabb is offline  
post #183 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 05:30 AM
Senior Member
 
IgnoringMyWife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
IgnoringMyWife is offline  
post #184 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 07:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,135
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 470
Not sure why I am awake already since I walked in my door at 4:55 am but oh well...

David, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we can't thank you enough. I really appreciate how you run a GTG, you set the standard man - we've said it before but it's so cool. Please tell you wife thanks again the food was awesome and so much of it!! I am ashamed to admit I had at least 6 of those chocolate things and 6 cookies and that's probably a low estimate. Oh yeah, cake too at midnight. biggrin.gif

I'll post more later, but this should sum things up for how crazy it got after midnight - Jeff was plugging his ears with his fingers periodically! eek.gif That's all that needs to be said.


Random impressions:

David's room sounds awesome with the speakers configured this way.
This was my 2nd time hearing the Salks and I liked them even more this time!!
The LS6's were schizophrenic to me - some songs were very sweet sounding others harsh but over all very impressed - bass was very impressive.
I don't understand J River.
Steven (scrappydue) has an incredible mustache.
I liked the Bamberg's.
I had a lot of fun with the name that song contest.
This very nice guy (sorry forgot your name!!) looks huge in this picture. He and Archaea are scheduled to go 3 rounds of MMA at the next GTG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Some obstacles today but plugging along.

During the blind test on the song Money For Nothing my favorite speaker ended up being the size of my lunch box. biggrin.gif
The thunder in Open Range on the Noesis ALWAYS makes me jump.
I am going to try the math that Phil Bamberg was talking about as far as LR speaker placement, my wife says I can do what I want in here so I can try placing them 8 feet from the front wall since my room is also 17.5 feet wide. If I love it I'll have the built in excuse not to go AT!! Ugh.. who am I kidding I have to go AT at some point...
I liked the SVS.
The song To Live Is To Die rules. Even though it's a horrible recording, cranking it on the Cat 12's was awesome and I almost went into full headbanger mode.
Getting home at 4:55 AM was brutal.
My favorite speaker was my own... I don't know if it's placebo at this point and don't care. Such huge sound, so clear, so effortless, addictive, made me want the volume to keep going up etc. ok I'll stop - fan boy alert fan boy alert.
Poor Kwarny had a flat tire an hour into the trip and couldn't make it.
I hope Jeff canceled his appt. in Wisconsin this morning and got some sleep.
How do the Salks have such amazing bass? Love the highs too.
Cat 12's full range are so cool it makes everyone's wallet nervous.
Mark is smart.
irule looks awesome and I'm sure I'll be using it at some point.
The LS-6 drivers add up to be a 13 inch driver for each speaker DD tells me. Sounds like more bass than that.
Shotgun blasts at 21 over reference is not supposed to happen.
Someone make Michael stop the siding is falling off the house.
I kept expecting the Sherriff that lives down the street to show up.
Hauling subs and speakers at 1:30 in the morning rules.
Jeff wants to build a sub bigger that the Orbit Shifter. He thinks I should put it behind my couch. I think he's serious about the first part... maybe the 2nd too. biggrin.gif

I won a 100 dollar Amazon gift card!!! Thanks David!!! Like I said, I gave it to my wife and now I suck much less than before.
carp is online now  
post #185 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sibuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 1,939
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 269
something larger then the OS? good god

did mark tell you about the F4 or his idea to add 2 more woofers to the cat 12s?
Sibuna is online now  
post #186 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 08:16 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Not sure why I am awake already since I walked in my door at 4:55 am but oh well...

David, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we can't thank you enough. I really appreciate how you run a GTG, you set the standard man - we've said it before but it's so cool. Please tell you wife thanks again the food was awesome and so much of it!! I am ashamed to admit I had at least 6 of those chocolate things and 6 cookies and that's probably a low estimate. Oh yeah, cake too at midnight. biggrin.gif

I'll post more later, but this should sum things up for how crazy it got after midnight - Jeff was plugging his ears with his fingers periodically! eek.gif That's all that needs to be said.


Random impressions:

David's room sounds awesome with the speakers configured this way.
This was my 2nd time hearing the Salks and I liked them even more this time!!
The LS6's were schizophrenic to me - some songs were very sweet sounding others harsh but over all very impressed - bass was very impressive.
I don't understand J River.
Steven (scrappydue) has an incredible mustache.
I liked the Bamberg's.
I had a lot of fun with the name that song contest.
This very nice guy (sorry forgot your name!!) looks huge in this picture. He and Archaea are scheduled to go 3 rounds of MMA at the next GTG.
During the blind test on the song Money For Nothing my favorite speaker ended up being the size of my lunch box. biggrin.gif
The thunder in Open Range on the Noesis ALWAYS makes me jump.
I am going to try the math that Phil Bamberg was talking about as far as LR speaker placement, my wife says I can do what I want in here so I can try placing them 8 feet from the front wall since my room is also 17.5 feet wide. If I love it I'll have the built in excuse not to go AT!! Ugh.. who am I kidding I have to go AT at some point...
I liked the SVS.
The song To Live Is To Die rules. Even though it's a horrible recording, cranking it on the Cat 12's was awesome and I almost went into full headbanger mode.
Getting home at 4:55 AM was brutal.
My favorite speaker was my own... I don't know if it's placebo at this point and don't care. Such huge sound, so clear, so effortless, addictive, made me want the volume to keep going up etc. ok I'll stop - fan boy alert fan boy alert.
Poor Kwarny had a flat tire an hour into the trip and couldn't make it.
I hope Jeff canceled his appt. in Wisconsin this morning and got some sleep.
How do the Salks have such amazing bass? Love the highs too.
Cat 12's full range are so cool it makes everyone's wallet nervous.
Mark is smart.
irule looks awesome and I'm sure I'll be using it at some point.
The LS-6 drivers add up to be a 13 inch driver for each speaker DD tells me. Sounds like more bass than that.
Shotgun blasts at 21 over reference is not supposed to happen.
Someone make Michael stop the siding is falling off the house.
I kept expecting the Sherriff that lives down the street to show up.
Hauling subs and speakers at 1:30 in the morning rules.
Jeff wants to build a sub bigger that the Orbit Shifter. He thinks I should put it behind my couch. I think he's serious about the first part... maybe the 2nd too. biggrin.gif

I won a 100 dollar Amazon gift card!!! Thanks David!!! Like I said, I gave it to my wife and now I suck much less than before.

Thanks for the quick take Carp and happy you are still happy. cool.gif

Sounds like an amazing (long) day and I love reading this stuff. Very interested in Irule and may have to give it a try.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is offline  
post #187 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Bamberg Audio

Link to the Youtube video for Phil Bamberg's discussion on his Series 5 speakers. (Apologies for the poor cinematography)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkUPAKooSNg
dlbeck is online now  
post #188 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Seaton Sound

Link to the Youtube video for Mark Seaton's discussion on his Catalyst 12C speakers. (Apologies for the poor cinematography)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGkvVNu6xrg
dlbeck is online now  
post #189 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 10:34 AM
Newbie
 
ThomasKott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks David for orgainizing this It was very well done and your family was incredibly generous to have your house taken over all day!
ThomasKott is offline  
post #190 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Picture of the playlist. If this doesn't work I will type it out. The name of #19 is Fuel by Ani DiFranco.

dlbeck is online now  
post #191 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 10:55 AM
Member
 
Dragoson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just a little background before you get into reading my pile of notes. I started in HT about 5 years ago and my first real jump into speakers was the purchase of AV123 850 Signature Rockets, Bigfoot Signature Center, and RSS300 Dipoles, with a single MFW-15 Sub. I have these running off of a Marantz 8002. About 3 years ago my basement flooded and my 850’s were damaged so I’ve been running without them since then. My wife gave me the go ahead to do a HUGE upgrade which brought me here. I do a lot of reading and stalking on AVS and other forums but beyond that I have stayed away from auditioning much for my own sanity.

I have not heard ANY of these speakers prior to this meet so I had no clue what to expect.

Random thoughts throughout the day:
  • Mark is a super nice guy and willing to share any knowledge he has at a moment’s notice.
  • Jeff should be banned from using the volume button on the remote, +9db on the volume when we were already running +10db hot made me fear for my life. eek.gif
  • Carp must do nothing except listen to music all day, every day. His ability to name a song and artist from one note is both uncanny and inhuman. Either that or he was bitten by a radioactive spider and his spidey-senses were tingling.
  • DesertDome is like the evil genius of audio set-up. Fear the giant laser beam hidden in his evil lair.
  • Thanks to David and his family for hosting, excuse the earthquake in your house late last night. The food was delicious!
  • It was great getting to know a bunch of you, had some really good conversations with Archaea, Scrappy, deewan, and others whose names I can’t remember (sorry!)
  • Next time I'm bringing earplugs and raising my life insurance. biggrin.gif

Please keep in mind my rankings are not indicative of everyone's preferences or feelings. They were simply my own valuation for which speakers I enjoyed and am considering purchasing.
Warning: Spoiler! Summary of Ranked Orders! (Click to show)

Blind Test: Despite the early technical difficulties this was a great way to evaluate the speakers. I tried to keep notes per speaker/song but the clips were not too long and on many occasions nothing jumped out at me. I started rating the speakers on a 1-10 scale and then ranked them 1-7 before the unveiling. Keep in mind during the blind testing I was against the wall on the right side (closest to speaker G, speaker A being the furthest away)

Ranked Order - Blind
Speaker E: JTR Noesis 212HT
Speaker C: Seaton Sound Catalyst 12C
Speaker B: Bamberg Series 5 TMW
Speaker D: JTR Single 8HT
Speaker G: Salk Veracity HT2-TL
Speaker A: GR Research LS6 Line Arrays
Speaker F: SVS Ultra Towers

Stereo Test: I ranked these from 1-7 based on overall performance and sound.

Ranked Order - Stereo
Speaker E: JTR Noesis 212HT
Speaker C: Seaton Sound Catalyst 12C
Speaker D: JTR Single 8HT
Speaker G: Salk Veracity HT2-TL
Speaker A: GR Research LS6 Line Arrays
Speaker B: Bamberg Series 5 TMW
Speaker F: SVS Ultra Towers



Speaker A: GR Research LS6 Line Arrays

o Blind Initial Rating: 5 (Midpoint Baseline)
o Blind Ranking: #6 of 7
o Stereo Ranking: #5 of 7
o Blind Impressions:
 The first thing I noticed about speaker A was that I had a really nice base “chest thump” feeling during a few of the clips. As we got into different clips it shined with instrumental tracks, especially on percussions. The bass was very punchy and tight throughout the samples and other instruments were very crisp. Vocals seemed pretty muddy though and on several occasions when the recordings went louder there was a definite harshness present and a loss of the aforementioned crispness and clarity.
o Stereo Impressions: (Played 4th)
 The LS6’s were imposing towers to say the least. They were on the top of my list along with the LS9’s back in the day when AV123 was selling them. Great looking speakers and I believe they ran these full range without subs. The LS6’s were very hit and miss for me. Some things, such as the instrumental and vocals, especially female were amazing. On other tracks they harsh at high volumes and had boomy base which muddled voices. These came alive in the sweet spots but along the walls if sounded muddled and over-reflected. The pipe organ portions were very weak and on the 5th clip the speakers started losing some clarity on the more demanding parts.

Speaker B: Bamberg Series 5 TMW

o Blind Initial Rating: 7
o Blind Ranking: #3 of 7
o Stereo Ranking: #6 of 7
o Blind Impressions:
 Speaker B filled the room a bit more than Speaker A and the voices sounded much clearer. The bass was not nearly as strong of punchy. The tightness wasn’t there and the bass was more laid back and smooth sounding. Pipe organs were really strong and the speakers didn’t sound like they struggled at all on the 5th clip.
o Stereo Impressions: (Played 1st)
 The Bamberg’s surprised me a bit. I will say up front I think they are ugly speakers (to each their own). Overall I found them a good balance and if I was looking at 2 channel audio only I would definitely audition them again if only for lighter listening at lower levels. As we ran them through the various clips I found several times that they were harsh at higher volumes and voices would get muddled by the base. The base was very clean and smooth up to a point these were running full range with no subs), after it reached it limits though it was painfully obvious. Phil mentioned they were designed for a room no bigger than the size of David’s and I would have to concur, if not a bit smaller. I would not touch these for HT. I experienced listening fatigue starting about halfway into the demo.

Speaker C: Seaton Sound Catalyst 12C

o Blind Initial Rating: 8
o Blind Ranking: #2 of 7
o Stereo Ranking: #2 of 7
o Blind Impressions:
 These sounded very similar to Speaker B in all aspects except a step up in all areas. The bass was still not as good as speaker A but much better than speaker B. On the 5th clip it sounded like they might have struggled a bit more and was not as smooth during the high points.
o Stereo Impressions: (Played 3rd)
 I was really excited to hear what the Cat12’s could do after the blind test placed them as one of my top choices. We began by running the Cat’s with the 2 CapS2 subs. You could hear a lot of extra detail in the recordings and the soundstage was much larger than most of the other speakers. I couldn’t detect a huge difference between seating areas or if I was standing up in the back or sides. The speakers sounded laid back but I kept feeling like something was off because the subs didn’t seem like they were synced up with the speakers correctly. After the initial round Mark turned off the Caps and switched the Cats to full range... all I can say is WOW! Once he went full range they sounded SO much better, the louder they went the more impressed I became with them. I also have to mention how amazing they look in Cherry. The cabinet design also makes these look so much better than any of the other speakers at the meet. My biggest regret is the we didn’t have a third Cat12 (or time) to compare to the Noesis 212HT’s in a HT configuration.

Speaker D: JTR Single 8HT

o Blind Initial Rating: 7
o Blind Ranking: #4 of 7
o Stereo Ranking: #3 of 7
o Blind Impressions:
 Speaker D had better vocalization than both A and B, but not quite up to par with C. It did lose a lot of the detail I heard when listening to speaker C and was even more laid back. While it was strong in many aspects, it did get pretty muddy at higher levels of playing. These speakers gave a bigger soundstage and filled the room better than any other speaker except C and E.
o Stereo Impressions: (Upstairs)
 If you want big performance in a small package you can find it right here! It’s really amazing what this little speaker can put out and keep everything sounding nice. If I had a smaller room or was doing something like a HTPC only setup I would definitely look at putting these all around. The Single 8HTs are nothing special to look at but provided the performance in such a small package who can really complain? I wish Seaton had brought the sparks to compare with these. A very nice set of speakers that can hang with all but the best from the group we heard.

Speaker E: JTR Noesis 212HT

o Blind Initial Rating: 9
o Blind Ranking: #1 of 7
o Stereo Ranking: #1 of 7
o Blind Impressions:
 WOW, WOW, WOW. As soon as these came on I felt enveloped with sound, more so than with any other speaker. I literally felt like I just walked into a live performance with stages all around me. I heard no harshness at any point during the blind test even at the higher levels. The vocals were crisp, clear, and intelligible regardless of the clip or recording. I HAD to hear these further.
o Stereo Impressions: (Played 7th)
 These were the last speakers of the night and a lot of the group ended up leaving prior to these getting set up. Again, as soon as these came on the sound just flooded the room and I felt transported. I echo all the comments I made during the blind test. The sounds were smooth, the base was very tight (these were ran with the CapS2 which seemed to be working better than previously with the Cat12’s) I did find that the Noesis didn’t produced the pipe organ sounds quite as well as the Cat12’s. Also, after sitting, standing and walking around the room in as many positions as I could I found that the Noesis did have a much more targeted “sweet spot” than the Cat12’s. I would compare it to the difference between a standard screen and a HP screen. If you can make it work in your room and don’t need 10% coverage it is definitely worth it. In a couple of seatting positions I found that the speakers sounded more “full” as I stood up instead of the seated position, this could be because I’m relatively short (5’7’) or because of people sitting in front of me. We also didn’t run them full range again so I wonder how they would stack up against the Cat12’s in that case.
o HT Impressions:
 At the end of the night we hooked up the 2 CapS2’s, 3 Noesis 212HT’s and 2 Noesis 228’s for surrounds. I was sold! The CapS2’s finally let loose and literally brought down the house in some cases. The floors were flexing, the deck outside was shaking, and people sitting around me were literally jumping when bullets zinged by on the Book of Eli demo. Now I just need to hear the OS’s to make a determination on subs!

Speaker F: SVS Ultra Towers

o Blind Initial Rating: 3
o Blind Ranking: #7 of 7
o Stereo Ranking: #7 of 7
o Blind Impressions:
 I found these to be forward speakers and heard a lot of harshness in them. They were less open than the three prior speakers (C, D, E) but very detailed. I didn’t like the sound too much, especially at higher volumes.
o Stereo Impressions: (Played 2nd)
 The SVs speakers were generally fine. I literally had hardly any notes on thee at all. There wasn’t anything I necessarily disliked about these but I didn’t have anything that stood out for me either. If anything I will say that makes them well-rounded in my opinion but not something that I would be drooling over to purchase. There was a bit of harshness and when we opened them up without the CapS2’s they sounded a bit boomy with the base for my tastes. Sorry I didn’t write more impressions on these but I lost interest quickly.

Speaker G: Salk Veracity HT2-TL

o Blind Initial Rating: 6
o Blind Ranking: #5 of 7
o Stereo Ranking: #4 of 7
o Blind Impressions:
 For some reason I just really didn’t like these on the blind test. They sounded a better than speaker F but paled in comparison to speaker C and E. They were close to D but the enveloping nature just wasn’t there. I actually wrote “meh” on my paper.
o Stereo Impressions: (Played 5th)
 Okay, this was an interesting change from the blind test. The Salk’s were running full range I believe. The bass was subpar in my opinion but what really impressed me were the vocals. Out of all the speakers except maybe the Noesis the Salks just sounded “smooth” as in the whipped fluffy butter variety. If I was just looking for two channel music listening I would definitely be investigating these more. Female vocals were amazingly clear, concise and it just blew me away. I wasn’t a fan of how they looked. At higher volumes the smoothness was stressed a little but still stayed quite consistent. Also it made a big difference on what seat you were in for the soundstage.
Dragoson is offline  
post #192 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 11:20 AM
Member
 
MrSmithers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I'd definitely echo a lot of what carp had to say. David, you once again set the gold standard for GTG hosting. Big thanks to you and your family for the hospitality. Thanks to desertdome for running the playback all day (except the very end of the day when I worried stitch and Archaea might have to physically remove him). Huge thanks to Phil Bamberrg, Mark Seaton, and Jeff Permanian for attending. These guys have some great equipment to be sure but more impressive to me is the time they spend traveling around to GTGs, answering questions and giving back to the enthusiast community. Thanks to SVS and Lynx for providing us with gear and Roger from Lynx and Steve with iRule for attending. I had already planned to use iRule in my house/room one day and Steve's demo ensured that (as well as talking to some of the guys at. The GTG using iRule). After the demo I was lucky enough to win the iRule drawing so it looks like ill be using it slightly quicker than expected. Very excited about that, so thanks to Steve and iRule!

The highlight of these GTGs for me is always meeting and conversing with other hobbyists/enthusiasts and this one was no exception. I got to see a lot of folks I new again and meet a lot of new people. I always find it interesting how many hobbyists are out there and willing to come to these things and it's neat to learn about people's background, the angle they approach the hobby from, their motivations, etc.

On to of all that, the speakers were amazing. I don't think there was anything close to a bad speaker in the bunch, I think they all easily fit for their target audience in terms of playback levels, room setup, content preference, and budget. I will say that I'm glad we did the blind intro even though we had an issue playing subs during the blind part which disadvantaged the JTR gear. Seaton switched the Catalysts to the DSP program with the extended response and the other speakers were run full range during the blind portion. Unbelievably, in the Money For Nothing intro I liked the JTR Single 8 better than the rest by far! That's with no sub. And with it being smaller than the others by a huge margin! I dunno what it was for that speaker on that song but it was a heck of a combination and I talked to several other people who thought so too. I've heard the Noesis on several occasions and they continue to be my favorite single speaker. Something about that horn and coax CD really does it for me. This was my first chance to hear the Cat 12's and I was very impressed. The red cherry versions are beautiful and, although not probably something I'd use much in reality, the ability to go to the alternate DSP program and have the equivalent of a SubMersive in the bass dept. is very cool and something everyone should experience. Can't wait to see some of the crazy stuff Mark was talking about come to fruition. As mentioned before the single 8's were very impressive in the blind demo and also in the upstairs system. Had I not just started a surround build I'd likely have a couple of these on their way to me. I've heard the LS6's before and liked them better in desertdome's room. They sounded amazing on some tracks and not as good on others here at David's. Female vocals sounded off to me, not sure if that was room based or not. I continue to be impressed by. H amount of bad they produce when ran full range. I'm more of a high efficiency guy but I thought the other three offerings were all great for their target audiences. The SVS was impressive for the price and I didn't think the bass was at all boomy or bloated as was reported at the PA meet, perhaps room differences. The Bamberg offering was very smooth, soothing, and detailed, I think at a couple points in the playlist we were asking a little too much from it in terms of playing full range at that volume level in that large of a room (something which Phil mentioned before we started playing). The Salk HT2-TL impressed me the first time I heard them at David's and I think I enjoyed it even more yesterday. That RAAL just does it for me and if I were going to own full range speakers in this class of the ones I've heard so far it would be these. Really great offerings all around, I think we were all lucky to be able to hear them in the same room on the same day.

I won't even write about the after party with the HT demo, things just got silly and I'm still a little in disbelief. I just didn't know an entire house could flex like that...

Thanks again everyone, I had a blast!
MrSmithers is offline  
post #193 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 11:52 AM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
First off, thanks to David and his family for opening up the house to a bunch of audio geeks and allowing us to traipse through everywhere. The food was wonderful and the comaraderie even better. And, Carp, I hope that was not me you were talking about going MMA with Jonathon - he would totally take me.

I am going to break down posts a bit - as the "official" photographer (HA! - David did not realize I am a complete picture noob), I took a bunch and one post would be overwhelming. smile.gif

So, first, the ever-popular people pictures!

Milling around like cattle while final preparations are made:









Phil talking about the Series 5 TMWs:



Everyone listening so attentively! smile.gif



Discussing the HT2's?:



Mark must be droppin' some knowledge! smile.gif



Dinner Time!



More pictures to come..........

David, one suggestion for future GTGs - as part of the introduction process, have your wife introduce herself as well. That way, we can all give her a big thank you for her hard work too.
ALMFamily is offline  
post #194 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 12:08 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Upstairs, the Hilo was set up with the JTR Single 8s and the Cap 2400. One of Mark's F2's was on display as well.

Here is a picture of the Captivator and the F2 together:



The F2 by its lonesome:



The Cap 2400 by its lonesome:



The JTR Single 8s:



The Lynx Hilo:

ALMFamily is offline  
post #195 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The blind audition was an interesting exercise - definitely not something I would base a speaker purchase on, but a fun exercise nevertheless. Some pictures once the lights came up:



A tad blurry, but it was the only shot I had of the HT2s and Ultras (sorry frown.gif):













ALMFamily is offline  
post #196 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 01:57 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Bamburg Series 5 TMW's:

















ALMFamily is offline  
post #197 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Awesome pics! Thanks for being the official photographer ALMFAMILY.
dlbeck is online now  
post #198 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 02:18 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ALMFamily is offline  
post #199 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 02:22 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Seaton Catalyst 12Cs:













ALMFamily is offline  
post #200 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 02:27 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Steve chatting about iRule:



A couple of iRule screenshots:



ALMFamily is offline  
post #201 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The LS6s:















To give you an idea of the size:

ALMFamily is offline  
post #202 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 02:39 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Salk Veracity HT2's:











ALMFamily is offline  
post #203 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 03:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
NewHTbuyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Great thread! Thanks for the pics and reviews. I own a pair of the Ultra towers. I was shocked at the pic of the blind test with all 7 speakers to see how small the Ultras look, since they are pretty tall and hefty. The JTR, Seaton and LS6 speakers are really big.

Some of these same speakers were also at the recent NE GTG, and it seems like people's impressions were similar. I like my Ultra towers, although I recognize what they do well and what they do not do as well. Still, I think they are a pretty good value as a full range speaker for 2K. Some of the sets in this GTG were four times as expensive. I would love to hear the JTR or Seaton speakers one day.

NewHTbuyer is offline  
post #204 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 04:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,869
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 320 Post(s)
Liked: 611
What a fun G2G!

Excellent!!!

David Beck as G2G host? Double win! David I don’t know how you get buy in from your wife and family on these things but it’s amazing! David’s wife and family made a welcome poster, GADs of snacks, and a speaker cake! (of which I had several pieces and the rest of you just missed out – cause it was GOOD!). I don’t know how many pounds of beef were purchased but I’m thinking there must have been close to 20lbs of beef between chili for lunch and tacos for dinner. There was enough ground beef to have fed all 25ish attendees and David’s family twice over. There was no shortage of food or drink! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! The chocolate cookies were excellent, the chili was awesome and the tacos hit the spot! Wine and beer all supplied? Really It was over the top! Who sponsored that $100 amazon gift card, $25 itunes gift card, and $15 Starbucks gift card give away? The games were great, and the demonstrations by the venders were fun to engage in! Thank you and DesertDome for organizing everything! DesertDome – thank you for working the EQ and doing all the setup work. I saw cables, amps, hardware EVERYWHERE as we were picking up Saturday night. I imagine most of that equipment belongs to you and so I thank you for tearing up your equipment back home to set it up and share it with us at David’s house!

The music trivia game was the most fun ‘party game’ I’ve played in a LONG time – perhaps ever! That was a great idea, and I applaud whoever came up with it! Carp was on point for that contest! WOW. I felt like his brain was a Shazam super-computer,and mine was rolodex by comparison. Most times he had raised his hand and been called on to answer the question by the time I could even get my pea brain to process what I’d heard for .5 seconds – just 2 seconds ago. I’d swear one time I didn’t hear any music at all and he named the song. I exclaimed to the group –“ what the heck just happened? ---Michael did you even play the clip yet?” A couple times he answered a song based on the first second or two of distortion in a track (not even musical notes) and a dozen times he named a song on a single note or two it seemed. Ridiculous. I guess listening to music for four hours a night pays off. At least for a $100 Amazon gift card in this case! I suppose it’s not too much a chore though – to listen to music with the 212HT. :P At any rate – it was absolutely bizarre. Basically – the only time the rest of us had a chance was when David deliberately overlooked Sheldon’s raised hand as a mercy gesture, or on the rare occasion it was a song carp had never heard. If there was a national competition for this kind of thing I’d sponsor carp!
The meet was laid out really well. Planned really well, and implemented well! The blind listening section to a mono speaker was a great idea, and some quick fun, but sadly probably really didn’t really amount to much of anything for most people because the speakers were ‘arrayed’ across the front of the soundstage and as everyone knows room positioning and seating positioning REALLY can affect your impression of a speaker. Also there was no subs to sponsor the speakers that were not designed to run full range. So for those of you with less experience, take even your own impressions during the blind listening section with a grain of salt.

The stereo setup section was fantastic. Each of the vendors present got to setup their gear the previous day and could spend time making it right with EQ preferences and tailoring their gear to the room! Some oddities occurred with timing delays with the JTR S2 subs that maybe someone will elaborate on, but on several occasions I felt the timing delay on the S2’s was slightly off. The full range speakers without S2 integration probably had some level of advantage here because of this fact, but not across the board. The S2 integration with the 212HT was great. I heard Mark say that they had it all down pat during Friday’s setup date for each speaker they chose to run with subs, but that the room sounded much different with 25 bodies in it, than it did with just their setup gear. The vendors certainly expected this – but the early setup was a compromise to do the best they could to eliminate setup time and keep the meet’s pace moving. There wasn't too much down time between speakers, and when there was some downtime it was fun to meet new folk and catch up with old friends. There was bocce ball and ladder golf and a demo room upstairs showcasing Lynx equipment and both JTR Single 8 and Bamberrg monitors. I’m not really a separates kind of guy – my Onkyo AVR suits my needs just fine for theater use and connection to my HTPC through my Nvidia GTX670, but I appreciate that the Lynx representative, Roger Schermerhorn, both supplied superior hardware for the meet’s use, and was willing to share his knowledge on the Lynx DAC hardware. Roger also provided some helpful information about places to download or buy DSD files (a newer lossless format I was previously unfamiliar with). Steve did a great job of showing off the Irule. It looks to be an impressive tool!

Of course I thank Phil Bamberrg, Mark Seaton and Jeff Permanian for showing up, representing their products, and talking shop with the enthusiasts. You guys are heroes in the hobby! I’ve heard a lot of people say they like supporting vendors that support these types of events, and I agree with that sentiment! Thanks to SVS too for working out a low or no cost ‘loan’/’buyback’ of their SVS Ultra Towers with dlbeck for the purposes of showcasing their new equipment! This kind of support of the community goes a long way towards building respect and loyalty for your brand!


On to my meet Notes!

I don’t think I’ll rate the speakers in an order. I’ll just let my comments speak for themselves to what I preferred. Speakers are so subjective. I may absolutely love something and be bowled over by its performance and you might find yourself unimpressed & vice versa. Speakers are probably one of the most subjectively evaluated things I’ve run into in any hobby I’ve enjoyed. What’s more --- our preference bias is based so much on what we’ve heard in the past, own, or have previously considered to be good equipment. If your gear at home is setup like ‘Y’, even if ‘Y’ is setup incorrectly then you are going to more closely identify with the setup that sounds similar to ‘Y’ – even if Speaker ‘Z’ measures more accurate. IE If I have a room null in my room in a midbass region and don’t’ know it – I might prefer and advocate speaker that has less midbass because it’s what I’m used to hearing . Speakers are something each buyer should listen to himself and make his own decision. These meets, especially when kicked off in this manner are absolutely excellent --- because the vendor gets to represent his speaker setup as he wishes. The previous day setup was a fantastic idea.
So --- summarily – my disclaimer is that my review notes are 100% honest from my perspective and absolutely biased to my subjective preferences and tastes. If you like loud, live, transparent, high quality sound and your favorite music genres are top 40, funk, bluegrass/folk, acoustic, vocal or accapella, dubstep, and various bass heavy tracks – then you might parallel my tastes. I listen to music at about -20 or -25, with the subs about 6dB hot. I watch movies at about -12dB from reference, but I like to replay my favorite demo scenes somewhere between -5dB to reference type levels with my JTR Captivator subs 6 to 9 dB hot. I do not like listening to speakers much above about +5 over reference -- even for very short demos --- it’s too freaking loud. + 20dB is too loud --- yes I’m talking to you carp, popalock,gorilla83, pennynike1,and Jeff P. . In the old days of manual EQ for speakers – I used to EQ a bit of a smiley face. I hate a bright treble bias –I don’t much like the sound of electric guitars. In guitar hero type games I’ll pick the bass guitar every time, and turn up the bass too boot. I do like subwoofers that measure flat and are accurate (thanks to Luke Kamp), but I do like the bass emphasized. Those are my preferences. Evaluate my write-up of each speaker through the lens of my preferences.

I moved all over dlbeck’s room during these demos. The demos were broken into sections and we’d all rotate seats. I had a center seat for a demo section on each of the speakers, but other times were spent off axis or perhaps in the back center. So each review is a bit of a mix of many different listening positions. I recorded my written notes under each speaker, and then summarized my thoughts on the overall presentation below that. This is the order we demoed them in - so the bullet points should be written with that in mind.


Bamberrg Series 5 TMW
  • Vocals sounded really good most of the time.
  • Jazz female vocal with snapping fingers was fantastic in center front seat
  • Very impressive lowbass in full range --- played without JTR S2 subs engaged
  • Volume started inching up? – Now highs on the screaming female vocal track sounded pressed
  • Got Chills on the Star Wars Track (1 of 4 speakers to do this during this track)
  • Hallelujah track sounded ‘smaller’ than I am used to on my JTR 228HT at home (not ideal)
  • Imaging is good from center seat area – not pinpoint focused – but of the larger soundstage type.


Summary
As the volume increased I was not a fan of these speakers, but they were excellent when kept within their limits. In limits – clear, detailed, very accurate – taken past limits sound strained easily. Phil said that it was because they were revealing on the tracks –using the example of vocal mic recordings being recorded too close to the mouth and overloading the mic. He said the Bamberrg would reveal the details of the recording to a fault – and that some of the tracks were recorded poorly and the Bamberrg was reproducing that. This may be the case and more detectable in a smaller listening environment, but my take was that the speakers were being played beyond their capability a little bit in a setting like we had. I don’t think that was anyone’s intent. David’s room is large,and I don’t think the speakers were quite up to the task of filling the room with the SPL levels requested. Phil asked us to back it off a bit at one point during the standardized playlist. Phil said the room might have been getting overloaded, but I honestly think it wasn't the room so much as the speakers -- evidenced by the fact some of the later auditions did not struggle on those same tracks and remained in character through their demos at the same or increased volumes. The 2011 Wisconsin speaker G2G came to my mind where some of the full range audiophile speakers were taken a bit past their comfort zones. Reason? -- Different design choices to meet different goals! Mark shared with me that Phil is a very competent audio engineer but that his products may not cater to some of the group’s volume preferences at this type of meet. That seems accurate. Phil appeared knowledgeable, and was willing to share tips with the attendees, his setup advice seemed to be followed by the other vendors at the meet in regards to in room speaker placement for the best imaging. His product sounded excellent and detailed at lower listening levels - I just don’t think his series 5 speakers would cater to the spl levels, and listening preferences I personally most enjoy. As a side note I did like the Bamberrg monitors upstairs that played alongside the JTR single 8. I don’t know much of anything about them and didn’t get to spend that much time with them, but from what I heard – they sounded really nice in David’s living room and if in the market for some passive monitors – these would be something to consider.


SVS Ultra
  • Same male vocal that sounded great on the Bamberrg sounded great on SVS. (In fact this male vocal sounded great on every speaker I realized as the day wore on.)
  • I liked these speakers early in the audition. I’d own them. (this was my second written comment)
  • I liked the female screaming vocals better on these than the first Bamberrg demo. I think these had a bit more spl headroom.
  • I could tell the S2 subs were engaged on some of the lower biased tracks – which I liked, and complimented these speakers.
  • I felt like these were not as detailed/clear/revealing as the Bamberrg, but actually liked their sound better subjectively.
  • I got chills again on the Star Wars Track.
  • They were a bit bright on the techno track intro (this was the first track they sounded a bit too bright)
  • A bit ‘edgy’ on the Brandy Carlyle track
  • A bit brash on some of the metal tracks (too bright)


Summary
The basic sound signature on these sounded like a bit of a smiley face EQ to me. I like that. I liked these. I’d own them, though I like my 228HT better for a bit more $. Some of the East Coast guys at the Gorilla83 meet said these speakers sounded boomy. I was curious so I asked at the end of the demo if we could disconnect the S2 subs and play the SVS towers in full range. The host obliged and we proceeded to play some bass filled tracks. I did not pick up on that boomy’ness characteristic at all with our demo session. Dlbeck played Black Eyed Peas Boom Boom Pow and I stood up in the back of the room and walked around the room then then walked up to the SVS. The Ultra towers were doing fine. Notes sounded accurate and consistent volumes across the various bass frequencies. They did not sound boomy or bloated to me. Again, my subjective evaluation. I do not think they were hitting 28hz as they are rated for. They were just completely missing the lowest note on the Black Eyed Pea song, and I don’t think that note is lower than 28hz. I’d be surprised if the Ultra towers actually were playing much below 40hz in David’s big room in full range mode. Maybe when DesertDome posts the graphs we can verify, but I was talking to MrSmithers later and he had said he bet it was about a 45hz rolloff --- so our independent subjective evaluations aligned. On the east coast the speakers were effectively corner loaded. In David’s room they were out in the middle of the floor – about 8 foot from the back wall and 4 foot from the side wall --- the same placement for the other speakers. This would aide in a flat frequency response, but not assist in bass re-enforcement. No matter – these were an enjoyable speaker to me – and the lowest price of the day save the single 8. I’d recommend them.


Seaton Catalyst 12C
  • Neutral
  • Clear
  • Transparent
  • Found myself swaying to the fingersnaping blues song
  • No harshness on the female screaming lyric (first speaker this sounded okay on)
  • On the rap song with the ‘political introduction’ in sounded like I was in the auditorium during the concert among the audience! Excellent!
  • At times there was a little edge of treble bias
  • On one of the blues songs there were crickets in the background? Was that on the track? I didn’t notice that on any other speakers?
  • Bass guitar solo sounded the best so far on these.
  • They were a bit bright on the metal music selections
  • Whistling track sounded the best on these by a long shot to me. The descending notes were unique and distinct.
  • Saxophone song sounds excellent!


Summary
I don’t really have a lot to say about these speakers that hasn’t already been said innumerable times. Mark Seaton makes a classy and well engineered product. Seaton sound routinely wins best of show type awards for valid reason --- he makes excellent products. I’ve now heard 8c and 12c on multiple occasions at multiple meets. Mark Seaton was recently at the East Coast Gorilla83 meet (as was Jeff) and his 12C speakers were very well received there as well. They are a speaker that reproduces sound and just gets out of the way when doing it. Seaton products don’t add flavor or taint the material with any unique or identifiable characteristic. The 12C’s just sound great. Period. Phil Bamberrg clapped at the conclusion of the 12C demo. When a competitor applauds you publicly – you know you’ve made a sound product. I’d definitely be proud to own these. Mark is an excellent audio community supporter as well and attends a great many of these types of meets, and brings his products in to demo at no cost to the host. I hope his business is successful for long to come!


GR Research – LS6 Line Arrays
  • Gads of bass on the drum track – most bass yet from my seating positions– very impressive!
  • Treble is silky smooth (ribbon tweeters for the win!)
  • Off axis isn’t nearly as good as on
  • Hotel California track with drum intro was Excellent
  • Crowd cheering on some of these tracks sounds a bit odd? Small? Far away?
  • Diana Krall type track sounds fantastic!
  • Screaming female vocal sounds a bit harsh or annoying – forgivable because some of these other tracks have been excellent
  • Muted trumpet was too bright
  • Sherlock Holmes track was amazing
  • Rap song was a bit ‘messy’ in the busy section – sounded muddy compared to Seaton right before it.
  • Got chills on Star Wars again.
  • Metal music boring and small sounding
  • 1812 overture sounded best so far, but also sounded significantly quieter? Why is volume changing?
  • Whistling track was a significant downgrade from the previously noteworthy Catalyst performance
  • Saxophone track sounded excellent
  • Add Hoc Demos at end by request - Sounded great on Shambala acapella track, sounded disappointing on Days of the New – Shelf in the room track(I expected acoustic guitar to sound awesome on these?)


Summary
Of all the speakers of the day this one was a mixed bag of great and poor review per each track. It was inconsistent across seating positions and tracks. I don’t know exactly why. I’d love it for one track and think it fell short for the next. I think this speaker ‘s performance is probably largely dependant on where you are sitting and room interactions --- more so than the other speakers based on the mixed bag opinions I and other’s shared. One point of note - these were by far the tallest contestant. During the normal demos – sitting in the back row I could still see thee of the eight 6.5” drivers, and two of the six ribbon tweeters – meaning that no matter where you were in the room – you’d still get access to the silky smooth treble of the ribbon tweeter – where as other speakers the 20 heads or so in front of you would likely be blocking the path of treble when sitting in the back row. I would think that would be a strong advantage – but it wasn’t so clear cut, they were still hit or miss for whatever reason. I bet in a room with a defined sitting area these are excellent. They have ridiculous bass for a full range speaker, knockout looks, and a sound that when firing on all cylinders was among the best of the day (but at times also among the worst – when something was off). On occasion vocals sounded mudded, bass sounded muddied, and treble was off. Love/Hate type thing. Although hate is too strong a word,and Love is appropriate. A three pack of these or LS9 behind an AT screen would be pretty darn nice with the height filling out the entire projector screen – but it’s also be hard to want to hide something so handsome! They also were not limitless. The eight 6.5” drivers were pumping during the times DesertDome took them to the brink (at least in the full range config we demoed them in). Regardless even with the multitude of drivers they aren’t SPL champions like the 12C or Noesis. Overall, I’d be happy to own a set of these too.


Salk Veracity HT2-TL
  • Excellent sounding speaker
  • Screaming female vocal track actually gave me chills on this speaker (WOW!)
  • Super Clean
  • Very Nice Treble with ribbon tweeter\
  • I’d run these speakers with subs personally rather than full range at these 85dB ish volumes
  • The track with the sliding bass line was a bit weak on these compared to the LS6 and 12C
  • Crisp guitar sounds
  • An enjoyable speaker – one of the best of the night so far, especially when kept within its comfortable playback levels!


Summary
I’ve heard these several times now, both in the Wisconsin meet and a couple times in Des Moines meets. I like these. I’d own these for a 2 channel room. They’ve never been my top favorite in a meet, but I’ve always very much enjoyed listening to them. The ribbon tweeters are something special, and they are a gorgeous speaker in multiple finish options. They also have an uncanny ability to play full range. Phil was sitting next to me at one point and he almost refused to believe they were playing full range without the aid of the S2 subs. I think the design of the Salk tower – the transmission line namesake helps explain their capability –IIUC it’s a fancy horn like transmission line design that aides in depth of note. The Salk were played with no EQ and no subs. My most important note on these was that the screaming female vocal track actually gave me chills on this speaker. That’s huge! I can’t control chills I receive when listening to music, they just happen when I really like what I hear. Most of the previous speakers (except 12C) had really botched this track up – it was annoying, harsh, strained, or even in the case of the 12C – just reproduced neutrally without error. On the Salk – this track was engaging, emotional and chilling. This track defines the Salk – they always seem to sound phenomenal on female vocals, and you’ll hear owners rave about female vocals all over the forum boards.

JTR Noesis 212HT
  • Effortless on drum tracks
  • CLEAN
  • Noesis horn sounds fantastic
  • Joe Satriani track is startlingly clear
  • Electronic intros are fantastic – best ofday
  • Vocals on acapella men’s choral track are smooth – Awesome
  • Smooth Jazz sounded great
  • Clapping sounds on the Eagles track sounded so darn clear!!!
  • Finger snapping clip is the best of the day (fever song)
  • Volume levels are significantly increased over previous auditions (how much higher? 5dB?)
  • Screaming female vocal was good even at seemingly higher volume levels than previous auditions when several others sounded strained at lower volumes.
  • 4th row concert effect on rap song with crowd cheers – like 12C – this speaker’s clarity makes you think you are there. JTR sounds a bit muddy on the busy section of the rap song? Seems louder for sure than previous auditions.
  • Almost got chills on the muted trumpet track, pre chills – almost ready to shiver – but didn’t quite get there. Didn't really care for the trumpet on any of the previous auditions.
  • Techno track intro which sounded harsh on many of the other speakers sounded super clean on these and the volume had to be louder
  • CLEAR, CLEAR, CLEAR
  • Whistling was clear on whistle song (maybe 2nd of day behind 12C? on this track)
  • Clean saxophone


Summary
These are the speakers I would most like to own from this G2G. We listened to some additional material on them following the regular demo. All sounded excellent. I liked these so much at my initial demo last year that I bought the little brother 228HT unauditioned from Jeff as it became available because I didn’t want to try to afford the $2200 per speaker these cost, but wanted as much of this sound as I could reasonably afford! The 228HT’s were released at a promotional price of less than half the 212HT cost, but if money were no object I would own the 212HT. My personal evaluation is that I think the 228HT are 98% of the movie performance of the 212HT (I’m not sure I could even tell the difference), but only about 75% of the music performance when we’ve A/B’ed them directly. The 212HT has a bit clearer, transparent high, and a larger soundstage in stereo imaging. My 228HT would compare favorably with anything I’ve ever heard pricewise from other vendors at their $1200 pricepoint, but I do like the 212HT a bit better. Never the less - - - I’m very happy with the 228HT (at least until I can get my hands on some 212HT) wink.gif The 212HT remains my favorite speaker I’ve ever heard. The speaker is transparent; the treble is just CLEAR, never harsh, never grating. The speaker has a bit of a live sound. I describe it as fourth row concert in a very large venue – right there in person! That does not mean it has a treble bias. The treble is the cleanest I’ve ever heard --- like it’s not even coming out of a speaker. Couple that with the fact that the speaker is basically limitless.

We listened to open range during post party play time at +16dB over reference powered by some a Cherry amp monoblock putting out 800watts to four ohm --- one for each speaker on the front soundstage and I don’t the speakers did much more than barely begin to visibly move the surrounds. We had my two JTR 228HT speakers on rears duty sharing a stereo Cherry amp with 400 watts to each and at the same volumes they were pumping. I had 15dB reduction earplugs in and it was still unbelievably loud. You could feel more impact from gunfire than if someone was actually shooting in the room. The JTR equipment is absurdity. If you like the sound at lower volumes (most do) then take comfort the sound quality just keeps raising linearly as you raise the volume dial. If anything the sound somehow gets better as you turn it up. Its counter intuitive and freakish. During play time we were frequently in the + ranges above reference. I went outside at one point and David’s vinyl siding on his house was audibly rattling like it was all going to fall off at any second. Stitch1 was standing on the aforethought sturdy wooden deck and he half joked he was scared thinking the whole thing was going to collapse! It’s a wonder that we didn’t have the cops called on us with our post party shenanigans in David’s upscale neighborhood. Those two JTR S2 subs (four high excursion 18” drivers powered by 8000 watts) and a full JTR soundstage was borderline insanity. At one point I yelled, (couldn't hardly hear myself over the speakers) to the group -- What are we doing? Looking around the room we all had earplugs in, or hands over our ears (some people with both earplugs and hands over ears), and we (by we – I mean Jeff or DesertDome either one) just keep turning it up + 5dB + 10dB + 15dB + 20dB – with the subs hot! David had multiple things broken in his house. Pictures were falling off walls, glass breaking, picture frames breaking etc. We were wrecking the place. I admit to feeling sheepish, embarrassed , and ridiculous. Hence my rhetorical question??? But when speakers seem limitless – I suppose it’s only human nature to want to figure out if you can truly find their limits. In the case of a full JTR setup like we had going?... I don’t think you can find the limits without hurting yourself or destroying things. I’m sorry David. I know you were part of this too and wearing a grin in the back of the room like the rest of us – but it might not be as funny as you start taking inventory of damage! Absolutely Absurd… YET--- I LOVE IT! BTW – Jeff was holding his hands over his ears. I've never seen that before, in attending a half dozen meets with the man. Heck, we hit 137dB peak in my room with a pair of grout cracking JTR Orbit Shifters at the 2012 KC subwoofer meet and he didn't have his ears covered. At this meet he covered his ears. When Jeff covers his ears you know things are getting serious. Carp tried to snap a picture of Jeff covering his ears several times so that others would know Jeff was actually human, but Jeff was having none of it. Carp said Jeff lowered his hands every time carp tried to snap a picture.

It’s okay Jeff. We don’t need a picture – your secret is out -- at least a handful of us now know you are bound by limits --- even if yours speakers aren't.
TMcG likes this.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #205 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 05:23 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK, batting practice for the boys complete - on to the JTR Noesis 212s!

First off, the Captivators doing sub duty (there were 2):



The 212s:



















ALMFamily is offline  
post #206 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 05:24 PM
Member
 
ALMFamily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That is all the pictures - my impressions of the day to hopefully follow soon.....
ALMFamily is offline  
post #207 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 06:01 PM
PEB
Member
 
PEB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Bamberg’s were the first-up speakers, and I believe I was disadvantaged somewhat by that.

As I explained to a few guys, playback volume is like adjusting your thermostat. One degree is all it takes to make you feel comfortable again. And a few dB is all the change that’s needed to find the perfect volume level (which can also vary with the type of program material).

I think we all felt that the playback level was about 3dB too high for my stint, and I could tell that Mark was disappointed that we overcompensated by setting his level about 3dB too low!

What surprised me was how the playback levels were accurately calibrated to match for switching during the blind audition, but was not in effect for the individual demos.

Normally I have the volume remote in my hand, and know what song is about to play next. But again, volume was controlled by a keyboard and not by me.

In this case there truly were some hard, even harsh sounding recordings in the mix during my first-up stint, and many of these were subsequently eliminated for the following speakers.

At the end I wanted to play some of my known-good recordings, but again these were stopped short.

By the end of the day, there were some terrific songs that were not only high-quality recordings, but were also fun to listen to. These songs were not heard on the Bamberg’s.

So I understand the goal of playing the same line-up of songs for all speakers. In the end this was not rigidly followed.

Furthermore, it was apparent that there were basically two categories of speakers: lower-max-output and higher-max-output capability. Bamberg, SVS, Salk were in the lower tier, while Seaton, and JTR were in the higher tier. LS6’s would fall somewhere in the middle. The lower tier would be hard-pressed to deliver high SPL in David’s generous theater room, while the others can easily drive us out of the room! smile.gif

In short, (and realizing just how whiny I sound), I think that my stint was effectively the guinea pig for all that followed.

Perhaps Roger can testify how the Series 5’s fared in a room that was almost as large during the St. Louis tour last month.

Bamberg Audio | Speakers for LifeT M
www.BambergAudio.com

PEB is offline  
post #208 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 06:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Some nice gear you guys had there.
Obviously I wasn't there but, what's the point of playing music at 16db above reference(85db reference, so 101db?) in an untreated room, maybe I'm mistaken but I didn't see any acoustic treatments.
To the point where the framing is flexing and a picture falls off the wall?
How do you know that you were hearing the speakers and not a maelstrom of reflected noise.
Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is online now  
post #209 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 06:03 PM
PEB
Member
 
PEB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Huge kudos go out to Michael (DesertDome), who acted as IT for 3 days straight without rest. The event would not have been possible without his amazing skill set and tireless effort. Mr. Wizard and Marathon man are two nicknames that come to mind.

And there are not enough thanks available to extend to David and Jen for their incredible hospitality for such a large gathering of fanatics. Everything seemed to flow with few hiccups. And the food was as though the event was catered. They both made it all seem effortless, but it is clear the amount of work they put in for all of our benefit.

I really enjoyed getting to know such a great bunch of guys.

Bamberg Audio | Speakers for LifeT M
www.BambergAudio.com

PEB is offline  
post #210 of 284 Old 04-28-2013, 06:09 PM
Member
 
MrSmithers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Some nice gear you guys had there.
Obviously I wasn't there but, what's the point of playing music at 16db above reference(85db reference, so 101db?) in an untreated room?
To the point where the framing is flexing and a picture falls off the wall?
How do you know that you were hearing the speakers and not a maelstrom of reflected noise.
Perhaps I'm missing something.
Our absurd listening was at the END of the day, after all standard auditions, and on the JTR speakers only. Further, almost everyone had already gone home, there were only 7-10 of us at that point. The rest of the listening was at a much more reasonable (I know this term is relative) listening volume.
MrSmithers is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off