Speaker decision: Klipsch Vs ??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 02-28-2013, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm currently starting to finish my "man cave" in my basement and need some help with some HT speaker decisions. The full room of the basement is about 26 foot square, but the area I'm planning on setting up for the main listening area will only be about 14 x 16 of that, open on three sides, with a bar that I'm building behind it. Ceiling height is a little over 8 ft across the basement.

I currently have an older Klipsch Quintet II 5.1 surround setup in my living room with a Klipsch KSW-10 sub, all powered off a Denon AVR-1912 receiver. All in all I am very happy with that setup, but want something a little beefier for the basement. I've been looking into the Klipsch RF-52 fronts, RC-52 center, and RS-41 surrounds or maybe the RS-42's (I have to build a soffit wall across the ceiling to separate the area from the bar, so the 41's might fit better), haven"t really started looking into the sub yet, probably the SW-112, and powering all of it with either a Denon 3313CI or an Integra DTR30.4 receiver (also up in the air between those two)

Pretty much my question is this: Would this setup be overpowering for that space, if so what would be a better option, and also is Klipsch the way to go or not? I've read a bunch of reviews and actually went to a store today and "test drove" them and didn't notice the "tinny" sound that I have since been reading about all day. To be completely honest, I have never really been able to CRANK the setup I have now (the better half makes me keep it at a modest level, hence the need for a man cave) so I never noticed any "tinny" sound from them either, perhaps at higher levels this becomes more apparent. Are there better comparative speakers that I should look into at about that same price point? And any better sub ideas?

Thanks for any help you guys can offer
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post #2 of 38 Old 03-01-2013, 12:13 PM
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My space is 15x15, and that is similar to the set up i am contemplating. I am going to go with the RC42 though as space is limited. I just dont knwo if I am going to go Klipsch or PSB yet. You should be fine.

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post #3 of 38 Old 03-01-2013, 01:00 PM
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My room is 16 x 24, but the portion I'm using for HT is similar to yours. I'm running RF82, RC62, and RS52, and they aren't too big or "overpowering" for the room. I've been buying HT gear for 25 years, and these are the first speakers I've owned that make me forget I'm not actually in a theater.

The RF52/RC52/RS42 setup would be fine, but if your budget allows it you could certainly move up a bit in the Reference series in a room that size.
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post #4 of 38 Old 03-01-2013, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

The RF52/RC52/RS42 setup would be fine, but if your budget allows it you could certainly move up a bit in the Reference series in a room that size.

I was actually thinking of going with the bigger fronts and center, but I'm limited on space for the surrounds. That's why I was thinking of going with the 52s. I didn't want to over power the surrounds. Would that be an issue with the smaller 41s for the surrounds? My only other option would be in wall above the seating area, but I honestly have no idea about functionality with them, or sound quality. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help
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post #5 of 38 Old 03-01-2013, 09:04 PM
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I would go for bookshelf speaker fronts and a good sub (not the sw112). The chief advantage that tower speakers have over bookshelf speakers is deeper bass extension, but the subwoofer takes over the range which gives towers their advantage so it negates the reason for towers in the first place.

Another thing is, the surrounds don't do a whole lot so don't spend a lot on them. I would go for bookshelf speaker surrounds. RB41s would be adequate for surround speakers.

My recommended system: RB-61 front left/right, RC-62 center speaker, RB-41 surrounds, Hsu VTF2 mk4 subwoofer. It costs less, and I think that would sound better, mainly due to the superior subwoofer and center speaker.
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post #6 of 38 Old 03-01-2013, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

My recommended system: RB-61 front left/right, RC-62 center speaker, RB-41 surrounds, Hsu VTF2 mk4 subwoofer. It costs less, and I think that would sound better, mainly due to the superior subwoofer and center speaker.

Thank you for your insight Shady J

I'm pretty new at all of this, so I really appreciate any input. One question for you though. I looked into that sub you suggested and really like what I see. Only thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong here (again, pretty much a noob at this) but I am thinking I might need a forward facing sub for my design. I was thinking of framing the tv with built in shelving. As this isnt going to be an actual THEATER room I am trying to keep it still looking like a living room. My idea was to frame the sub into the shelving (pretty much making an entertainment cabinet that would span the 14 foot width, with risers of shelving at either end) so a downward firing sub may not be applicable for that design. As I don't have TOO much room for this area, if I could keep the sub, if at all possible, hidden framed into the base cabinet, that would alleviate having to find space for it somewhere else in the room. Would a forward facing sub make more sense? if so, any recommendations? or suggestions? I think I may actually post this question to the Sub forum as well.

I was also planning on building the floor standing speakers into the shelving (or along side of it) at the ends of my tv. But bookshelf speakers would clearly work better for that scenario. I was thinking that the sound and/or volume would be increased as well by the tower style speakers over the bookshelf ones, but I could be way off on that thinking as well
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post #7 of 38 Old 03-02-2013, 03:20 AM
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The direction of the woofer doesn't matter, bass is omnidirectional. This is why you only need one sub for a surround sound system instead of a subwoofer for every speaker channel. On the other hand you will want to keep the ports clear of obstruction, you will want 2 to 3 inches of room for them. As for being inside of a cabinet, it won't make too much of a difference what sub you place there, as long as the cabinet is well braced and no loose stuff is on the shelves. Any sub you put in there is going to rattle everything in the entertainment center, so hopefully your entertainment center is solid. Another thing, any sub you try to hide is going to need ventilation, or else you will be looking at thermal issues.

Tower speakers do have more output capability in the range where there are multiple woofers, but I doubt you would be pushing your speakers hard enough to reach that difference. With Klipsch speakers, I would be more worried about hearing loss at that point than the speaker's performance ceiling.
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post #8 of 38 Old 03-02-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

My recommended system: RB-61 front left/right, RC-62 center speaker, RB-41 surrounds, Hsu VTF2 mk4 subwoofer. It costs less, and I think that would sound better, mainly due to the superior subwoofer and center speaker.

Wouldn't the Rythmik LV12R probably be the better choice over the HSU since they are on sale right now?

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post #9 of 38 Old 03-02-2013, 02:57 PM
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The Rythmik would be a great choice as well.
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post #10 of 38 Old 03-03-2013, 07:53 AM
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My 2 cents on the center... I happened to be in a listening room Friday where a 52II and 62II were side by side, perfect for a-b ing. Without question, the 62II sounds IMO quite a bit better than the 52II. That said, I'm sitting in front of a 52II right now and it sounds really good. Can't go wrong either way. I picked up a brand new 52II a couple weeks ago just to see if I liked the Klipsch sound in my own room. I liked it so much I ordered a 64II which means I'll be selling the 52 should anyone be interested.

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post #11 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

My recommended system: RB-61 front left/right, RC-62 center speaker, RB-41 surrounds, Hsu VTF2 mk4 subwoofer. It costs less, and I think that would sound better, mainly due to the superior subwoofer and center speaker.

Is there enough of a performance difference between the RB-41 and RB-51 surrounds to remotely justify the price? For someone who would use this system half for music, half for movies, that is.
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post #12 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lexlynx View Post

Is there enough of a performance difference between the RB-41 and RB-51 surrounds to remotely justify the price? For someone who would use this system half for music, half for movies, that is.

I haven't compared the two directly, but the difference is probably only going to be less bass extension and less dynamic range. For surround speakers, I think you could use the RB-41s just fine. However (I just noticed this now), they have an odd combination of key hole bracket and rear-porting. If you mount it directly against the wall via the keyhole, you will block its port and reduce its already not-great bass extension. I think I would rather use this Infinity Primus speaker and these Videosecu mounts, that would make more sense and be less expensive.
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post #13 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I haven't compared the two directly, but the difference is probably only going to be less bass extension and less dynamic range. For surround speakers, I think you could use the RB-41s just fine. However (I just noticed this now), they have an odd combination of key hole bracket and rear-porting. If you mount it directly against the wall via the keyhole, you will block its port and reduce its already not-great bass extension.

Would the effects on bass extension matter at all if I was using a subwoofer?
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post #14 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lexlynx View Post

Would the effects on bass extension matter at all if I was using a subwoofer?

In this case, yes, because the RB-41's extension is already -3 at 85 hz. If you take away the port, which is what you would be doing by mounting it flat against the wall, the -3 dB point will be raised substantially so your surrounds have a mid bass frequency gap from the sub's typical crossover point. I should add that surrounds usually aren't tasked with doing a lot in film sound tracks so this may not be that noticeable of a loss. Still, I would prefer something that can meet the sub's crossover point. I also noticed that the RB-51's have the same rear port and keyhole configuration, so I don't view it as a real alternative, at least when mounting flat against the wall. You would want a mount such as the videosecu one I linked to above with either speaker.

As an affordable alternative, you might look at the Infinity Primus p153 also, it is front ported with keyhole mounts in the rear so the bass extension isn't affected by mounting it directly against the wall. If you want a less expensive option than Klipsch that has deeper bass extension and still has controlled directivity, look at the Hsu HB-1, although you would need some mounts with that one. It doesn't have the hot treble character of Klipsch's compression tweeter though.
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post #15 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 08:11 PM
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Gonna chime in and recommend the RW-12D to match the rest of your reference line. Nearly always on sale at newegg for 300. If you can swing more (500+), there are better subs, but then you can just get 2 RW-12Ds. smile.gif

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post #16 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 08:59 PM
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Here is an alternative to consider...three RB-81s across the front. Whatever Klipsch surround best fits your acoustics. Hsu VTF3 sub. Dynamics equal to the RF52's, perfect tonal match across the front stage, enough extension to not give you a hole in the mid bass dynamics with the sub. When I sold Home Theater gear...I put in a few inexpensive theaters using that setup and it never failed to blow people away. Shut down that company several years back and still regret not keeping a trio of RB-75s. Only issue is that you can not turn the 81 sideways...if you don't have the vertical clearance, go with a horizontal center.
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post #17 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 09:31 PM
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Here is an alternative to consider...three RB-81s across the front. Whatever Klipsch surround best fits your acoustics. Hsu VTF3 sub. Dynamics equal to the RF52's, perfect tonal match across the front stage, enough extension to not give you a hole in the mid bass dynamics with the sub. When I sold Home Theater gear...I put in a few inexpensive theaters using that setup and it never failed to blow people away. Shut down that company several years back and still regret not keeping a trio of RB-75s. Only issue is that you can not turn the 81 sideways...if you don't have the vertical clearance, go with a horizontal center.

How does the VTF3 sub compare with the VTF2 MK4 recommended earlier in the thread?
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post #18 of 38 Old 03-26-2013, 10:43 PM
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How does the VTF3 sub compare with the VTF2 MK4 recommended earlier in the thread?

The VTF3's larger cabinet and longer ports are going to give you more powerful and cleaner deep bass. Above 30 hz I am guessing it wouldn't get a lot louder than the VTF2.
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post #19 of 38 Old 03-27-2013, 07:41 PM
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The VTF3 also has a side firing driver vs a bottom firing driver. Better if you are not on a slab floor. And it does go deeper with a bit more authority. Worth the extra $110 if this is to be the primary theater.
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post #20 of 38 Old 03-28-2013, 02:29 AM
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Pretty much my question is this: Would this setup be overpowering for that space, if so what would be a better option, and also is Klipsch the way to go or not? I've read a bunch of reviews and actually went to a store today and "test drove" them and didn't notice the "tinny" sound that I have since been reading about all day. To be completely honest, I have never really been able to CRANK the setup I have now (the better half makes me keep it at a modest level, hence the need for a man cave) so I never noticed any "tinny" sound from them either, perhaps at higher levels this becomes more apparent. Are there better comparative speakers that I should look into at about that same price point? And any better sub ideas?

 

As someone who has some rather large Klipsch speakers in a rather small apartment, I want to assure you that (as long as they'll physically fit) you can never have them overpowering the space.  You have a volume knob....you can always turn them down.  It has been my experience that the larger you go, the better the sound quality.

 

As for them not sounding tinny or honky....  trust your ears, not your eyes (trust what you hear, not read).

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post #21 of 38 Old 03-29-2013, 10:04 AM
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I would Agee with you on size and sound quality...to a point. One thing which is often overlooked in large scale speakers in small spaces (and as somebody who had a pair if Acoustat model 6 s in a dorm room size apartment I can attest to the experience) is the lack of flexibility to tune for acoustics thru positioning. Fact is, it is much harder to reposition an over scale speaker in a small space. Equalization can only do so much and not everybody does room acoustics... though they should. So, in the case of...say an RF82 vs RBI 81, it positioning the RB made for smoother top end tonal response, that will be the better choice.
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post #22 of 38 Old 04-08-2013, 03:17 PM
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I have an BIC Accoustech H100 sub. I am definitely upgrading my SLS Q-Line speakers to the Klipsches, but would upgrading to the Hsu VTF2 mk4 subwoofer be worth it, if the H100 is already loud enough for my room?
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post #23 of 38 Old 04-08-2013, 03:45 PM
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The VTF2 will go a lot deeper and sound much cleaner, in my opinion, yes it is worth it.
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post #24 of 38 Old 04-08-2013, 06:40 PM
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Sweet, thanks yet again for your advice. I've been enjoying the H100 immensely for about 3 years now, even after I had to leave it behind in the Hong Kong airport due to deceptively advertised weight restrictions, I still got another one when I returned to the US. It's been the best bass I've heard, so I'm all for going one better.
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post #25 of 38 Old 05-04-2013, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Another thing is, the surrounds don't do a whole lot so don't spend a lot on them. I would go for bookshelf speaker surrounds. RB41s would be adequate for surround speakers.

My recommended system: RB-61 front left/right, RC-62 center speaker, RB-41 surrounds, Hsu VTF2 mk4 subwoofer. It costs less, and I think that would sound better, mainly due to the superior subwoofer and center speaker.

Is there a reason you don't recommend RS-42 for surround? It seems they were specifically designed for surround activity, plus they're somewhat cheaper than the RB-41s.
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post #26 of 38 Old 05-05-2013, 01:42 AM
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The RB-41 is cheaper than the RS-42. I would go with the RB-41 because you will have more control over how the surround sound stage sounds. The Bipole rs-42 will turn the surround sound stage into one big ambiguous smear. It might sound more spacious but it will be at the cost of intelligibility.
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post #27 of 38 Old 05-05-2013, 05:21 AM
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IF you are going to go with Klipsch (which I almost did) and the room layout lends itself to using dipole/bipole speakers, then go with the RS42's. If not, dont try to force them in. Use the Rb41's instead. FWIW-I went with PSB Image speakers (B5's/C4) in the front and they are just awesome, both for HT and music listening usage.

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post #28 of 38 Old 05-05-2013, 08:16 AM
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I did some research, and it turns out the bipole really aren't for me, as I use my speakers for music 70% of the time. Which is actually REALLY great news- for the same price, I can go with 2 RB61's for the back, and have all my speakers be top of the Reference line! Ah, no regrets in that scenario. Excluding the floorstanding models and their equivalent center channel, of course.

Does anyone know a dealer that will give a good discount on a Klipsch package?
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post #29 of 38 Old 05-05-2013, 09:17 AM
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Each to their own opinion and in my case I love the RS-42s.
They are positioned so the drivers point directly at three listening positions.
I would never describe the sound as smeared, and really do not understand that statement at all.
If a bookshelf will take care of the room it is certainly less expensive to go that route and for the same money you can jump up a size, but if you have a fairly large room and would like to cover multiple seating positions spread across the room the RS speakers are very flexible.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #30 of 38 Old 05-05-2013, 12:55 PM
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The best prices I have seen are thru IQ Home Entertainment. iq-av.com. They sell thru Amazon, but they beat their own prices by a lot when I went to check out Klipsch in their store. Ask for Craig....he will take care of you. Like I said....killer prices. Use their prices on the website as a guide, but they will beat those prices.

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