Klipsch or Paradigm - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been to best buy and listened to $450/each Icon series floor standers. They sounded good. From reading reviews here I'm guessing the RF-62 II floor standers will be even better. I've also been to an audio shop where I had the opportunity of an audiophile telling me that Paradigm was so much better and building a 5.1 system around the Monitor 7 floor standers would be so much better and only $500 more. Now keep in mind my basement is 350 sq. ft.

So I'm definitely not doubting that Paradigm is better overall. However, something sounds wrong here when I saw the actual size of the speakers and the tiny sounds that came out of them before problems began. I'm not an audiophile and not particularly informed on the subject but I think I see value when it is in front of me. Seems that Klipsch provides better value - that is, if you plan on sending kids to college. The Paradigm system based around the Monitor 7 towers seemed more appropriate for a den. Am I wrong on that? Did I miss something? They didn't appear to have much more umph then the Audioengine A2s that sit on my computer desk whereas the Klipsch sort of were impressive right away. I can only imagine what they would sound like with the Big 4 Blu-ray in there.
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post #2 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 04:29 PM
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Take a look into aperion audio.
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post #3 of 27 Old 03-07-2013, 04:32 PM
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I owned a couple different tower speakers from Aperion. Purchased Klipsch RF7IIs and will not be upgrading my speakers again. I say go Klipsch. Excellent for HT and Music

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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post #4 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 03:48 AM
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Klipsh are nice but I get ear fatigue. In the end it's all gonna depend on your own ears. Nobody else. One thing to remember though Just because ur ears like the horns of klipsh doesn't mean your family or guest will... People Eather love or hate. No in between... Aperion... Everybody just loves them. In my house its for everybody as well as my self...
Versus grand towers is where it's at....
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post #5 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 05:19 AM
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Yeah the old Klipsch hurts your ears. I have my system hooked up to my living room so gets used everyday and no complaints from family or friends. It's more of a room problem not treated, hard floors etc...not a Klipsch making your ear bleed problem. Silk domes I was missing a lot of dialogue. Not the case with Klipsch. I owned 3 Aperion towers across the front. First were the 633s and then the 6 Ts. Glad I sold them and went Klipsch.

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post #6 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheikhayoub View Post

They didn't appear to have much more umph then the Audioengine A2s that sit on my computer desk whereas the Klipsch sort of were impressive right away.

What do you mean by "umph?" Bass response? Or ability to get loud? What specifically?

Klipsch speakers do have a much higher sensitivity rating than Paradigms, which means they will get louder with the same amount of power from an amplifier/receiver. So if you are looking for the best maximum volume, Klipsch will be a better choice than Paradigms.

Otherwise, I would agree that Klipsch have a bolder sound, and it's partially due to the characteristic of their highs which also leads some people to find them fatiguing. But that's only one attribute to take into account. A bold, strong-flavored food will call more attention to itself than one that is more subtle and nuanced in taste, but that doesn't necessarily make the bolder better. With speakers, there are a lot of factors to consider when thinking about how they "taste": imaging, soundstage, detail resolution, flatness of the frequency response vs colored sound signature, etc.

So your personal listening tastes will have a lot to do with how you perceive the different "flavors" of the speakers. Unfortunately, room acoustics will also be a big factor. Even if you like one in the store, it might sound a little bit different in your room.

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post #7 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Klipsch speakers do have a much higher sensitivity rating than Paradigms, which means they will get louder with the same amount of power from an amplifier/receiver. .
That's what they claim, but other than in the range of the horn loaded tweeter operation it isn't true.
OP, if you can't compare them side by side then the only way to make an accurate comparison is by looking at SPL charts. If the manufacturer doesn't have any and you can find any then look elsewhere.

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post #8 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That's what they claim, but other than in the range of the horn loaded tweeter operation it isn't true.

Really? Because they keep getting recommended on AVS for how loud they can get.

Not doubting you, Bill. Just surprises me because of the reputation that they have here.

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post #9 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 09:41 AM
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As mentioned by a previous poster, you really need to listen for yourself. I have owned both Klipsch and Paradigm. The Klipsch are long gone and the Paradigms remain. I also suffer from ear fatigue from the horn tweeters of the Klipsch. I will say they were great for movies and dialog. Be aware that Paradigm speakers aren't the value thy used to be. In many cases, Internet direct brands can get you more speaker for the money. Aperion that was suggested earlier has a strong reputation.
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post #10 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Really? Because they keep getting recommended on AVS for how loud they can get.
Compared to what? With similar driver sizes, driver count and cabinet size you will have similar sensitivity. Where Klipsch is different is their horn loaded tweeters, and those are higher in sensitivity than cones, domes, ribbons etc. But it's only the tweeters that are more sensitive, not the rest.

As for how sensitivity is supposed to be rated, it's roughly the average in the 100 to 200Hz bandwidth with full range speakers, so having a higher sensitivity tweeter would have no effect on the speaker's rated sensitivity if you're quoting that sensitivity according to AES/EIA standards. Other than with their Heritage series, Klipsch doesn't.

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post #11 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Compared to what? With similar driver sizes, driver count and cabinet size you will have similar sensitivity. Where Klipsch is different is their horn loaded tweeters, and those are higher in sensitivity than cones, domes, ribbons etc. But it's only the tweeters that are more sensitive, not the rest.

As for how sensitivity is supposed to be rated, it's roughly the average in the 100 to 200Hz bandwidth with full range speakers, so having a higher sensitivity tweeter would have no effect on the speaker's rated sensitivity if you're quoting that sensitivity according to AES/EIA standards. Other than with their Heritage series, Klipsch doesn't.

Sorry. I didn't mean to sound like I disagreed with you. I'm just surprised how often the Klipsch Ref series gets recommended as superior for getting louder for HT usage because of their sensitivity.

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post #12 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Sorry. I didn't mean to sound like I disagreed with you. I'm just surprised how often the Klipsch Ref series gets recommended as superior for getting louder for HT usage because of their sensitivity.
For every guy who raves about they're being louder another complains about them being harsh, and the horn loaded tweeter is the cause in both cases. The Ref series woofers are not horn loaded, so they won't be any louder than anyone else's.
Not that horn loaded tweeters are harsh per se. What is harsh is when they aren't padded down so that they have the same sensitivity as the cone drivers. Some like their highs hot, some don't. To each their own.

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post #13 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 12:40 PM
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See what I mean??? They Eather love them or hate them.... Lol let ur and who ever ur gonna be injoying it with determin what u get. Just a FYI aperion has a 30 day no question asked return. If u don't like them send them back... U can test them in ur own settings...
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post #14 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

For every guy who raves about they're being louder another complains about them being harsh, and the horn loaded tweeter is the cause in both cases. The Ref series woofers are not horn loaded, so they won't be any louder than anyone else's.
Not that horn loaded tweeters are harsh per se. What is harsh is when they aren't padded down so that they have the same sensitivity as the cone drivers. Some like their highs hot, some don't. To each their own.

Thanks for the education, Bill. I think I would learn a lot more if I blocked everyone else on the site and just read your posts smile.gif

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post #15 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 01:13 PM
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My biggest complaint with the speakers I've owned up until now has been dialogue clarity in movies. I often had to crank up the volume to hear the dialogue, then turn it down during loud actions scenes. Simply bumping up the level on the center channel never helped quite as much as I had hoped, and I felt it affected the balance of the front soundstage.

Perhaps this is entirely due to the horn-loaded tweeter, but my Klipsch Reference speakers have completely solved this problem. Dialogue clarity is incredible, even at low to moderate volumes. In some cases, I'm hearing dialogue that wasn't even intelligible before (in movies I've watched a dozen times). I know Klipsch is a love it or hate it speaker, but I'm glad I decided to give them a shot despite all the complaints about "brightness" or "harshness."
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post #16 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 01:13 PM
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I have not listened to Klipsch Speakers in many years. I was interested in them because of their high sensitivity and wide dispersion. To me, they sounded "horny". But, thats my opinion. Buy what you like to listen to.

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post #17 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 03:27 PM
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I say go with Klipsch. Not sure why.wink.gif

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post #18 of 27 Old 03-08-2013, 04:34 PM
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Both are great, IMO the real difference would be the tweeters as others have mentioned. The Klipsch horns are brighter, they have a more in your face sound. Some people really like it, others don't. Try listening to them at high volumes for as long as the store/sales associate will let you. wink.gif When I find a speaker to be harsh, it usually doesn't take that long to set in at high volumes.

The paradigm will be slightly softer, maybe more natural or closer to the original recording (although not necessarily close to original recording in comparison to other speaker technology, just in comparison to the Klipsch as an example). Also, I like the imaging/sound stage from the dome tweeters a bit better than the horns. Try standing directly in the middle of the two speakers you're listening to, and equal distance (or slightly more than) the distance between the two, away from them. Play some familiar music and close your eyes. Do the speakers disappear? The klipsch certainly image nicely together, but I do prefer the paradigms in this case.

That being said, I think that based on what you have already said the Klipsch might be the better option for you. It sounds like you like the brightness, the impressive in your face sound that grabs your attention. They are great speakers, it sounds like they will be considerably cheaper for you, and you actually preffered the sound. I would suggest taking in your own demo material to both shops again, and giving them another listen. Make your decision based on your impressions with familiar material. And certainly, look at other manufacturers as well like others have stated.
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post #19 of 27 Old 03-09-2013, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I think my initial impression was wrong. Went back and gave the paradigms a real critical review after taking some pointers on how to do that. I think they are much better than Klipsch personally but I purchased a system based around the monitor 11s and went above my original budget. I gave the Icons another try at a different BB and they overwhelmed me too much. Also my wife said no. They had a set up where I felt more comfortable turning it up.

Listened to Stravinsky,Candlemass, Willie Nelson, Grieg,some random Jazz.All sounded great. Punchy lows, good sound staging,quickly and slightly bright but far closer to neutral than Klipsch.

So I stand corrected.
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post #20 of 27 Old 12-02-2013, 12:45 PM
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Hello,

Im own a dozen paradigm speakers in my home.
Titans, monitors, micros and phantoms and subs.
Yes, im biased.

The vifa tweeters in my opinion are a more natural high freq range sound and the quality wood cabinets offer a balanced dampening for mid range to low range.
The woofers give great low response and will not compete with the higher frequencies.
The sound quality is balanced.
Some call it studio quality.

Let the receiver and the program mastering determine the sound.
Not the speakers.

Mike
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post #21 of 27 Old 12-02-2013, 06:30 PM
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I really like Paradigm speakers. They would be my choice in this scenario.

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post #22 of 27 Old 12-03-2013, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Compared to what? With similar driver sizes, driver count and cabinet size you will have similar sensitivity. Where Klipsch is different is their horn loaded tweeters, and those are higher in sensitivity than cones, domes, ribbons etc. But it's only the tweeters that are more sensitive, not the rest.

As for how sensitivity is supposed to be rated, it's roughly the average in the 100 to 200Hz bandwidth with full range speakers, so having a higher sensitivity tweeter would have no effect on the speaker's rated sensitivity if you're quoting that sensitivity according to AES/EIA standards. Other than with their Heritage series, Klipsch doesn't.
I would hardly call a driver that crosses over around 1200 just tweeter lol.

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post #23 of 27 Old 12-03-2013, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

My biggest complaint with the speakers I've owned up until now has been dialogue clarity in movies. I often had to crank up the volume to hear the dialogue, then turn it down during loud actions scenes. Simply bumping up the level on the center channel never helped quite as much as I had hoped, and I felt it affected the balance of the front soundstage.

Um using Klipsch (RF-82 II / RC-62 II / RS 52 II) and I've used them on four different receivers. If all the speakers are level matched, dialogues in CC should be intelligible at any volume. Dialogue clarity has more to do with the DACs/channel separation capability of an avr. Speakers just add icing to the cake.

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post #24 of 27 Old 12-30-2013, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Klipsch speakers do have a much higher sensitivity rating than Paradigms, which means they will get louder with the same amount of power from an amplifier/receiver. .
That's what they claim, but other than in the range of the horn loaded tweeter operation it isn't true.
OP, if you can't compare them side by side then the only way to make an accurate comparison is by looking at SPL charts. If the manufacturer doesn't have any and you can find any then look elsewhere.

Can you recommend a good manufacturer that provides them?
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post #25 of 27 Old 12-30-2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Um using Klipsch (RF-82 II / RC-62 II / RS 52 II) and I've used them on four different receivers. If all the speakers are level matched, dialogues in CC should be intelligible at any volume. Dialogue clarity has more to do with the DACs/channel separation capability of an avr. Speakers just add icing to the cake.
Not even remotely true -- if you think the DACs or channel separation of your AVR has more to do with dialogue clarity than say your speakers (or more importantly their interaction with the room) than I have some million dollar DACs to sell you....

If dialogue clarity is poor, I would put good money to the cause being either poor speaker design (arrangements prone to lobing issues or crossover deficiencies) or poor interaction with the room and/or other speakers therein. Neither would ever, ever be solved by magical DACs or better channel separations specs. Moreover, in the case of the latter, I doubt you could find a modern AVR with such poor channel separation to could cause issues.

edit: P.S. as for tsaville -- if your problem was solved by the Klipsch, it could very well be because of the horn and its directivity. The waveguide helps control reflections off your, very likely untreated, walls/floors and "aims" it towards the listening area better. That, more than anything, is likely why you have better results with their speakers than others, they integrate better with your room.
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post #26 of 27 Old 01-02-2014, 02:23 PM
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I have both Paradigm and Klipsch speakers. I say try to get the best bang you can for the buck. There are some good deals on B stock Klipsch R-7ii's out there. Figure up how much you can afford and get the most speaker for the money. You will be pleased with either brand. They are both good speaker manufactures. The Paradigm studios are upstairs and the Klipsch Reference is downstairs.

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post #27 of 27 Old 01-04-2014, 09:42 PM
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I would suggest listening to the speakers several more times.
You need to pick what you like, not what any of us like or what the salesman wants you to buy.
I personally like Klipsch and Paradigm speakers and could be perfectly happy with either.

Regards,
Charlie

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