AVS Forum

AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/)
-   Speakers (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/)
-   -   I have 5000 $ budget for a 5.1 speaker setup... (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1463704-i-have-5000-budget-5-1-speaker-setup.html)

Rash1 03-16-2013 10:11 PM

Hello, I'm starting a new theater room project in my new home.. i have approximatly 5000$ budget for speakers... I had Axiom Epic 60-500 before, and was not super impressed with the bass blending of my setup. Granted my acoustics where probably not tops, but i'm looking to start at ground zero. What is the best 5.1 setup speakers, with good center speaker and good bass for a 14 x 16 foot room .

Thanks for inputs..

i live in a town with not that much choice in distributors...

RASH

jbrown15 03-16-2013 11:02 PM

You could build a really nice system and order everything from Ascend Acoustics!
Going with Sierra towers, Sierra horizon, a pair of CBM-170 for surrounds and a FV15HP for your sub.

That would be a pretty hard 5.1 system to beat for under $5000.

Rash1 03-16-2013 11:23 PM

Thanks for your input.... i'll look into those...

so many brands out there... sometimes difficult to find reviews on every make...

jbrown15 03-17-2013 12:14 AM

The Sierra towers are very highly regarded as an excellent speaker, you'd have a hard time finding negative comments about them. The FV15HP sub is an absolute beast of a sub if the size doesn't bother you. If you were ordering everything threw Ascend you get a discount too.

Billy p 03-17-2013 09:44 AM

Having owned Axiom products I can tell you of their strenght and weakness...I never owned a Axiom sub so I won't comment on them but I've never experienced bass limitation or issues when using my current sub with Axiom products....yeah...some rooms do come into play and can efffect the sound but most avrs with RC/EQ software tame those issues.

I now own Ascend speakers that I'm extremely happy with and would highly recommend them...I know with that budget you'll have many options as others will likely point out or suggest....fwiw...recently another member switched from Axiom's to some Aperions(ID also) and posted his thoughts in their speaker forum thread...AAMOF...one new Ascend owner is using his M80's as surrounds with his new RAAL towers up front....if that tells you anything....cool.gif

Good luck....smile.gif

Rash1 03-17-2013 02:16 PM

Thanks... now i gotta shop for an amp...AV receiver...

AV Science Sales 5 03-17-2013 02:45 PM

Since this is for HT, not a big compelling reason to go with a tower speaker, since a sub/subs will be used. When you set the crossover to 80Hz, you will not be using the lower bass response a tower speaker usually gives you. Now if this was a dual purpose system, HT and two channel music, then towers make a lot more sense. I would go with book shelf and use the saved money for a second sub. That would give you more bang for your buck. If you would like to talk specifics, give us a call.

Rash1 03-17-2013 07:15 PM

Thanks, What about mainstream makes, like JBL, Polk Audio, paradigm, monitor audio, Klipsch ... these are more readily available in my area...?

AcuDefTechGuy 03-18-2013 07:53 AM

I would get a system that not only sound great, but also measures great on Stereophile, Soundstage/NRC, or Home Theater Magazine.

Speakers like Revel (F12/C12/M12) & KEF (Q900/cQ600/Q300) are 2 examples. They sound great and measure great as well. Members have been able to obtain these systems for around $2200-$2300 for 5 speakers.

Then get dual Rythmik FV15HP (H550) for another $2300.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

Newbie01 03-18-2013 12:51 PM

Lets not leave out Dennis Murphy or Jim Sulk speakers... And I agree with the Rythmik ...but I own a FV15HP...great sub.

Emig5m 03-18-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Since this is for HT, not a big compelling reason to go with a tower speaker, since a sub/subs will be used. When you set the crossover to 80Hz, you will not be using the lower bass response a tower speaker usually gives you.

Yea but sometimes a tower speaker in the same lineup have a better midrange driver and that is still noticeable when using a sub. Example: B&W 685 bookshelf vs the 683. On the other hand the 684 tower has the same bass/mid driver as the smaller bookshelf so then I would agree with just getting the bookshelf speaker with a sub in that case. But that isn't always the case... The 683's midrange shines over the bookshelf sub or no sub....

Rash1 03-19-2013 05:06 PM

so many choices, so little budget.. i Wonder how important is listening to speakers before you buy, because its impossible to reproduce same environnement and specs from one store to another..so its a bit difficult to choose ... thanks for the inputs guys... nobody likes the paradigms?

AV Science Sales 5 03-19-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Yea but sometimes a tower speaker in the same lineup have a better midrange driver and that is still noticeable when using a sub. Example: B&W 685 bookshelf vs the 683. On the other hand the 684 tower has the same bass/mid driver as the smaller bookshelf so then I would agree with just getting the bookshelf speaker with a sub in that case. But that isn't always the case... The 683's midrange shines over the bookshelf sub or no sub....

The recommendation for a bookshelf over the tower applies when looking at what you get for the same dollar value. You combine that with losing the low end ability of the tower to the sub and I still say there is not a compelling argument to go with towers.

wpbpete 03-19-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The recommendation for a bookshelf over the tower applies when looking at what you get for the same dollar value. You combine that with losing the low end ability of the tower to the sub and I still say there is not a compelling argument to go with towers.

Sorry Mike but I have to disagree. I was recently shopping for speakers and found that by the time I added a good set of speaker stands I'd be spending close to and at times more than the towers. And you'd be getting better overall speakers. Now if asthetics and space are a priority then I would agree.
As for the OP If i had not gotten such a fantastic deal on my Thiel SCS4T I would've purchased a set of Focal Chorus 806V

PlexMulti 03-19-2013 05:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The recommendation for a bookshelf over the tower applies when looking at what you get for the same dollar value. You combine that with losing the low end ability of the tower to the sub and I still say there is not a compelling argument to go with towers.

This is correct.

Having a speaker that goes down far past 80hz doesn't matter in a multi-channel system because the speakers, when setup correctly, will never... ever see that from the processor/amp. In-general, signals under 80hz get cutoff and rerouted to the subwoofer. Why? Because bass under 80hz offers no localization, Dolby Labs set the AC3 standard this way to allow for the best subwoofer placement for the room. This yields, in properly set systems, the best sound for a MOVIE sound track. Again, this has NOTHING to do with 2 channel listening and is NOT part of this reasoning or setup.

There is one particular reason (performance wise) to go with larger speakers for HT use and that is if your room is incredibly large and you will need the extra extension to hit reference volumes. Even then, there are some really large "bookshelf" speakers that are designed for maximum output all the way to 80hz in large rooms. Can you run some of those as full range or "large"? Sure. Does it do anything for you? Not unless you are without sub.

Klipsch THX Ultra2 & Atlantic Technology's 8200e systems are designed for large rooms and neither of those are floor standing. Phase Technology dARTS will play reference level sound pressures in incredibly large spaces and that system uses 6 1/2" woofers in very compact speakers. ADAM-Audio has two GTC models that will do high output in largish rooms. PSB has speakers like this as well. Many many companies do.

BG Radia has an in-wall, the SA-360 http://bgcorp.com/PDFs/SA-360%20ProductSheet.pdf that is not particularly huge at 32" tall. It utilizes 2, 8" woofers for the low end. While you can run these as "large" and use them as 2 channel stereo speakers if desired, this speaker will absolutely crush a HUGE room when crossed over to 80hz. We used this coupled with a Parasound 5250 in a 40' wide x 50' deep open basement behind a 165" screen and it was unreal. Absolutely did NOT flinch at reference at the seating position 20' away. Crystal clear and dynamic without breaking a sweat.

My point is that if you look at most manufacturers theater system offerings, you will not find many floor standing models. In fact, it's quite the opposite: A great many large monitors. Typically, you are going to get a much better system, with higher quality for the $$$$ if you stick with models engineered for high output down to 80hz. One exception to this would be line arrays where a larger wave form is needed to cover multiple rows of seating.

Hope this helps someone!

PlexMulti 03-19-2013 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbpete View Post

Sorry Mike but I have to disagree. I was recently shopping for speakers and found that by the time I added a good set of speaker stands I'd be spending close to and at times more than the towers. And you'd be getting better overall speakers. Now if asthetics and space are a priority then I would agree.
As for the OP If i had not gotten such a fantastic deal on my Thiel SCS4T I would've purchased a set of Focal Chorus 806V

I understand what you are saying, but it can't be factored into the discussion because needing stands or not is not relevant to performance of the speaker itself in the given application (a multi-channel system for AC3 WITH a sub). You also have to take into account variables that would cause people to not need stands (price consideration of which is a variable in and of itself). For example, maybe the have a built in unit, or they want to wall mount, or a false wall, etc.

Also, when you say, "You'd be getting better overall speakers." My response would be, "For what purpose?". For multi-channel with subwoofer? I would say no. For 2 channel music? Sure, absolutely! It all depends on the use.

AV Science Sales 5 03-19-2013 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbpete View Post

Sorry Mike but I have to disagree. I was recently shopping for speakers and found that by the time I added a good set of speaker stands I'd be spending close to and at times more than the towers. And you'd be getting better overall speakers. Now if asthetics and space are a priority then I would agree.
As for the OP If i had not gotten such a fantastic deal on my Thiel SCS4T I would've purchased a set of Focal Chorus 806V

Generally towers in the same price range as book shelf speakers do not have as well braced a cabinet and often times tower speakers at the same price point do not have as good components. The shipping cost difference helps pay for the speaker stands. If using an AT screen like I am, then you have next to nothing in speaker stands. smile.gif I guess we should ask the OP'er what is his listening distance and does he want to be able to push the volume or does he only listen at moderate volume levels.

Rash1 03-19-2013 08:12 PM

OK, my room will be 14" wide, 18" long 8" high and most times i listen normal tv listening, but sometimes loud full special effects in action movies....

AcuDefTechGuy 03-19-2013 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

so many choices, so little budget.. i Wonder how important is listening to speakers before you buy, because its impossible to reproduce same environnement and specs from one store to another..so its a bit difficult to choose ... thanks for the inputs guys... nobody likes the paradigms?

Budget equals compromise. I think when you force a speaker to do too much, it can adversely affect the most important aspect of any speaker - the midrange. I think the bass of any speaker is the weakest link.

So whatever you choose, I think the key is to just set the speakers to small and crossover at 80Hz and let some great subwoofers handle all the mighty bass and allow your main speakers to have the most clarity of midrange as possible.

I think you will be very happy with most speakers recommended here. So focus on other aspects as well and weed out some speakers.

Do you care if your speakers have great measurements? Great aesthetic ? Great reputation? Great price/ bargain?

Some people would not even look at speakers that either don't have any measurements or have bad measurements. They feel it's an important part of the speaker. A lot of people make fun of speakers that have bad measurements or don't have any measurements at all. it may be okay today, but will that slowly bother you over time?

I've heard the Paradigm Studio 100 v3 at a local dealer. I hated the sound of it. But it was not in my own room and setup. They may sound much better in my room and setup.

PlexMulti 03-20-2013 06:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Budget equals compromise. I think when you force a speaker to do too much, it can adversely affect the most important aspect of any speaker - the midrange. I think the bass of any speaker is the weakest link.

So whatever you choose, I think the key is to just set the speakers to small and crossover at 80Hz and let some great subwoofers handle all the mighty bass and allow your main speakers to have the most clarity of midrange as possible.

I think you will be very happy with most speakers recommended here. So focus on other aspects as well and weed out some speakers.

Do you care if your speakers have great measurements? Great aesthetic ? Great reputation? Great price/ bargain?

Some people would not even look at speakers that either don't have any measurements or have bad measurements. They feel it's an important part of the speaker. A lot of people make fun of speakers that have bad measurements or don't have any measurements at all. it may be okay today, but will that slowly bother you over time?

I've heard the Paradigm Studio 100 v3 at a local dealer. I hated the sound of it. But it was not in my own room and setup. They may sound much better in my room and setup.

You aren't the only one, brother. I have NEVER heard a Paradigm speaker I liked (I am not counting subs) - and I have heard more than a fair share. In fact, Paradigm & Triad are my least favorite brands but at least Triad has a few models that I think are strong. The Paradigm rep just offered us the line with Anthem as well. Not my thing!

65 Electra Glide 03-20-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

In fact, Paradigm & Triad are my least favorite brands ...

Even less than Bose?

PlexMulti 03-20-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

Even less than Bose?

Even less than Bose. Although, I don't really think of Bose as a dedicated speaker manufacturer any more. They are more in the business of gadgets to me.

I have heard a Bose speaker I was more impressed with than anything I have ever heard from Paradigm, however. The Bose L1 systems are really nice for small live music performances.

AcuDefTechGuy 03-20-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

You aren't the only one, brother. I have NEVER heard a Paradigm speaker I liked (I am not counting subs) - and I have heard more than a fair share. In fact, Paradigm & Triad are my least favorite brands but at least Triad has a few models that I think are strong. The Paradigm rep just offered us the line with Anthem as well. Not my thing!

Paradigm speakers often have really nice FR measurements; so I assumed my experience with Paradigm was an outlier.

I know a very honest dealer who also hated Paradigm, even the Signature flagship model.

But apparently there are a lot of happy Paradigm owners. So I don't know. biggrin.gif

jbrown15 03-20-2013 02:19 PM

I've had a friends Studio 100v5 in my theater room along with the matching CC-690 center channel and didn't like them at all. Once we started to turn up the volume I wasn't impressed at all and they sounded harsh IMO.

AV Science Sales 5 03-20-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Budget equals compromise. I think when you force a speaker to do too much, it can adversely affect the most important aspect of any speaker - the midrange. I think the bass of any speaker is the weakest link.

So whatever you choose, I think the key is to just set the speakers to small and crossover at 80Hz and let some great subwoofers handle all the mighty bass and allow your main speakers to have the most clarity of midrange as possible.

I think you will be very happy with most speakers recommended here. So focus on other aspects as well and weed out some speakers.

Do you care if your speakers have great measurements? Great aesthetic ? Great reputation? Great price/ bargain?

Some people would not even look at speakers that either don't have any measurements or have bad measurements. They feel it's an important part of the speaker. A lot of people make fun of speakers that have bad measurements or don't have any measurements at all. it may be okay today, but will that slowly bother you over time?

I've heard the Paradigm Studio 100 v3 at a local dealer. I hated the sound of it. But it was not in my own room and setup. They may sound much better in my room and setup.

I disagree with the bold. I don't think I have worked with a customer yet, where the word compromise did not come up. The compromise is often times cost and or room. It does not matter if we are talking about a $5,000 system or a $100,000 system. Most of the time I am working with front projection systems. If using a solid screen, then you are compromising the sound, because the center speaker location has to be below or above the screen. You go with an AT screen to get the speaker locations correct and often times you have to compromise on the screen size if using woven, due to low gain or compromise on sound a little bit due to perf. I bet you can't find a dedicated theater build on AVS that the word compromise did not come up. Lots of time it is compromise due to WAF. I see it all the time.

Nethawk 03-20-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

You aren't the only one, brother. I have NEVER heard a Paradigm speaker I liked (I am not counting subs) - and I have heard more than a fair share.

+2

PlexMulti 03-20-2013 05:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Paradigm speakers often have really nice FR measurements; so I assumed my experience with Paradigm was an outlier.

I know a very honest dealer who also hated Paradigm, even the Signature flagship model.

But apparently there are a lot of happy Paradigm owners. So I don't know. biggrin.gif

I would have to agree with your dealer friend on all counts. The rep tries to position them as a high end brand, but absolutely not - to my ears. Conversations I've had with reps who sell it and who have sold it in the past about Paradigm and what they value in terms of measurements and why strike me as really silly and, obviously, I disagree with them.

AcuDefTechGuy 03-20-2013 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The compromise is often times cost and or room. It does not matter if we are talking about a $5,000 system or a $100,000 system.

$100,000 is a budget.

Does a $5,000,000 system have the same compromise as a $5,000 system?

No.

AcuDefTechGuy 03-20-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

I would have to agree with your dealer friend on all counts. The rep tries to position them as a high end brand, but absolutely not - to my ears. Conversations I've had with reps who sell it and who have sold it in the past about Paradigm and what they value in terms of measurements and why strike me as really silly and, obviously, I disagree with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

Even less than Bose. Although, I don't really think of Bose as a dedicated speaker manufacturer any more. They are more in the business of gadgets to me.

I have heard a Bose speaker I was more impressed with than anything I have ever heard from Paradigm, however. The Bose L1 systems are really nice for small live music performances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I've had a friends Studio 100v5 in my theater room along with the matching CC-690 center channel and didn't like them at all. Once we started to turn up the volume I wasn't impressed at all and they sounded harsh IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

+2

Wow, I'm glad I don't own any Paradigm. biggrin.gif

I've heard 2 different Paradigm speakers - 1 at a dealer and 1 at a friend's house. I didn't like either. I guess Paradigm is among the "polarizing" brands like DefTech, B&W, Klipsch, etc.

Some people love them, some people just hate them.

PlexMulti 03-20-2013 06:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post




Wow, I'm glad I don't own any Paradigm. biggrin.gif

I've heard 2 different Paradigm speakers - 1 at a dealer and 1 at a friend's house. I didn't like either. I guess Paradigm is among the "polarizing" brands like DefTech, B&W, Klipsch, etc.

Some people love them, some people just hate them.

Oh, with your sickness I figure it's just a matter of time. I've seen your collection of misfit toys. smile.gif

I absolitely agree with them being polarizing. I would never criticize anyone for owning or loving them, however. It is all personal choice.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.