Paradigm Studio 60 vs 100's - Thoughts? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to stay on budget but remain somewhat future proof. I'm 80/20 movies/music. What do you think about mismatching the 60's with the cc-690 to save a little money to spend on amp/processor? Or do you recommend the 100's with the smaller center. While the cost doesn't differ too much, it can help out elsewhere. Another thought is the room isn't too large (see below) if I go with the 100's maybe I can hold off buying a sub for a while? Or should I just screw it and splurge for the 100's and the 690? Or go with the 60's and the c-590? Any recommendations would be appreciated.

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post #2 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 03:55 PM
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I've been demoing Studio 60's and a CC590 center; I am using an Anthem MRX-500 with an Outlaw 7500 amp (200W X 5), along with Phase Technology dipole rears. The Paradigm trio sounds great with DIRECTV, Oppo BDP-103 (BluRay, CD's, SACD's, Netflix, Pandora, Roku)...I also use the original Martin Logan Dynamo sub (circa 2006). My room is 12X16 with 8' ceilings...carpeting, furniture, pictures, mini-blinds shades, etc.....

Tomorrow, I'll be exchanging the Studio 60's for Studio 100's (demo), also may try Usher BE-718 Mini's.....

As it stands, I really like the Studio 60's; the setup is used about half and half, music, HT. Our bedroom system is set up for mostly music.......In a way, I'm hoping the 60's and 100's are somewhat similar, so I can save myself some money by just staying with the Studio 60's.....
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post #3 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 05:11 PM
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60's are more than enough for movies with a sub. Don't skimp on the center. Only go with 100's if you listen to bass heavy music without a sub. My .02 at least.

Mid's are a tad fuller on 100's too but honestly 60's are more than enough for movies.
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post #4 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for reaffirming. Just finished speaking with someone who shares your views; mismatching the FL/R and center should be fine (i guess which was really my question). I'm going to purchase the 60's w/the 690 tomorrow since movies are much more important to me.

jmac - let me know what you end up going with and why when you have a chance. Thnx.
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post #5 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

60's are more than enough for movies with a sub. Don't skimp on the center. Only go with 100's if you listen to bass heavy music without a sub. My .02 at least.

Mid's are a tad fuller on 100's too but honestly 60's are more than enough for movies.

+1 wink.gif
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post #6 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 06:49 PM
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60's are more than enough for movies with a sub. Don't skimp on the center. Only go with 100's if you listen to bass heavy music without a sub. My .02 at least.

Mid's are a tad fuller on 100's too but honestly 60's are more than enough for movies.

That's what I've heard from other people/sources.......right now, bass in music/movies is spot on; and soundstage/detail has been better than what I anticipated from the Studio 60's (I was using Apogee Centaur Minors, i.e., hybrid ribbons before-huge soundstage with them).
Quote:
jmac - let me know what you end up going with and why when you have a chance. Thnx.

More than likely, I will probably demo the Usher Be-718 Diamond DMD bookshelfs next, instead of the Studio 100's; the dealer has been using them for his own personal use-he says they are quite nice- more "laidback" than the Studio 60's. I'm looking more for HT sound with whatever I purchase......

The point is, I have to repack whatever I demo, lug them back to the dealer in my pickup truck, do the same with the Studio 100's, etc., etc., then order the new ones, etc.....so now that I know what the Studio 60's can do, I am leaning towards them....

I'll keep U updated.....
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post #7 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 07:02 PM
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Going to be honest... I auditioned the crap out of the Paradigm studio line up... 10-100's. Spent allot of my time on 60 vs. 100's and in the end I didn't like any of them.

I don't like PSB either which the leader designer from Paradigm started...

I went with Phil 2's from Dennis Murphy. Excellent excellent speakers. I cant say enough good about them. Most neutral speakers, excellent punchy bass that never muddles the speakers no matter how bass heavy a piece is and neutral highs but they still have the energy to make it feel live...to give you goose bumps.

Anyway...good luck on your search!

HT is all about Center and Sub. That is where your bang should go. Honest, I think you would be happy with something like the Ascend Sierra for L/R/C and something like the 320 SE for rear. They are excellent speakers as well and the center rocks.

If you are looking at subs let me know in a PM will fill you in with what I found (if you care tongue.gif )
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post #8 of 30 Old 03-17-2013, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Ive found it hard to read reviews of speakers the past few months then find a place that has them demo'd. I'm weary of buying something I haven't heard even though dozens of ppl on here recommend. Unfortunately I havent heard the Ascends nor Phils.

I have the Triad in-ceilings as rears.
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post #9 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 05:47 AM
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Well, It turns out that I ended up getting the Studio 100's for demoing (brought the 60's back, which were nice). These things are much bigger/heavier than the 60's. To my ears, they are quite different then the 60's. Much fuller, more detailed than the 60's; seem to be a much better speaker for music-centric material (CD, Pandora, BluRay Concerts, etc)....Haven't tried them with BluRay movie material yet, only a quick sampling of DIRECTV last nite (Celtics-Miami Heat..great game but my Celtics lost a tough one).
The dealer steered me away form the Usher Be-718 Diamond DMD bookshelfs, i.e., that they were better at just straight music applications. He mentioned that he will be getting the Tribute speakers for himself soon.....he said he would give me a great deal on them...no thanks (they list for something like 6 grand)...anyways, I will be using the 100's for a couple of weeks before making a decision; I can getter a much better discount on the 100's if I go that route.....
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post #10 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 06:58 AM
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What is your matching center speaker? What amp are you using? Do you find the 100's bright?
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post #11 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
What is your matching center speaker? What amp are you using?

My post above, in this thread, (Post #2)- says it all, as far as equipment.....
Quote:
Do you find the 100's bright?

no....
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post #12 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:32 AM
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Although I no longer own regular commercial speakers in my theater or 2 channel setup, I have spent a lot of time demo'ing the Paradigm Studio 60 and Studio 100. In my opinion they are very similar, but the main thing you want to make sure is that you get the best center and subs that you can afford. The Studio 60's with the CC-690 would most definitely trump the Studio 100's with a lessor center, ie the CC-590 and below.
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post #13 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 08:09 AM
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I was in a similar position as yourself. I wasn't going to post if you decided on the 60's, but since you seem to be leaning towards the 100's, I say pull the trigger.

I went in with the 60's in mind with their price point. After listening to Goldenear Triton Two's and BW CM-8 I preferred the paradigm. Then I kept listening to the Studio 100 and 60 side by side and the first thing I noticed was a fuller sound and the soundstage was noticeably elevated. The speaker felt more transparent. I had to have them over the 60. I figure I will be using them for at least the next 7 years.

As said previously, I've heard many advice against 100's with 590's. I just received the Paradigm Sub 12. I will get the 690 center and ADP 590 next to finish the system.

I wish the local brick and mortar shops had more brands to audition, but they don't. I would have wanted to listen to Salk's, Phil Harmonics, PSB, and KEF, but they simply were not available. I like the look of the Paradigms the most though.
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post #14 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacari View Post

My post above, in this thread, (Post #2)- says it all, as far as equipment.....
no....

The reason I ask is just like the post above. Get the CC-690. I had the 100's/CC-590 ver. 5 and it wasn't a good match. I also got MRX700 so we almost got the same set up. Can you post your ARC measurement once you received your 100's. Thanks.
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post #15 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

The reason I ask is just like the post above. Get the CC-690. I had the 100's/CC-590 ver. 5 and it wasn't a good match. I also got MRX700 so we almost got the same set up. Can you post your ARC measurement once you received your 100's. Thanks.
We're you referring to me? I actually just received my replacement Studio 100 yesterday for one speaker with a chip in it. I want to let it play for awhile to break in before running ARC. I will def post it then!
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post #16 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 08:52 AM
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No, I was actually referring to JMACARI. Just got a little bit confused also as he is not the thread starter. But if you have an Anthem amp, post your ARC measurements as well.
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post #17 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 12:23 PM
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Here are my ARC results.

MRX 700 / Paradigm Studio 100 / Paradigm Sub 12

p1488966946.jpg
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post #18 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jmacari View Post

(Celtics-Miami Heat..great game but my Celtics lost a tough one).
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Go figure...

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post #19 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 01:53 PM
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Anthem MRX-500;Outlaw 7500 amp (200X5);Studio 100;CC590;Martin Logan Dynamo sub




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post #20 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I ordered the 60's with the CC690 center; I should have them next week. As for prepro/amp, I'm looking at used equip on eBay and audiogon, bidding on a few things. I'll let you know what I end up with and post screen shots. Still researching a Sub although I'd like to know what you guys think of the SVS PB 1000 vs Klipsch SW 112 (or something else in that price range)

Additionally, I ordered techflex, cable pants and bluejeanscable banana plugs which also should be delivered by next week.
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post #21 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Here are my ARC results.

MRX 700 / Paradigm Studio 100 / Paradigm Sub 12


ARC doing a good job of integrating your speakers with your sub? Would be curious to see results charted out. Look like you have your sub crossing with your mains at ~60hz?

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post #22 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

ARC doing a good job of integrating your speakers with your sub? Would be curious to see results charted out. Look like you have your sub crossing with your mains at ~60hz?

ARC will cross all Studio 100's at 60 ha because they are capable of going down deep.
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post #23 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 10:01 PM
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They seem fine. I'm not an expert though. I was used to the sub turned up quite a bit higher so its taking me some time to get used to hah. Initially after ARC it felt a little thinner...but maybe this way the highs will be clearer? I like the full sound though...

Originally had the fronts set to large speakers with the sub volume knob at 50%. After arc the fronts are set to small speakers 80hz. And the correct balanced level of the sub is around 25%
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post #24 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 10:10 PM
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CORESARE's sub output is better than JMACARI.
SARE's front speakers sound brighter than JMACARI, unfortunately ARC can't do anything about it as it can only fix up to 5 kHz. We got identical graph (reason I sold the 100s).
JMACARI graph is perfect, there are dips below 5 kHz so ARC fixed it. Now I know why he told me it doesn't sound bright, the graph shows it. If only my graph is the same as yours, I would have kept my Studio 100's.
Thanks for posting the graphs.
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post #25 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 10:16 PM
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Does it matter I left the mic in the same spot for all 5 measurements? Got lazy at the end lol.
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post #26 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

They seem fine. I'm not an expert though. I was used to the sub turned up quite a bit higher so its taking me some time to get used to hah. Initially after ARC it felt a little thinner...but maybe this way the highs will be clearer? I like the full sound though...

Originally had the fronts set to large speakers with the sub volume knob at 50%. After arc the fronts are set to small speakers 80hz. And the correct balanced level of the sub is around 25%

I know what you mean. After running the ARC, bass is almost none existent. They say, your ears will get used to it. No way, I turned it up the way I want it. And it still sounds good.
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post #27 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Does it matter I left the mic in the same spot for all 5 measurements? Got lazy at the end lol.

Nope, that is crazy. You have to move the mic at least 2 ft away after each measurement.
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post #28 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

Nope, that is crazy. You have to move the mic at least 2 ft away after each measurement.
Ok. I moved the mic for the first couple times. Post 21 shows my graph from the 3rd attempt. On the last attempt I moved the speakers a little and added the feet spikes, but also left the mic still. Looks like it got worse after my last change.
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post #29 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Ok. I moved the mic for the first couple times. Post 21 shows my graph from the 3rd attempt. On the last attempt I moved the speakers a little and added the feet spikes, but also left the mic still. Looks like it got worse after my last change.

I don't know how you did it but you must have at least 5 positions and at least 2 ft away from each position.

For example:

Left speaker.......................................TV.........................................Right speaker




Position 4.........................................................................................Position 5



Position 2....................................Position 1......................................Position 3


Every time you moved the speakers, you need to re run the ARC and compare which one got the best result.
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post #30 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Does it matter I left the mic in the same spot for all 5 measurements? Got lazy at the end lol.

You would want arc to learn the room by moving the mic to multiple locations. That's how arc will determine anomalies in your room and how the speakers respond to them. You will get the best results this way.

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