new home theater and need advice on speaker selection - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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moving into new place and want to have nice home theater. The place is pre wired and has four zones of in wall speakers. Im ok with the current speakers and just want to upgrade the main room for now. Movies 70% Music 30%
Im thinking Klipsch RF-82 II front, RC-62 II center, SW-110 sub. Want do the experts think? I will also need a receiver and leaning towards onkyo TX-NR818. Total budget 4k, here is the layout as

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post #2 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 06:49 AM
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Speakers are fine, but the sub is pretty sorry. Get a real sub from an internet direct manufacturer, like Rythmik, Hsu, or Power Sound Audio. A good sub will allow you to go with bookshelf speaker fronts with little penalty, so get a good sub and go with RB-81 or RB-61 fronts. The 818 ought to be fine for a receiver.
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post #3 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply, i read on the forum how bookshelf with god sub are better than floor standing just need to hear in person to convince myself because its seems that a floor speaker should be better just by size.
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post #4 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:13 AM
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Get the Klipsch RW-12D subwoofer.

You want a 12-inch subwoofer with at least 250 watts of RMS power (not peak).
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post #5 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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forgot to mention but this unit has 9ft concert ceiling and floor with wood over the floor.
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post #6 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainchene View Post

thanks for the reply, i read on the forum how bookshelf with god sub are better than floor standing just need to hear in person to convince myself because its seems that a floor speaker should be better just by size.

As Yoda would say, "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not." smile.gif


Full speakers are better than small speakers, sure, but they still pale in comparison to a good sub - or two subs (to even out the bass in the room). It would be a wiser expenditure of your money to buy a good subwoofer instead of full range speakers.
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post #7 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:54 AM
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thats a very large space you are going to want much more than a 10 inch sub as shadyJ said look at something from Rythmik, Hsu, or Power Sound Audio, SVS
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post #8 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ainchene View Post

its seems that a floor speaker should be better just by size.
It is, in the low frequencies. If the low frequencies are being handled by subs then the extra size, and cost, of floor standers is just wasted space and money. Take the money you save with bookshelves and invest it in at least two twelve inch subs, as in that size room you'll need them.
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9ft concert ceiling and floor with wood over the floor.
Carpet it. Otherwise your HT is an echo chamber.

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post #9 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainchene View Post

Im thinking Klipsch RF-82 II front, RC-62 II center, SW-110 sub.

Are the surrounds already built-in?
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Originally Posted by ainchene View Post

Want do the experts think? I will also need a receiver and leaning towards onkyo TX-NR818.

If you need such a receiver for the multiple zones, then this should do fine.
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Originally Posted by ainchene View Post

Total budget 4k

I think that you could get better speakers for less money and put the savings toward the subwoofer. I would recommend the following system:
3 x Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE + 2 x matching pedestal stands = $1082
1 x SVS PB13-Ultra = $1999

This should leave just enough for your AVR. Or you could go with the Rythmik Audio FV15HP subwoofer instead (almost as good in the deep sub-bass and probably even better at higher bass frequencies) and pocket the difference or put it toward matching surrounds if you need them.
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Originally Posted by ainchene View Post

its seems that a floor speaker should be better just by size.
It is, in the low frequencies. If the low frequencies are being handled by subs then the extra size, and cost, of floor standers is just wasted space and money. Take the money you save with bookshelves and invest it in at least two twelve inch subs, as in that size room you'll need them.

This is generally true, although towers are more likely to have dedicated midrange drivers that can improve sound quality somewhat, as well as additional drivers handling the mid-bass for better dynamics in that range. Whether these improvements are worth the additional cost, which in most cases is rather substantial, is always questionable but may be true for some folks (especially if they have the budget for it) in some situations.
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9ft concert ceiling and floor with wood over the floor.
Carpet it. Otherwise your HT is an echo chamber.

Definitely, and if you can't carpet the entire floor, then at least throw a large (very large) rug on it, making sure that the floor in front of the speakers is covered at the very least.
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post #10 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 09:29 AM
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As has already been stated here, I highly recommend 2 subs vs 1 if you can swing it.

I have 2 modest 10" Velodynes that really fill out my medium size HT by dispersing the LFE more or less equally throughout the listening area. A freq test the other night at -10 Db on my AVR showed that they went silent at 23 Hz but rattled stuff in the walls down to 20 Hz where the test signal ended...

TAM
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post #11 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 09:36 AM
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That's a big area to cover. I definitely recommend two subs as well. I would probably go with HTD's Level 3 speakers all around, and two SVS, Rythmik, or HSU subs.

Level 3 towers pair $799
Level 3 center $199
Level 3 Surround pair $399
Level 3 Surround back pair $399

$1796 for a 7.0 set up, which leaves you with $4000 (budge) - $1796 speaker = $2004 For two subs.

Two SVS PB12-NSD $1538

Two HSU VTF-15H $1758

One 15" dual drivers F25 Rythmik $1399 on sale.

Two Rythmik LV12R $1178

I personally would go with the two HSU VTF-15H subs.


So, if you go with all Level 3 + HSU subs total: $3554.00, and you get 30 days to decide to keep them or send them back.

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post #12 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

That's a big area to cover. I definitely recommend two subs as well. I would probably go with HTD's Level 3 speakers all around, and two SVS, Rythmik, or HSU subs.

Level 3 towers pair $799
Level 3 center $199
Level 3 Surround pair $399
Level 3 Surround back pair $399

$1796 for a 7.0 set up, which leaves you with $4000 (budge) - $1796 speaker = $2004 For two subs.

Two SVS PB12-NSD $1538

Two HSU VTF-15H $1758

One 15" dual drivers F25 Rythmik $1399 on sale.

Two Rythmik LV12R $1178

I personally would go with the two HSU VTF-15H subs.


So, if you go with all Level 3 + HSU subs total: $3554.00, and you get 30 days to decide to keep them or send them back.

Again, there is not much point in getting full range tower speakers if you have bookshelfs with respectable extension and some decent subs. The HTDs look nice but I would go with Level Three Bookshelf speakers instead of the tower speakers. Also skip the HTD Bipole surrounds with a 7.1 system, just get some monopole speakers. Bipoles would be more suited to a 5.1. I would get four of these Infinity Primus p163 speakers for the surrounds instead, they are a lot cheaper, and more appropriate for a discrete surround channels. Also dual VTF15h subs are about $2k shipped but extremely powerful, a single VTF15h alone would be more powerful than two PB12s or Rythmik FV12r subs. However, at $2k, they wouldn't leave a lot of room for a receiver if that has to be included in the $4k budget. A dual VTF3 drive would be a good compromise and save some money, and still be extremely powerful.
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post #13 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

$1796 for a 7.0 set up, which leaves you with $4000 (budge) - $1796 speaker = $2004 For two subs.

That would be $2204 left, if the budget doesn't include the costly multi-zone AVR, that is (I chose to include the cost of the AVR in my other post above).
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I personally would go with the two HSU VTF-15H subs.

The reason that I recommended a single higher-end sub is that the sub may be better in some ways at most volumes (and it takes less room and setup). Additionally, even two VTF-15Hs probably could not match the PB13-Ultra in sheer output below 30 Hz (for a similar cost), or even the FV15HP above 30 Hz (and the FV15HP is significantly less expensive). The main advantage of using two lower-end subs is that they should allow you to achieve a more even frequency response for all of the viewers, and it's hard to argue against this advantage (that and possibly lower distortion at high volumes due to having so much greater cone area).

So for the money, if you want the most output at the lowest frequencies, then the PB13-Ultra may be your best bet. For less money, the FV15HP can just about match the output of two non-colocated VTF-15Hs (and exceed it at most bass frequencies), so I guess this makes it the bargain choice here. And two VTF-15Hs have some important advantages of their own, as described above. Decisions, decisions!
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post #14 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

That's a big area to cover. I definitely recommend two subs as well. I would probably go with HTD's Level 3 speakers all around, and two SVS, Rythmik, or HSU subs.

Level 3 towers pair $799
Level 3 center $199
Level 3 Surround pair $399
Level 3 Surround back pair $399

$1796 for a 7.0 set up, which leaves you with $4000 (budge) - $1796 speaker = $2004 For two subs.

Two SVS PB12-NSD $1538

Two HSU VTF-15H $1758

One 15" dual drivers F25 Rythmik $1399 on sale.

Two Rythmik LV12R $1178

I personally would go with the two HSU VTF-15H subs.


So, if you go with all Level 3 + HSU subs total: $3554.00, and you get 30 days to decide to keep them or send them back.

Never mind. I thought he already had a receiver. Well, that changes things.

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post #15 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

That would be $2204 left, if the budget doesn't include the costly multi-zone AVR, that is (I chose to include the cost of the AVR in my other post above).
The reason that I recommended a single higher-end sub is that the sub may be better in some ways at most volumes (and it takes less room and setup). Additionally, even two VTF-15Hs probably could not match the PB13-Ultra in sheer output below 30 Hz (for a similar cost), or even the FV15HP above 30 Hz (and the FV15HP is significantly less expensive). The main advantage of using two lower-end subs is that they should allow you to achieve a more even frequency response for all of the viewers, and it's hard to argue against this advantage (that and possibly lower distortion at high volumes due to having so much greater cone area).

So for the money, if you want the most output at the lowest frequencies, then the PB13-Ultra may be your best bet. For less money, the FV15HP can just about match the output of two non-colocated VTF-15Hs (and exceed it at most bass frequencies), so I guess this makes it the bargain choice here. And two VTF-15Hs have some important advantages of their own, as described above. Decisions, decisions!

I agree with Robert since I thought you already had a receiver. I would match the front 3 at least, and get the surround / surround back a different brand more inexpensive.

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post #16 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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thank you for all the good advice. Now i just need to do some more reading and start buying and putting together my HT. I know i will ask more questions as i go so hopefully i can have input once i learn from putting together my setup

Thanks again everyone
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post #17 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

That would be $2204 left, if the budget doesn't include the costly multi-zone AVR, that is (I chose to include the cost of the AVR in my other post above).
The reason that I recommended a single higher-end sub is that the sub may be better in some ways at most volumes (and it takes less room and setup). Additionally, even two VTF-15Hs probably could not match the PB13-Ultra in sheer output below 30 Hz (for a similar cost), or even the FV15HP above 30 Hz (and the FV15HP is significantly less expensive). The main advantage of using two lower-end subs is that they should allow you to achieve a more even frequency response for all of the viewers, and it's hard to argue against this advantage (that and possibly lower distortion at high volumes due to having so much greater cone area).

So for the money, if you want the most output at the lowest frequencies, then the PB13-Ultra may be your best bet. For less money, the FV15HP can just about match the output of two non-colocated VTF-15Hs (and exceed it at most bass frequencies), so I guess this makes it the bargain choice here. And two VTF-15Hs have some important advantages of their own, as described above. Decisions, decisions!

The numbers at data-bass.com demonstrate that the FV15HP will have better output below 30hz than the PB13-Ultra.

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post #18 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 02:22 PM
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Which has more output below 30 looks to be mode dependent. They are mostly even from 20 to 30 hz.
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post #19 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 06:49 PM
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Which has more output below 30 looks to be mode dependent. They are mostly even from 20 to 30 hz.

You are right. The FV15HP seems the best price/output performance value.

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post #20 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:18 PM
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That would be $2204 left, if the budget doesn't include the costly multi-zone AVR, that is (I chose to include the cost of the AVR in my other post above).
The reason that I recommended a single higher-end sub is that the sub may be better in some ways at most volumes (and it takes less room and setup). Additionally, even two VTF-15Hs probably could not match the PB13-Ultra in sheer output below 30 Hz (for a similar cost), or even the FV15HP above 30 Hz (and the FV15HP is significantly less expensive). The main advantage of using two lower-end subs is that they should allow you to achieve a more even frequency response for all of the viewers, and it's hard to argue against this advantage (that and possibly lower distortion at high volumes due to having so much greater cone area).

So for the money, if you want the most output at the lowest frequencies, then the PB13-Ultra may be your best bet. For less money, the FV15HP can just about match the output of two non-colocated VTF-15Hs (and exceed it at most bass frequencies), so I guess this makes it the bargain choice here. And two VTF-15Hs have some important advantages of their own, as described above. Decisions, decisions!

The numbers at data-bass.com demonstrate that the FV15HP will have better output below 30hz than the PB13-Ultra.

Interesting--the "shootout" results I've read about favor the PB13-Ultra more down low (I'll try to find them again). Based on these numbers, however, the FV15HP looks to be the best deal so far. Thanks for pointing this out. cool.gif
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post #21 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 07:34 PM
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I love my FV15HP...I keep it in one port mode for max extension. I watched the new bond flick yesterday... Love that explosion scene.
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post #22 of 30 Old 03-19-2013, 08:28 PM
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IMHO. I liked the SW 110 with the Klip RB 81s. But bass is personal. I also auditioned both the Denon 2313ci and 3313ci with the Klips and was impressed.
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post #23 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 10:57 AM
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Take a look at EMP TEK's line up http://www.emptek.com/products.php I was a little skeptical not being able to audition them but they are truly a great speaker for the price. Plus its free shipping both ways with a 30 day trial period . Everyday I am more and more impressed with these speakers.. just another option to throw in. There are quite a few reviews out there here is on pinning them up against the Klipsch.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/74198-emp-ef30t-vs-klipsch-rf-52-ii-vs-emp-e55ti.html
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post #24 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
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This is generally true, although towers are more likely to have dedicated midrange drivers that can improve sound quality somewhat, as well as additional drivers handling the mid-bass for better dynamics in that range. Whether these improvements are worth the additional cost, which in most cases is rather substantial, is always questionable but may be true for some folks (especially if they have the budget for it) in some situations.

Totally agree. The extra drivers help with dynamics and output. But of course not all towers and bookshelfs are equal. I would take a dual 6.5" towers over a single 6.5" bookshelf any day. I've went from single 5.5" woofer to dual 5.5" woofers to 3 5.5" woofers plus 5.5" midrange and the towers offer much better intergration with the subwoofer, better dynamics and punch over the smaller bookshelf and large MTM monitor.
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post #25 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 12:33 PM
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Totally agree. The extra drivers help with dynamics and output. But of course not all towers and bookshelfs are equal. I would take a dual 6.5" towers over a single 6.5" bookshelf any day.
I would take a dual 6.5 bookshelf over either. The tower would go lower than the bookshelf, but that doesn't matter if you have subs. Assuming both are the same price you would probably be getting better drivers with the bookshelf, and possibly a better crossover as well.

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post #26 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
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Totally agree. The extra drivers help with dynamics and output. But of course not all towers and bookshelfs are equal. I would take a dual 6.5" towers over a single 6.5" bookshelf any day.
I would take a dual 6.5 bookshelf over either. The tower would go lower than the bookshelf, but that doesn't matter if you have subs. Assuming both are the same price you would probably be getting better drivers with the bookshelf, and possibly a better crossover as well.

It really ultimately depends on the specific case, but with the vast majority of cases I've dealt with, I'd have to agree with Bill that you usually get better overall performance for the money with dual 6.5" bookshelf speakers. Fewer drivers and a smaller cabinet make them less capable for full-range use than larger towers, but they don't give up much when used with a subwoofer, and this allows for more to be spent on the quality of the drivers, cabinet, and crossover. My speaker recommendation above reflects this line of thought--only three drivers, a plain but sturdy cabinet, a sophisticated crossover, and as much investment put into the drivers as possible (for a commercial product from a solvent company wink.gif).

That said, much depends on the specific budget, what is available, and whether you have to move down a notch in midrange and treble sound quality in order to get towers. If you do, as is frequently the case, then seriously consider bookshelf speakers (dual-midwoofer if you can) instead, but if it happens that you don't, then maybe towers would be the best option. It depends. wink.gif
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post #27 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 12:57 PM
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Totally agree. The extra drivers help with dynamics and output. But of course not all towers and bookshelfs are equal. I would take a dual 6.5" towers over a single 6.5" bookshelf any day. I've went from single 5.5" woofer to dual 5.5" woofers to 3 5.5" woofers plus 5.5" midrange and the towers offer much better intergration with the subwoofer, better dynamics and punch over the smaller bookshelf and large MTM monitor.

This doesn't make a lot of sense. You could easily make a bookshelf speaker a lot more powerful than a tower speaker. If you want dynamics, you should focus on aspects of speakers aside from its general form as in tower, bookshelf, mini-tower, etc. Numbers of drivers and their cone diameter doesn't really tell you that much alone.
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post #28 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

This doesn't make a lot of sense. You could easily make a bookshelf speaker a lot more powerful than a tower speaker. If you want dynamics, you should focus on aspects of speakers aside from its general form as in tower, bookshelf, mini-tower, etc. Numbers of drivers and their cone diameter doesn't really tell you that much alone.

It does make sense but you decided to ignore part of my quote: But of course not all towers and bookshelfs are equal I realize there more to it than just form factor or number of drivers.

I found the speakers I like, the sonic signiture and over all sound quality. Going up to the largest tower offered alot more benefits from the smaller models than just excessive useless bass output.
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post #29 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

It does make sense but you decided to ignore part of my quote: But of course not all towers and bookshelfs are equal I realize there more to it than just form factor or number of drivers.

I found the speakers I like, the sonic signiture and over all sound quality. Going up to the largest tower offered alot more benefits from the smaller models than just excessive useless bass output.

For multi-channel listening with at least one subwoofer and AC3 (Dolby Digital)? Or, do you use them for strictly 2 channel listening as well?
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post #30 of 30 Old 03-20-2013, 06:50 PM
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Use them in a multi channel surround with dual subwoofers and use them as in 2ch listening as well. But its mostly movies, lots of dynamic impact type content in the 70-150hrz and I think it helps having triple woofers handle that range 80-200hrz with a dedicated midrange driver handling the rest to the tweeter xover. I also have lower distortion. The triple woofers are just lofting around but still having some crazy output. Where as before my dual woofer MTM vertical was reaching their limits and a couple movies seens made them make some strange/scary noises. Both models use the same drivers. I also get much better subwoofer integration.

But if budget is a problem you can have a great system using bookshelfs. I don't disagree with that, but from my own personal experience towers has offered me much more than the useless bass response.
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