New Official Axiom Audio Speaker Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 383 Old 04-14-2014, 04:04 PM
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The QS series is generally thought of as excellent for surround duties due to their fine sound quality & quad-polar sound dispersion; however, they may not be timber matched to the front three.

I don't think that timber matching with the fronts is that big a deal so they might work just fine. Timber matching between the front three that you probably already have is far more important ...

TAM
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post #362 of 383 Old 04-19-2014, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_Wound View Post


Thank you for your reply. I had seen your post but was hoping there was more than just you who believed the 160 to be a good center. This (AVS) is a very large forum. Judging by the surpising small number of posts it seems the Axioms are not a hugely respected brand.

I can't tell from your post at 309 if you think the movies sounded better in your system or not after you put in your 160 over what you had prevous. I'm assuming that since you went to the 160 you were not happy with the center you replaced it with. That's the problem I'm having. But I don't want to buy another Axiom center with just "high hopes". I'd like to know that lots of folks are loving it. I can only find a handful of user reviews but they are the ones that make you wonder if they have a vested interest in the company.


Wind, I don't know if you're still looking, but I have owned both the VP150 and VP160.

 

For background, these are the only centre channel speakers I have owned, although I have listened to a few others in stores and in others' homes. I previously had strictly stereo set ups; the previous speakers were an early pair of Paradigm bookshelves, I don't remember the model but this was in the late 1970s, and then Boston A100s for almost 30 years.

 

I currently have all Axiom v3 speakers - M60s, QS4s at the sides, on-wall M3s at the back, and an SVS PC12 NSD sub. The AVR is a Pioneer VSX 9130TXH. The basement room is 11 X 17 X 8, carpeted and with a drop ceiling with non-reflective tiles.

 

I have no vested interest! When I was putting together the system I listened to a variety of manufacturers, read a lot of reviews and forums. I considered Paradigm again, PSB, Sinclair, Energy, Infinity.. I liked the idea of a Canadian company, and I tend to like things not quite mainstream. 

 

I listened to both the 150 and 160 in a blind test (probably not "double-blind") at the Axiom factory and at that time took home the 150.  In that room I preferred it for multi-channel music. Female voices in particular sounded pleasant - Holly Cole, Jane Monheit. Off axis performance was not great, it sounded more and more recessed as I moved, but that is not a concern for me in my fairly narrow room.

 

I found that at home I don't use the speakers for music as much as I expected - music tends to be late at night and I use headphones. I do watch quite a few movies and the VP150 was underwhelming for powerful soundtracks. After a year I traded in the 150 for a 160. I'm glad I did. The difference was about $250, money well spent. The 160 has much more punch, soundtrack music sounds more full, dialogue in a well mixed soundtrack clear and natural. I find no need to adjust channel levels after using MCACC, but I do set the M60s and 160 to "small".

 

The 160 is BIG! Be sure you have room.

 

With VP150:

 

 

VP160

 

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post #363 of 383 Old 04-21-2014, 09:32 AM
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Yup - moving up from a small CC speaker to one of these beauties that produces better bass extension (& hence fuller sound) is probably one of the best upgrades that one can make to a HT.

My VP160 is a great addition to my room...

TAM
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post #364 of 383 Old 04-21-2014, 10:20 AM
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I've been using the VP150 as my center for the past 5 years. I have no issues with it, provided i'm sitting in the dead center of my HT. If i sit to the sides, the sound is not exactly the same as sitting on the center seat. It's not a huge issue, and i'm pinning this down to the off-axis issue of the center channel.

Has anyone moved from the VP150 to the VP180? Can you comment on what differences you encounter with the upgrade?

I guess i can also move to the VP160 (per Stilljoe above), but i'm thinking if i upgrade, i may as well go all in. cool.gif
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post #365 of 383 Old 04-21-2014, 02:48 PM
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After reading tons of stuff on CC speakers, it seems that the preferred arrangement of the drivers on the front baffle favours the VP160.

Theoretically, this driver placement should provide better off axis response although after some experimentation in my own room, I believe that this condition in most rooms is somewhat overblown...

TAM
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post #366 of 383 Old 04-21-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhits View Post

I've been using the VP150 as my center for the past 5 years. I have no issues with it, provided i'm sitting in the dead center of my HT. If i sit to the sides, the sound is not exactly the same as sitting on the center seat. It's not a huge issue, and i'm pinning this down to the off-axis issue of the center channel. Has anyone moved from the VP150 to the VP180? Can you comment on what differences you encounter with the upgrade?
I guess i can also move to the VP160 (per Stilljoe above), but i'm thinking if i upgrade, i may as well go all in. cool.gif
The VP150 is intrinsically flawed, tweeters should never be split they way they are. What you're hearing from them is the only possible result. The VP180 has the same basic flaw. The VP160 is infinitely better.

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post #367 of 383 Old 04-21-2014, 05:06 PM
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The VP160 to my logical mind is the most ideal , but the physical size is un-wieldy . I have never heard a VP 180 but I suspect given the tweeter locations it may not be as bad as the
VP150. I liked the enclosure of the VP180 and the driver arrangement of the VP160 so I built my own version of the 2 of them and I am glad I did. I am not sure why Axiom chose the design's they did but they are bit odd, at least to my mind.
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post #368 of 383 Old 04-22-2014, 07:09 PM
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Identical across the front works nicely.
Wish I had a bigger room, I'd go bigger all around.
Not having to run my subs all the time is a nice perk.

No regrets
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post #369 of 383 Old 04-23-2014, 07:57 PM
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I can't upgrade my VP100 center because the other options are so freakin' massive .

I have no doubt the VP160 would be an upgrade in over-all sound quality, but at 11.5" height it just wont be do-able. That won't fit in my TV stand unless I put it on the top, and then I'd have to raise my TV to a height that I don't like.

Thought about grabbing a VP150, I've seen them pop up on Kajjiji locally for less than $200 but would it really be an upgrade over my VP100? It's just more woofers and tweeters pushing more air. Spread wider.

What I've learned is to run YPAO and add a decibel and a half to the VP100 and it works well for movies. Blends well with my M60's that way. It's all personal preference.

But I wish Axiom would come out with a refined center channel speaker that can fit in your typical TV stand shelf. Even the VP100 won't fit in the higher shelf of my TV stand so I have to put it on the bottom shelf on the angled side so it's firing at my head.
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post #370 of 383 Old 04-23-2014, 11:56 PM
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I replaced my VP100 with the 160. The 100 worked just fine, but as with your situation, my previous stand required it to be placed on the lowest shelf just off the floor & tilted upwards. This was far from ideal but it did the job admirably despite the poor placement.

After much reading on how significantly more content of movie soundtracks is now being mixed & directed to the CC as contrasted to previously mostly just dialogue, I decided to go with the much bigger & more capable 160 with its far greater bass extension; however, this did require buying a new stand. Now the 160 is at ear level, firing directly at the listening area. Much, much better....

TAM
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post #371 of 383 Old 04-25-2014, 10:13 AM
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The new B Stock store has a "Good- B stock" VP160 for $540.00!

No regrets
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post #372 of 383 Old 04-29-2014, 02:02 PM
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I ordered the new EP500 V4 last week. It's replacing an EP350 V3. I can't wait to hear if there are any noticeable differences. The new EP500 has a smaller footprint cabinet, is now un-ported, and has a redesigned amp.
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post #373 of 383 Old 05-24-2014, 12:55 PM
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I'm considering moving my towers back a foot or more and spinning the audio tower that holds the PJ and other equipment to gain room for 2 seats. Seems risky given the SQ I've achieved.
I have 24" behind the MLP to the Audio tower now, another foot or so and I'd have enough room. I could spin the audio tower too and gain 8 more inches. My center is 24" off the front wall.
My immediate concern's the SQ. The bass is dialed in so nice I don't use my subs that much and I worry about gaining too much boundary reinforcement. It could be a pile of work for little to no gain. If move them back 18" my center would be 6" off the front wall. The opposite it true as well, I may move them back and get room reinforcement that improves the perceived/felt bass.
It would be nice to add two more full size seats, it would bring me up to 4 adult (2 loves big seats, could seat 3 per) and 4 child seats (front row).
In pushing back the screen I'd also gain (potentially) image quality.
It took a while on paper and I'm damn close to being exactly as drawn before the set up. I'd do it again first but what a pile of work just to see/hear IF there's any improvement. I'm not looking for improvement but I don't want to wreck what I have now.

It's a true "Blair" dilemma. I think back to all those times I ruined a good thing only to make it right/better in the end. It may take a while to dial it in again but...

Thoughts?

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post #374 of 383 Old 05-24-2014, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brwsaw View Post

I'm considering moving my towers back a foot or more and spinning the audio tower that holds the PJ and other equipment to gain room for 2 seats. Seems risky given the SQ I've achieved.
I have 24" behind the MLP to the Audio tower now, another foot or so and I'd have enough room. I could spin the audio tower too and gain 8 more inches. My center is 24" off the front wall.
My immediate concern's the SQ. The bass is dialed in so nice I don't use my subs that much and I worry about gaining too much boundary reinforcement. It could be a pile of work for little to no gain. If move them back 18" my center would be 6" off the front wall. The opposite it true as well, I may move them back and get room reinforcement that improves the perceived/felt bass.
It would be nice to add two more full size seats, it would bring me up to 4 adult (2 loves big seats, could seat 3 per) and 4 child seats (front row).
In pushing back the screen I'd also gain (potentially) image quality.
It took a while on paper and I'm damn close to being exactly as drawn before the set up. I'd do it again first but what a pile of work just to see/hear IF there's any improvement. I'm not looking for improvement but I don't want to wreck what I have now.

It's a true "Blair" dilemma. I think back to all those times I ruined a good thing only to make it right/better in the end. It may take a while to dial it in again but...

Thoughts?

Use painters tape on the floor to outline current positions for your towers so if you don't like the way things sound after the move you'll know exactly where to move them back to. I think the rearrange is worth a shot for the extra seating.
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post #375 of 383 Old 05-24-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoudtlr View Post

Use painters tape on the floor to outline current positions for your towers so if you don't like the way things sound after the move you'll know exactly where to move them back to. I think the rearrange is worth a shot for the extra seating.

Tapes still on the floor from the first set up!
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post #376 of 383 Old 05-24-2014, 02:05 PM
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LOL. Use electrical tape this time then.
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post #377 of 383 Old 05-24-2014, 02:14 PM
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maybe blue painters tape...

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post #378 of 383 Old 05-25-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The VP150 is intrinsically flawed, tweeters should never be split they way they are. What you're hearing from them is the only possible result. The VP180 has the same basic flaw. The VP160 is infinitely better.

So I took the plunge and upgraded from my 6 year old VP150 V2 to the VP160 V4. Without any "scientific evidence" but just my ears, i can attest to the fact that the VP160 being a far superior center than the VP150. I've had it for a few weeks now and have watched quite a few blu-rays with it. Other than much better off-axis response, I was surprised how much better this center is in the lower frequency range. Movies are much more satisfying now.

This is a large center though. The height cut into the bottom of my projector screen. I've had to mask off the bottom about an inch or 2 from the projector end. Not a huge deal when most movies are at the 2.35:1 ratio. I'll upgrade my HT pics one these days with the VP160.

Anyways, i'm very satisfied with the upgrade. If you on the fence between the VP160 and VP150 and you mainly watch movies with your speakers, just get the VP160.
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post #379 of 383 Old 05-25-2014, 11:44 PM
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I don't think I can do it

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post #380 of 383 Old 06-03-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The VP150 is intrinsically flawed, tweeters should never be split they way they are. What you're hearing from them is the only possible result. The VP180 has the same basic flaw. The VP160 is infinitely better.

Well in that case I guess my ears are intrinsically flawed because my VP180 sounds incredible. Have had it since it first came out along with my M80s, EP500 sub and QS8 surrounds. In the past few months I upgraded the M80s to M100s. Also upgraded the EP500 to the new "non-ported" version and plan to upgrade the VP180 to the V4 version. One of the reasons I am upgrading is that I want the 10 year warranty on all of my speakers. All speakers are powered via my Denon AVR-4311 which, up to now, has been enough. Hope to get a nice amp (maybe the ADA 1500) for Christmas to power the M100s and the VP180.

I originally upgraded from the VP150 to the VP180 several years ago. It was a HUGE (no pun intended) difference sound-wise and I don't plan on ever going back to a "small" center. I love cranking up my Axiom system when watching movies.

For you guys on the fence - give the 30-day trial a shot. You won't regret it. Judge with your own ears. And by the way, I am not an employee or anything like that. I am quite simply a very satisfied Axiom customer.
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post #381 of 383 Old 06-04-2014, 08:59 AM
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Bill is correct.

Close your eyes and hear the truth!
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post #382 of 383 Old 06-04-2014, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticos View Post

Well in that case I guess my ears are intrinsically flawed because my VP180 sounds incredible.
Did you listen to it and to the 160 in the same room sitting off-axis? All of the centers will be perfectly OK directly in front of them, or slightly to either side, but if you had both the 160 and the others set up for direct comparison the further off to the side you sit the more obvious would be the superiority of the 160, and the shortcomings of the rest.

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post #383 of 383 Old 06-04-2014, 11:03 AM
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BF is correct in stating that most CC designs will work nicely unless well off axis. A while back when many here were lighting their hair on fire over the supposed deficiencies of the MTM or WTW horizontal designs, I unscientifically tested 3 different CC speakers in my room using my ears alone. There were no noticeable deficits in the sound until I was outside of 30 Degrees off axis & even then they were minimal IMO. In my room, nobody sits out that far & if they did, the visual deficiencies of my LCD TV would be far more apparent than any sound anomalies. I suggest that many, if not most, HT setups in the real world are similar where the users are completely happy with what they are hearing.

I upgraded to the larger & more capable VP160 to take advantage of the significantly more dynamic content that is now present in many CC movie soundtrack mixes today as contrasted to mostly dialogue that was common in the past. Even though the VP160 easily digs down to 45 Hz, (my Audyssey hears it at 40 Hz), I cross it over at 60 Hz.

Overall it is superb in this role in my room...

TAM
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