What to do in a really, really large room - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
bgrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I recently moved into a house with a large outbuilding, once a barn. The previous owner used it as a man cave, and I intend to continue that. I've already installed my projector and screen, but I'm at a loss as to what to do about speakers.

The building is 40x24, a hayloft makes the actual viewing area roughly 30x24, with a ceiling that ranges from 15 ft to about 30 ft. Short of getting my hands on some theater grade equipment, I'm not going to be shaking this room. I haven't thought too much about budget, but the building isn't climate controlled at all, I'd hesitate to put in really expensive equipment.

What I'm thinking about doing is a 7.1 system with the listening area surrounded by relatively small bookshelf type speakers and adding a couple of Klipsch RW12D or maybe some homemade subs placed right near the listening area. Is this a reasonable plan? Should i focus on bass or, if is it a loss cause in such a big room?
bgrove is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 03:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
josh6113's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Columbus,Ohio
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
A few pics would help in more people making suggestions.

Doing what I do best...LIVIN!
josh6113 is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
bgrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here's a couple of pics. Excuse the mess.


bgrove is offline  
post #4 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 05:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
g_bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 3,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 61
I don't think small book shelf speakers will cut it in that room. There are a lot of hard surfaces which might cause a lot of reflections. I woul look at Klipsch or other high sensitivity speakers and at least two subs.

g_bartman is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 08:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 10,334
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1717
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrove View Post


What I'm thinking about doing is a 7.1 system with the listening area surrounded by relatively small bookshelf type speakers and adding a couple of Klipsch RW12D or maybe some homemade subs placed right near the listening area. Is this a reasonable plan? Should i focus on bass or, if is it a loss cause in such a big room?
Bookshelves are fine, as their requirements are based on your seating distance from them. But filling that space with bass will take at least two large subs, with at least 15 inch drivers.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 08:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,831
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrove View Post

The building is 40x24, a hayloft makes the actual viewing area roughly 30x24, with a ceiling that ranges from 15 ft to about 30 ft. Short of getting my hands on some theater grade equipment, I'm not going to be shaking this room. I haven't thought too much about budget, but the building isn't climate controlled at all, I'd hesitate to put in really expensive equipment.

Even using 30x24x15 to calculate the entire space you're at almost 11,000 ft^3, which is going to eviscerate bookshelf speakers. You should probably be checking out something like JTR for speakers and subwoofers to fill that man cave (emphasis on cave it seems tongue.gif).

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 10:03 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 8,581
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 813 Post(s)
Liked: 578
What is the listening distance? If you have a close listening distance, then you would be able to use book shelf speakers. Sobs on the other hand are going to have to be large and I would think two at a minimum.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #8 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 12:01 AM
Senior Member
 
flyingvfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I would use these, for rears and surrounds, and use pro audio dj for mains and subs. You can get a 2.1 set up for fairly cheap with 18" sub.. if it to extreme then atleast 8" drivers all around, definitely a 18" passive
sub with amp. Make your hair stand up on back of neck..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fitem.mobileweb.ebay.com%2Fviewitem%3FitemId%3D310380148100&ei=--RPUaOjDMSiiQK3v4HQDQ&usg=AFQjCNEgDO8ZiwLgxHIqIamnBOjxJFyToA
flyingvfreak is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
bgrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I planning to ring the open part of the barn with speakers with the rear surrounds mounted on the edge of the hayloft. I just measured and the hayloft is actually 12' long, so the open area is about 28 x 24. I expect that that the position will be right in the middle of this, about 14' from the wall and the and 10' from the screen, which is mounted 4' from the wall. The center channel speaker will be about 11' up in the air.edge of the loft.

I'm thinking now that I might go with floor standing speakers up front, mostly for music performance.
bgrove is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 06:22 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 8,581
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 813 Post(s)
Liked: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrove View Post

I planning to ring the open part of the barn with speakers with the rear surrounds mounted on the edge of the hayloft. I just measured and the hayloft is actually 12' long, so the open area is about 28 x 24. I expect that that the position will be right in the middle of this, about 14' from the wall and the and 10' from the screen, which is mounted 4' from the wall. The center channel speaker will be about 11' up in the air.edge of the loft.

I'm thinking now that I might go with floor standing speakers up front, mostly for music performance.

Take a look at Klipash RF-7's or RF-82". They have high enough sensitivity and power handling, to work with 10' and longer listening distances. I would not use multiple side surrounds. To do that properly, you need a way to set delay for each pair of side surrounds and an AVR does not have this capability. For subs, I would go with a pair and set then up near field like you were talking about in your first post. If we can help you, give us a call.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #11 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 05:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
Newbie01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: North Wales, PA
Posts: 834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
In a huge room... If you are going for HT ...I would agree and tell you go for the RF-7II. At least dual if not quad subs. (Two Orbit Shifters should work...)
Newbie01 is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 05:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tony123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Upstate, South Carolina
Posts: 4,994
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 25
My system would fill that barn up in a commanding way, up to reference volume. Consider the used market for the large Klipsch horns, Khorns or LaScalas. You can put a front 2 together for less than $2k that way. There are many other options, but few for that kind of budget.

My two DTS10's would shake the place, but any other option with similar output would do too.

My theater and gameroom together are 10,000 cubic feet, so I have a good idea.

What are your expectations?

The "Twinseltown" Theater
Construction Thread
tony123 is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 06:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
This looks very much like my family room (my HT is in the basement), similar dimensions and 25' ceiling at the peak. I've given up on it with regard to substantial bass output. It will be interesting following your progress, I have no idea whether it's even possible to pressurize that type of layout. I do have a pair of bookshelf speakers for music, and agree with others - depending on seating arrangement they will work.

Good luck to you! Interesting project.

Nethawk is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 06:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
Newbie01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: North Wales, PA
Posts: 834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

This looks very much like my family room (my HT is in the basement), similar dimensions and 25' ceiling at the peak. I've given up on it with regard to substantial bass output. It will be interesting following your progress, I have no idea whether it's even possible to pressurize that type of layout. I do have a pair of bookshelf speakers for music, and agree with others - depending on seating arrangement they will work.

Good luck to you! Interesting project.

Two words... Orbit Shifters of course 4x Orbit Shifters are 10k biggrin.gif
Newbie01 is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 06:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,220
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 490 Post(s)
Liked: 654
Depending on how much subwoofer placement flexibility you have, you might not be doomed for good bass. Near-field placement is a good idea here. This is what you take a sub and place it closely to the listening position, like a end table type placement or right behind your seat. This way you get hit with the sound pressure before it dissipates throughout the room. You are still going to want a good sub to do this though, I would want something a bit more powerful than the RW-12d, but the good news is you will only need one sub. You ought to look at the subs from Hsu research, Power Sound Audio, and Outlaw Audio.

As far as speakers go, that depends on how far you are going to sit from them and how loud you want to listen. If you want commercial cinema levels of loudness, you will need some seriously high sensitivity speakers. I would look at Pi speakers, JTR, maybe this Gedlee Nathan or the JBL LSR6332 monitors. Some Klipsch LaScalas would be great too, but they are expensive new, and if you are spending that much, you might as well go for a Seaton Catalyst.
shadyJ is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 07:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,220
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 490 Post(s)
Liked: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Two words... Orbit Shifters of course 4x Orbit Shifters are 10k biggrin.gif
I would be worried about structural damage at that point, seriously. Houses aren't impervious to big sound pressure waves.
shadyJ is offline  
post #17 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 10:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
Newbie01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: North Wales, PA
Posts: 834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I would be worried about structural damage at that point, seriously. Houses aren't impervious to big sound pressure waves.

Lol..I have seen the pictures of the cracked tile. Still...I am sure someone with much more knowledge than I could lay out the system correctly...but all spaces can have bass...its just the cost to do it.

I am sure the 4 OS would give good bass response in that room.
Newbie01 is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 03-25-2013, 11:18 PM
Senior Member
 
flyingvfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Have you thought bout framing,insulate &, sheet rockin the inside, maybe seal off a dedicated portion. Like half or somethin. You got plenty room.It will help the climate inside & provide better sound. Make it more comfortable & inviting..you can make a nice cave in there..
flyingvfreak is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 03-26-2013, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
bgrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

Have you thought bout framing,insulate &, sheet rockin the inside, maybe seal off a dedicated portion. Like half or somethin. You got plenty room.It will help the climate inside & provide better sound. Make it more comfortable & inviting..you can make a nice cave in there..

i planning on sectioning off an area under the hayloft to use as a bar / homebrewing area. That area would be drywalled, insulated, and climate controlled. I've had some thoughts about making that space into a dedicated home theater, maybe getting rid of the current floor and creating step-down tiered seating to increase head room. But that's a different plan, different than what I'm trying to do here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

What are your expectations?

I'm really trying to create a bar rather than an home theater. Most of my projector usage will be for sports, where as long as I can hear it, audio isn't of great importance to me. Still, I want to be able to plop in a blu-ray every once in a while and have a reasonable home theater experience. Good two channel performance for music is also important to me. I don't plan on filling the room with sound. I want to focus my efforts on a seating area. I think I can make this work in an open area through a combination of near field for the low frequency stuff and careful aiming of the speakers to address high frequency.

While I haven't mentioned a budget, I'm looking to do this a cheaply as possible. I'm going to look at the Klipsch rf-7's, though they are more money than I'd like to spend. To compensate, I plan on starting with a 3.1 system. I'm also thinking about building my own subs.
bgrove is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 03-26-2013, 07:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flyng_fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 3,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 157
What about DIY? Three SEOS kits along with 4 of the Karma 8's and two F-20 subs will rock that whole place for less than 2K.

For the three across the front: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/seos-deltalite-kit.html

Surrounds: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/karma-series-kits/karma8-kit.html

F-20's: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1329971/lilmikes-cinema-f-20

Television: Mitsubishi WD65737 DLP
Processor: Emotiva UMC-200
Amps: Carver AV 806x/Behringer EP4000
Mains: DCM TimeFrame 600 Center: AT 453C
Surrounds: AT 251.1 Sub: Danley DTS-10
Blu Ray: Panasonic DMP-BD655
flyng_fool is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 03-26-2013, 11:46 AM
Member
 
swim33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Have you looked into used BIC Acoustic horns? You should be able to get a good deal on those and they are horns so you could get some good output for cheap.

-Ben
swim33 is offline  
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off