Looking for suggestions/advice for new Speakers/Home Theatre System - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 95 Old 03-26-2013, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am in process of doing home theater. The room is 13 by 25 feet. Recently bought Pioneer SC 1522K ( got it for $600.00 at Costco). Almost decided to go with Epson 3020 at Visualplex with the 120'' fixed screen package. I am almost a novice when coming to speakers. I been reading this forum for almost a month now. Gained lot of information/knowledge but still not ready to make any wise decision when coming to speakers. The speakers will used mostly for movies ( 95%).

My budget for speakers is < $1000.00. Willing to do it step wise. Such as do the LCR and Sub now and add on surrounds later. Greatly appreciate all suggestions. Thanks in advance for your time.
newavsmember is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 95 Old 03-26-2013, 04:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
You're making the right decision in doing this step by step. However, at your budget, I suggest maybe getting the front three first and the matching surrounds and sub a bit later. You'll get more speaker for the money that way.

You could go with the Ascend Acoustics CMT-340's. Since you're doing a projection system, I'd probably ask to get three identical, vertical CMT-340 mini-towers rather than their CMT-340 center since this is not a traditional setup with a flat panel screen and A/V cabinet. Identical vertical speakers are ideal, especially with front projection systems. Horizontal "center" speakers are a compromise. At some point you could go with an acoustic screen and stick all three behind it. Just a thought.

The three fronts would be right in your price range.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html

The CBM-170 (that can play a bit lower in the bass frequency range) or somewhat cheaper HTM-200 are normally used for surrounds. Stay with sonically matching, direct radiating speakers with decent bass response since object-oriented audio (coming to home theaters in a couple years) will be more demanding than traditional surround formats.

Try SVS, HSU, Rythmik and the like for subwoofers. I'd go for a 12 to 15 inch sub driver (and possibly add another one soon after due to the room dimensions).

Luckily, your receiver has a full set of pre-amp outputs. I would recommend separate power amplifiers (usually in the 200-300 watts/channel range) at some point in the future. A very solid investment, besides speakers, that could last through multiple theater electronics upgrades. Emotiva, Outlaw Audio, and Parasound are good bang vs. buck companies.

Have you considered your Blu-ray player yet?

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #3 of 95 Old 03-26-2013, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

You could go with the Ascend Acoustics CMT-340's. Since you're doing a projection system, I'd probably ask to get three identical, vertical CMT-340 mini-towers rather than their CMT-340 center since this is not a traditional setup with a flat panel screen and A/V cabinet. Identical vertical speakers are ideal, especially with front projection systems. Horizontal "center" speakers are a compromise. At some point you could go with an acoustic screen and stick all three behind it. Just a thought.

Thanks Dan for taking time and responding. How do you suggest these three verticals be placed like?
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

The CBM-170 (that can play a bit lower in the bass frequency range) or somewhat cheaper HTM-200 are normally used for surrounds. Stay with sonically matching, direct radiating speakers with decent bass response since object-oriented audio (coming to home theaters in a couple years) will be more demanding than traditional surround formats.

I am sorry but I am kind of lost here. Please note I am really newbie and trying to understand as much possible from the various post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Try SVS, HSU, Rythmik and the like for subwoofers. I'd go for a 12 to 15 inch sub driver (and possibly add another one soon after due to the room dimensions).

I have not heard any of these names before, but I will take a look. Any opinion on Klipsch 12D sub woofer? Been seeing a lot of information about that particular sub in the forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Luckily, your receiver has a full set of pre-amp outputs. I would recommend separate power amplifiers (usually in the 200-300 watts/channel range) at some point in the future. A very solid investment, besides speakers, that could last through multiple theater electronics upgrades. Emotiva, Outlaw Audio, and Parasound are good bang vs. buck companies.


Have you considered your Blu-ray player yet?

Might be few years before I get there. Haven't started looking at Blu-ray player. Would love to hear some suggestions.

Thanks again for your time.
newavsmember is offline  
post #4 of 95 Old 03-26-2013, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks Dan for your response. I been looking at the Ascend earlier today based on other recommendation. I couldn't tell/understand what makes them so bette

r ( as many others have been suggesting) when compare to other speakers though. Any information on that will be great which will help me understand why I should buy them.
Quote:
The CBM-170 (that can play a bit lower in the bass frequency range) or somewhat cheaper HTM-200 are normally used for surrounds. Stay with sonically matching, direct radiating speakers with decent bass response since object-oriented audio (coming to home theaters in a couple years) will be more demanding than traditional surround formats.

Sorry to say but I am totally lost here.

I have not decided on Blu ray player yet. Please do let me know if you have any sugsestions.
newavsmember is offline  
post #5 of 95 Old 03-26-2013, 11:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
Robert Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego County, CA, USA
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

Thanks Dan for your response. I been looking at the Ascend earlier today based on other recommendation. I couldn't tell/understand what makes them so bette

r ( as many others have been suggesting) when compare to other speakers though. Any information on that will be great which will help me understand why I should buy them.

Well, speakers are always going to boil down to personal taste and how each of us hear, at the most basic level. With that in mind, what I like about Ascend Acoustics speakers--speaking only for myself of course and not Dan or anybody else--is their focus on getting everything right with regard to accuracy to the source that is possible at their various price points. The lower-end SE series skimps on things like cabinet finish to put as much money into the drivers as possible. The drivers are fully custom, and the crossover circuits are specifically tailored for them at the most detailed level. The attention to detail in the designs of even the SE series is reminiscent of the most "transparent" (sounds like real life rather than speakers, with good recordings) high-end speakers around (including the Ascend Sierra series), and in my opinion, so are the results--the most realistic-sounding and resolving (of detail) speakers in their price range.

Not that there aren't other great speakers, too, even in this price range, but since I have a lot more experience with these, they're easier for me to recommend with confidence, and they're my favorite speaker series anyway (for the money). If there were any serious flaws that bugged me about their sound quality, then I would have noticed by now, having used Ascend SE series speakers in my own home theater virtually every day for the past 6 years or so (and having a fair amount of experience listening to other systems, both less and more expensive, most of which I helped install for others over the years). Their designer did a very thorough job--I've heard better speakers that cost significantly more, but these resemble those in almost every way (within their limits).

Did you notice that I didn't use many "audiophile" terms? I rarely do, so it's not just for your sake. It's because I often have no idea what they really mean, anyway. wink.gif I just know that these speakers sound really good (compared to cheaper ones and most in their price range and many above it, too), and that means they sound like the recording, and if the recording is really good, then the result sounds a lot like real life.
Robert Cook is offline  
post #6 of 95 Old 03-26-2013, 11:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
If you don't go with an acoustically transparent screen and place the speakers behind it (like in a commercial theater, which locks the sound with the action on the screen-- there is more information on that subject in the screen sub forum, even in the DIY screen section), then place the left and right speakers flanking each side of the screen and place the center below it, toed up towards the main listening area. That's the very general, basic locations. As you determine your screen size and seating distances, your speaker positions will fall into place.

As to my mentioning object oriented audio (Google Dolby Atmos and DTS Multi-Dimensional Audio for more), I was mainly bringing up a near-future surround format that is quite a bit more sophisticated than today's 8-channel Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio encoded soundtracks on Blu-ray. Might as well think ahead, so you're making the best choices for speakers now. The sound effects of Atmos and MDA are likely to require more from the surround speakers than ever before. The way these soundtracks are mixed seem to necessitate matching direct radiating speakers all around, so they all should be from the same model line (same tweeters, midrange, and bass drivers). So, I wouldn't go with dipole surround speakers (which make a very diffuse soundfield). The Ascend CBM-170 and HTM-200 bookshelf speakers are matched to the CMT-340's and are direct radiating speakers with mounting attachments. They are (the CBM-170's, especially) already good candidates for object oriented soundtracks besides today's current soundtracks. This is a lot to take in, so if you're still unsure, I can give you some links to take a look at.

The subwoofers I mentioned are internet direct and have a great reputation for price vs. performance ratios. I've heard a lot of good things about the HSU Research VTF-15h in the 15" sub line. I have their somewhat older VTF-3 mk3 and am still impressed with it for the money spent. I'm not as enamored with the Klipsch line of speakers and subs for that reason. You can get a lot more for your money elsewhere.

People usually recommend internet speaker brands like Ascend Acoustics because of bang vs. buck compared to some lower priced boxed store brands. And they have a good reputation. In your price range, they're well worth checking out and taking an in-home test drive. Though, you'd need to contact them directly to get three CMT-340 mid towers since they don't sell them that way in their online shopping cart (just say you need three for an acoustically transparent screen... even if you don't get one right away). They have a deal right now where you can get their sand fillable pedestals for the front left and right at a discount when purchased together with the CMT-340's... if you need them.

As for the Blu-ray player... it really boils down to whether you intend to do movie and TV show streaming as well as high definition disc playback. For heavy streaming, I'd go with the latest Roku box and a cheap Panasonic 220. Just let me know what your thoughts are.

Are you planning on using this space as a totally dedicated theater? Two rows of seating? In a basement? Room height? There are some things to consider, so a little more detail about your plans might be in order. smile.gif

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #7 of 95 Old 03-26-2013, 11:57 PM
Member
 
sven1olaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hey newavsmember.

it sounds like you are getting some good advice. i too am looking at getting into a dedicated HT setup and have been scouring the interwebs, local HT outfits, and basically driving my friends crazy as i attempt overcome the learning curve at the entry point to this new, theatrical world.

in your price range 2 brands that i have stumbled upon are Axiom and Focal. Both of these brands have very good reputations as well as entry level lines. Axiom is out of Canada and is a "direct to customer" mail order company. they offer a 30 day, in home trial (this is very appealing)! Focal is a French brand that built a solid reputation building tweeters and drivers for other respected brands. they recently (4 years ago) began keeping their technology in house and began building their own, amazing loudspeakers.

both of these brands offer LCR setups that allow for an enormous amount of flex when building a starter set.

i am leaning toward getting a Focal Chorus LCR setup, a Sunfire sub, Niles in ceiling surrounds, a Marantz AVR, and an Oppo 103 player. still havent decided whether im going with a 65" panny plasma or a larger projector setup, admittedly i know almost zero about projectors so more learning, interneting, and the like. hopefully soon i will be confident enough to actually make an educated decision.

good luck and please update this thread with your progress.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition mediocre minds..." A. Einstein
sven1olaf is offline  
post #8 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 11:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Focal Chorus speakers are definitely a great option, though a tad spendier than the Ascend's mentioned here (you'd probably want to start with at least the three-way Chorus 726v for the front left/right for your sized room), but I would stay clear of Axiom. They've been having quality control issues and I've stopped recommending them. If you don't have a local Focal speaker dealer, MusicDirect.com sometimes has pretty decent prices on them. I'd go with Focal's Chorus 700 series bookshelf line for surrounds, if possible, as their wall surrounds don't have quite as much bass response. There are side-clamping speaker wall mounts available from various brands that would work with bookshelfs that don't have mounting screws on the back.

The Focal Chorus lineup is more refined for music reproduction than the Ascend CMT-340's. They're in the middle quality bracket between the CMT-340's and Ascend's pricier Sierra speakers.



Sven1olaf,

If you have the room, I'd definitely go with a projector setup. It puts the theater in "home theater." smile.gif

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #9 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

If you don't go with an acoustically transparent screen and place the speakers behind it (like in a commercial theater, which locks the sound with the action on the screen-- there is more information on that subject in the screen sub forum, even in the DIY screen section), then place the left and right speakers flanking each side of the screen and place the center below it, toed up towards the main listening area. That's the very general, basic locations. As you determine your screen size and seating distances, your speaker positions will fall into place.

Thanks again for detail reply. I would love to go with acoustically transparent screen but I don't think that's something I could spend money on right now in addition to he labor charges I have to pay for the work to be done. If I were to place the center below the screen wouldn't I be better of with center rather than laying the SE Main horizontally? Since its 25 Feet long room, I am open to suggestions. Still doing research on that too. The ceiling is at 8 feet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post


As for the Blu-ray player... it really boils down to whether you intend to do movie and TV show streaming as well as high definition disc playback. For heavy streaming, I'd go with the latest Roku box and a cheap Panasonic 220. Just let me know what your thoughts are.

Are you planning on using this space as a totally dedicated theater? Two rows of seating? In a basement? Room height? There are some things to consider, so a little more detail about your plans might be in order. smile.gif

The movies mostly would be streaming than disc playback. I have roku but need to be upgraded to the new one. Cheap Panasonic 220 sounds like something will work out better for my viewing right now.

This room will be dedicated theater on second floor next to guest bedroom. Two rows of seating is in plans for future.
newavsmember is offline  
post #10 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post



Did you notice that I didn't use many "audiophile" terms? I rarely do, so it's not just for your sake. It's because I often have no idea what they really mean, anyway. wink.gif I just know that these speakers sound really good (compared to cheaper ones and most in their price range and many above it, too), and that means they sound like the recording, and if the recording is really good, then the result sounds a lot like real life.

Thank you Robert. I was hoping you would pitch in. I was reading your post and did find them very easy to understand. Really appreciate your details about the speakers. I love knowing more about things before buying. This forum, you and Dan are helping quite a bit in that.


If I were to decide on the Ascend (wither three SE 340 mains or SE 340 Main pair and SE 340 Center), that itself will be costing me more than $1000.00 without option of Sub. Are these speakers good to be effective without Sub? I am almost convinced, now need to work on getting this approved too smile.gif
newavsmember is offline  
post #11 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
weekendtoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Maybe skip the sub for now too and go with a pair of Definitive Techonologys bp7006 speakers or a nice used paid of NHT 3.3's or some such.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

weekendtoy is offline  
post #12 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 02:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

Thank you Robert. I was hoping you would pitch in. I was reading your post and did find them very easy to understand. Really appreciate your details about the speakers. I love knowing more about things before buying. This forum, you and Dan are helping quite a bit in that.


If I were to decide on the Ascend (wither three SE 340 mains or SE 340 Main pair and SE 340 Center), that itself will be costing me more than $1000.00 without option of Sub. Are these speakers good to be effective without Sub? I am almost convinced, now need to work on getting this approved too smile.gif

You would need a sub, but not absolutely right away. With the fillable stands, the 340's put out fairly decent bass for their size. It's the lower octaves and room shaking bass for movie soundtracks you'll be missing for the time being.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #13 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 06:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
Robert Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego County, CA, USA
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

If I were to decide on the Ascend (wither three SE 340 mains or SE 340 Main pair and SE 340 Center), that itself will be costing me more than $1000.00 without option of Sub. Are these speakers good to be effective without Sub?

What Dan said. smile.gif The CMT-340 SE could be considered a small tower speaker, which is why it's called Compact Mini-Tower (CMT), and generally speaking towers on their own can provide bass that is deep and loud enough for the vast majority of music listening at normal loudness. For movies with LFE (Low-Frequency Effects or deep, loud sub-bass), however, even larger towers--unless they include powered subwoofers, or multiple large woofers and are driven by powerful amplifiers--cannot deliver the full impact. The CMT-340 SE should satisfy to some degree on its own, and could tide you over for a while, but to be honest you'll still really want a subwoofer eventually.
Robert Cook is offline  
post #14 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 06:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

Thank you Robert. I was hoping you would pitch in. I was reading your post and did find them very easy to understand. Really appreciate your details about the speakers. I love knowing more about things before buying. This forum, you and Dan are helping quite a bit in that.


If I were to decide on the Ascend (wither three SE 340 mains or SE 340 Main pair and SE 340 Center), that itself will be costing me more than $1000.00 without option of Sub. Are these speakers good to be effective without Sub? I am almost convinced, now need to work on getting this approved too smile.gif

Your other option would be to get a pair of the CBM-170 SE and CMT-340 center and a sub right now. Then later on get a pair of the CMT-340 SEs for the front and move the CBM-170 SE to the rear. You might even decide that you are happy with the CBM-170s for the front left/right and then just order another pair. I own the 170s, and they are very good speakers.

To work within your budget with this in mind, the Klipsch Reference RW-12d could be a good sub choice. Often goes on sale for $299 at Newegg (subscribe to their mailing list for promo codes). Here's a thread discussing it: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442829/klipsch-rw-12d-on-sale-for-299-at-newegg-com-again-today

So it depends. Do you want to start with surround all the way around? Or do you want to start with the front soundstage only and have a sub to fill in the lower bass for movies?

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #15 of 95 Old 03-27-2013, 08:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Robert Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego County, CA, USA
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Your other option would be to get a pair of the CBM-170 SE and CMT-340 center and a sub right now. Then later on get a pair of the CMT-340 SEs for the front and move the CBM-170 SE to the rear. You might even decide that you are happy with the CBM-170s for the front left/right and then just order another pair. I own the 170s, and they are very good speakers.

This seems like a good idea, as I happen to use three CBM-170 SEs for my own LCR in a large room (limited by various circumstances and getting "approval"), no less, and I've been very satisfied with their performance--they can hold their composure under quite a load, actually (not all similar bookshelf speakers can, which is something that one learns from experience rather than specs alone). However, a potential issue is that if the OP decides to move them to surround duty later on, then they'd make for rather bulky surrounds--really fantastic surrounds for action movies, I might add, as I use an additional pair for my surrounds, but definitely on the large side. Additionally, if the stands that will likely be needed at the front would be used for the surrounds, then OK, but if the surrounds are to be mounted on the wall, then there will be a couple of spare stands left.
Robert Cook is offline  
post #16 of 95 Old 03-28-2013, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

This seems like a good idea, as I happen to use three CBM-170 SEs for my own LCR in a large room (limited by various circumstances and getting "approval"), no less, and I've been very satisfied with their performance--they can hold their composure under quite a load, actually (not all similar bookshelf speakers can, which is something that one learns from experience rather than specs alone). However, a potential issue is that if the OP decides to move them to surround duty later on, then they'd make for rather bulky surrounds--really fantastic surrounds for action movies, I might add, as I use an additional pair for my surrounds, but definitely on the large side. Additionally, if the stands that will likely be needed at the front would be used for the surrounds, then OK, but if the surrounds are to be mounted on the wall, then there will be a couple of spare stands left.

Thanks Cel. I kind of like this idea too. Robert, I thought CBM-170 SE are for surrounds in the first place. Isn't that true?
newavsmember is offline  
post #17 of 95 Old 03-28-2013, 06:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
The 170s can be used for the front or for surrounds. If you need to wall mount your surrounds, the HTM-200 SEs are a little bit easier to work with for that.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #18 of 95 Old 03-28-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


So it depends. Do you want to start with surround all the way around? Or do you want to start with the front soundstage only and have a sub to fill in the lower bass for movies?

Ideally, I would like the whole surround at same time as I need to have electrician/handy-man come over to have the power plug install for the Projector. But I could have all the surround setup done and have the speakers installed after saving up some cash.

So far the two options I have is

Option 1)

Ascend CMT 340 SE mains pairfor fronts and 1 CMT SE Center or 3 CMT SE 340 Mains for LCR and with Sub/surround to be purchased later on. This option I might miss out some bass.

Option 2)
CMT SE Center , Pair of CMT 170 SE Main and Klipsch Reference RW-12d. With this option, the CMT 170 SE Main pair can be used for surround later on adding CMT 340 SE for fronts.


As of now, I like the option 2 which gives me Woofer as well as the front which are good for large rooms.

Please do let me know if you can think of any other options I can look before making that purchase.
newavsmember is offline  
post #19 of 95 Old 03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
I like the idea of option 1 because there are better subs out there than that Klipsch, if you just save up (and you can temporarily wire your other speakers up as surrounds). I like the idea of three regular 340's because you can always temporarily flip it on its side for the time being (if you don't have enough space under your screen to stand it up, for some reason) and you're ready for the big time if you ever add a transparent screen... just flip it back to its regular vertical position. The 340 center is not wired for use as a regular vertical speaker and you're then stuck with having to buy another regular 340 speaker later.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #20 of 95 Old 03-28-2013, 05:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
Robert Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego County, CA, USA
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

Thanks Cel. I kind of like this idea too. Robert, I thought CBM-170 SE are for surrounds in the first place. Isn't that true?

Historically, the original CBM-170 was designed as a monitor intended for use with a subwoofer, as well as for general music reproduction and home theater use, like most every bookshelf speaker. When it was Ascend's only speaker model, it was used in every role, the way that I happen to be using it myself (although I have early SEs). It was the HTM-200 that was originally designed for use as a surround, specifically a wall-mounted surround, but then again it was also intended for general home theater use (in smaller rooms) and any other use that we can come up with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I like the idea of option 1 because there are better subs out there than that Klipsch, if you just save up (and you can temporarily wire your other speakers up as surrounds).

Yep, that was another reason I didn't mention the other option originally--I wasn't sure whether enough of the budget would be left to buy enough of a subwoofer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I like the idea of three regular 340's because you can always temporarily flip it on its side for the time being (if you don't have enough space under your screen to stand it up, for some reason) and you're ready for the big time if you ever add a transparent screen... just flip it back to its regular vertical position. The 340 center is not wired for use as a regular vertical speaker and you're then stuck with having to buy another regular 340 speaker later.

Actually, there are only two physical differences between a 340 main and a 340 center: the position of a switch on the crossover circuit board, and the placement of the logo on the grille. I guess the grille wouldn't matter if you aren't going to use it, and even if you are for now, then you won't if/when you upgrade to an acoustically-transparent screen. As for the crossover, the "EXBAC" circuitry can be deactivated by flipping the internal switch, converting your 340 center into a 340 main:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4806-Turning-off-EXBAC-on-340SE-center
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4836-340SE-center&p=38862#post38862
Robert Cook is offline  
post #21 of 95 Old 03-28-2013, 05:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

Historically, the original CBM-170 was designed as a monitor intended for use with a subwoofer, as well as for general music reproduction and home theater use, like most every bookshelf speaker. When it was Ascend's only speaker model, it was used in every role, the way that I happen to be using it myself (although I have early SEs). It was the HTM-200 that was originally designed for use as a surround, specifically a wall-mounted surround, but then again it was also intended for general home theater use (in smaller rooms) and any other use that we can come up with.
Yep, that was another reason I didn't mention the other option originally--I wasn't sure whether enough of the budget would be left to buy enough of a subwoofer.
Actually, there are only two physical differences between a 340 main and a 340 center: the position of a switch on the crossover circuit board, and the placement of the logo on the grille. I guess the grille wouldn't matter if you aren't going to use it, and even if you are for now, then you won't if/when you upgrade to an acoustically-transparent screen. As for the crossover, the "EXBAC" circuitry can be turned off by flipping the switch, converting the 340 center into a 340 main:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4836-340SE-center&p=38862#post38862

Did not know that about the 340 center. I guess it depends on whether or not the OP would want to go through the extra trouble of dismantling the speaker in order to apply said change (Ascend doesn't recommend that being done by the user). He might not even have to lay the regular 340 used as the center speaker temporarily on its side, so it could be a moot point anyway.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #22 of 95 Old 03-28-2013, 05:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Robert Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego County, CA, USA
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Did not know that about the 340 center. I guess it depends on whether or not the OP would want to go through the extra trouble of dismantling the speaker in order to apply said change

That is definitely a consideration.

By the way, I edited my post to include an additional link to a thread that contains a photo of the 340SE's PCB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

(Ascend doesn't recommend that being done by the user).

SSSHHH--don't tell! wink.gif Of course they wouldn't recommend it, but maybe after the warranty has expired anyway, the OP would be willing to take his chances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

He might not even have to lay the regular 340 used as the center speaker temporarily on its side, so it could be a moot point anyway.

Right. It probably would be best to order a 340SE main and use it as a horizontally-oriented center for a while if necessary. Any baffle step compensation that is done by the EXBAC circuit should be handled fine by MCACC equalization anyway, although it should also be noted that EXBAC does another thing or two (such as changing the midwoofer-tweeter crossover frequency) to optimize the speaker's performance as a horizontally-oriented center (otherwise I suspect that the midrange would drop out more for off-axis viewers, which may or may not be an issue in this case).

newavsmember, how far will you be sitting from the center speaker, and how wide will your seating area be?
Robert Cook is offline  
post #23 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thank you both again. As of now, I don't think I am at a stage to make any changes. But probably if I lurk long enough, I might be able to do that biggrin.gif. Current plan is sitting about 16 to 20 feet away and the seating will be mostly for 4 members.


I have been reading about KEF Q300/200's, and HSU Hybrid 3.1package, how do they compare to CMT 340's?
newavsmember is offline  
post #24 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 08:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Never heard the KEF Q's (the Q600 has received great reviews), but the HSU's are no slouches for budget horn monitors. You should probably compare them a bit more to the Ascend 170 bookshelfs. The HSU's are designed to play a little louder with more efficiency in a medium to medium-large room, and probably a bit more tuned for dynamic movie reproduction and not quite as musical. They really do need a subwoofer due to their bookshelf design. A lot less harsh than Klipsch horns at higher volumes because they're horn loaded, soft-dome tweeters. The HB-1 MK2's are about 5" shorter than the 340's, so easier to place a third HB-1 under a non-acoustic screen (so you don't need the "center" designed HC-1), if that makes any difference to you.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #25 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 10:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
Robert Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego County, CA, USA
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

As of now, I don't think I am at a stage to make any changes.

Do you mean modifications to the center speaker or changes to your system configuration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

Current plan is sitting about 16 to 20 feet away and the seating will be mostly for 4 members.

So depending on how far apart the viewers are spaced, the maximum off-axis angle (horizontal) will be about 10-12 degrees at 16 feet away, and less at 20 feet away. I think that using a 340SE main oriented horizontally should be fine for the time being, if you plan to upgrade to an acoustically-transparent screen in the foreseeable future. If not, then there will be an advantage in using a 340SE center, so you should go with that. So what are your plans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

I have been reading about KEF Q300/200's, and HSU Hybrid 3.1package, how do they compare to CMT 340's?

In my opinion, the KEF Q series is basically in the same league as the Ascend SE series, although the Q300 has lower efficiency and will have higher distortion than the 340SE (it's more comparable to the 170SE, although the 170SE probably has it beat in these areas, too). The HSU speakers are good for the price and have nice bass and dynamics for their size, but are a small step below in terms of sound quality in comparison to the 170SE, and more so in every way in comparison to the 340SE.

The one advantage that the KEFs would have (aside from looks) is that the center speaker, due to using a coaxial midrange-tweeter, does not have horizontal dispersion issues (well, the 3-way centers do, but lower in frequency, which impacts dialogue intelligibility less), but then again you'd give up some sound quality and dynamics, in my opinion, and the issues even with using a 340SE main as a horizontally-oriented center will be very minor with your home theater configuration (and such issues, including looks wink.gif, would go away when using an acoustically-transparent screen).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

the HSU's are no slouches for budget horn monitors. You should probably compare them a bit more to the Ascend 170 bookshelfs. The HSU's are designed to play a little louder with more efficiency in a medium to medium-large room, and probably a bit more tuned for dynamic movie reproduction and not quite as musical.

The HSUs' sensitivity is rated at 92 dB in their specs, but this is in half-space, which gives it +3 dB (and maybe even more at bass and mid-bass frequencies) over the anechoic measurements in the Ascends' specs. This makes them comparable to the 170SE in this respect, with the 340SE being slightly more efficient than the rest. In practice, they're all pretty dynamic speakers, the 340SE most of all with its twin midwoofers--you'd need to use three HC-1s across the front to match it, but then the 340SE will sound noticeably better, in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

They really do need a subwoofer due to their bookshelf design. A lot less harsh than Klipsch horns at higher volumes because they're horn loaded, soft-dome tweeters.

As far as I know, the HSUs have tweeters with horns serving as waveguides, while the Klisches have true compression drivers that happen to not sound very good to me, in addition to seeming to play louder than the other drivers at home theater volumes, due to their much greater sensitivity (the speakers don't measure that badly with 2.83V test signals, but dynamic content can get noticeably shrill).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

The HB-1 MK2's are about 5" shorter than the 340's, so easier to place a third HB-1 under a non-acoustic screen (so you don't need the "center" designed HC-1), if that makes any difference to you.

You could do the same thing with the 170SE, though, and it's even shorter at 12 inches. It's not quite as good a speaker as the 340SE, but it can handle your home theater configuration at normal home theater volumes (i.e. much louder than ordinary TV viewing but not reference-level commercial movie theater volume).
Robert Cook is offline  
post #26 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newavsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

Do you mean modifications to the center speaker or changes to your system configuration?

I meant to center speaker but probably I will need some help with configuration too. Currently I have NO speaker system at home. Had i not come across this forum, i mostly would have gone with something like this http://www.frys.com/product/7038681?site=sa:adpages%20page:P18_FRI%20date:032913 smile.gif

But so glad to be on here and get to learn about the real speakers.

Thank you both for awesome discussion and additional information in every post.
newavsmember is offline  
post #27 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 11:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elihawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 219
Funny thing about tha LG system is that the tall fronts, about 30" high, have like 3 inch drivers! They literally could have fit the driver in a Bose cube!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
Elihawk is online now  
post #28 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bladerunner6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by newavsmember View Post

I am in process of doing home theater. The room is 13 by 25 feet. Recently bought Pioneer SC 1522K ( got it for $600.00 at Costco). Almost decided to go with Epson 3020 at Visualplex with the 120'' fixed screen package. I am almost a novice when coming to speakers. I been reading this forum for almost a month now. Gained lot of information/knowledge but still not ready to make any wise decision when coming to speakers. The speakers will used mostly for movies ( 95%).

My budget for speakers is < $1000.00. Willing to do it step wise. Such as do the LCR and Sub now and add on surrounds later. Greatly appreciate all suggestions. Thanks in advance for your time.

I love Costco's incredible return policy, so I would return the receiver for a refund and get a less expensive receiver and put more money into what you will actually hear: speakers and a sub.
bladerunner6 is offline  
post #29 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 04:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,273
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner6 View Post

I love Costco's incredible return policy, so I would return the receiver for a refund and get a less expensive receiver and put more money into what you will actually hear: speakers and a sub.

I would not return the receiver, he got an incredible deal there. Supposedly, it's the same receiver as one of the mid line Pioneer Elite receivers, without the Elite badge and gold plated jacks. The guts are the same.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #30 of 95 Old 03-29-2013, 05:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I would not return the receiver, he got an incredible deal there. Supposedly, it's the same receiver as one of the mid line Pioneer Elite receivers, without the Elite badge and gold plated jacks. The guts are the same.

Agreed. He's already thinking about buying part of his setup now, and part later. So return the receiver and then spend $350 to $400 on much lower model instead? Not that much of a reallocation that would make a significant difference. This setup will sound great with what he's currently planning smile.gif

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off