Definitive UIW RCS III placement as surrounds? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone.

I've got an older speaker setup in my "not ideal for listening" family room consisting of Boston Reference fronts and center and a pair of pretty cheap Cambridge 62 in-ceiling rears. I also have an Epik Empire subwoofer and the sound is fed by an Onkyo 818 AVR with XT32.

The Cambridge speakers don't sound terrible, but the sound field is not very good and since they are not sealed enclosure speakers I do get some rattling out of them.

I've been doing a lot of research and I believe that the Definitive UIW RCS III would be the best in-ceiling replacement available right now. My question is, how would I orient them if they are 9 feet above and slightly to the rear of my listening position? Also, has anyone installed them and if so how difficult is the install? I can see that they require bracing that may or may not exist in my current mounting locations and am wondering if there are any major gotchas.

Thanks
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post #2 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 12:46 PM
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Have you considered the RSS speakers versus RCS? As for mounting, yes they do recommend bracing them which means you may have to cut out some drywall on your ceiling and then patch to add additional bracing to the speakers.
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post #3 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 02:07 PM
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I hope Triad Dude doesn't mind me posting his response to a similar question relating to rear surrounds (7.1) I had within the Triad product line, so here goes nothing...

"I try to avoid LCRs for surrounds because of their limited dispersion pattern and high directivity. If the seating is close to the rear speakers, dipole surrounds will work best; if they're away from the seating, InCeiling Gold/6 Sats would be a great choice at a good price."

The RCS are essentially the LCRs of the Definitive inCeiling line, and the RSS are bipoles. Not sure what the definitive equivalent is of the triad satellites... I think they are monopole designs with wider dispersion than the LCRs... they need a bit of distance to work well as rear surrounds. The debate is pretty fierce with regards to which design works best for surrounds (monopole, bipole, dipole, etc.)... which is why there is a sticky for those that wish to do so (debate).

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #4 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah, I see, perhaps the RSS makes more sense then for rears. The current speaker mounting locations are about 18 inches to the rear of the listening position, and the ceiling is 9 feet high.

I believe that when I checked the mounting template for the RCS was smaller than the already existing holes for my current speaker which meant that some patching on the ceiling would be required and I had been trying to avoid that.

Do the RSS also require bracing with wood studs on either side of the speaker, same as the RCS?

My primary reason for looking at Definitive was that they were a sealed design and that they were bipole/dipole speakers....
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post #5 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Ah, I see, perhaps the RSS makes more sense then for rears. The current speaker mounting locations are about 18 inches to the rear of the listening position, and the ceiling is 9 feet high.

I believe that when I checked the mounting template for the RCS was smaller than the already existing holes for my current speaker which meant that some patching on the ceiling would be required and I had been trying to avoid that.

Do the RSS also require bracing with wood studs on either side of the speaker, same as the RCS?

My primary reason for looking at Definitive was that they were a sealed design and that they were bipole/dipole speakers....

Yes, the RSS speakers do require bracing per the manufacturer. I own the RSS III's and have been very happy with them as surround speakers. I think if you cut the hole for them and then try to get some wood blocking in there with a small screw gun you would be good to go. My basement was unfinished so I had the luxury of having access before drywall went in.
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post #6 of 12 Old 04-05-2013, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Yes, the RSS speakers do require bracing per the manufacturer. I own the RSS III's and have been very happy with them as surround speakers. I think if you cut the hole for them and then try to get some wood blocking in there with a small screw gun you would be good to go. My basement was unfinished so I had the luxury of having access before drywall went in.

I guess I will have to consider doing a "dry run" in which I simulate putting the wood spacers in before doing the actual install. My wife is pretty good at patching small areas of drywall and has agreed to take on that part of things.

Anything I should look at over the RSS III? Seems like with eBay prices it is fairly reasonable for what it is.

Also... should I orient them front/back firing or side/side firing? The manual seems to indicate that if directly below the speakers orient them for side/side but my placement is slightly behind the listening area.
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post #7 of 12 Old 04-05-2013, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's the location of the current ones for relevant discussion.

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post #8 of 12 Old 04-05-2013, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I guess I will have to consider doing a "dry run" in which I simulate putting the wood spacers in before doing the actual install. My wife is pretty good at patching small areas of drywall and has agreed to take on that part of things.

Anything I should look at over the RSS III? Seems like with eBay prices it is fairly reasonable for what it is.

Also... should I orient them front/back firing or side/side firing? The manual seems to indicate that if directly below the speakers orient them for side/side but my placement is slightly behind the listening area.

I am slightly behind mine and I have them side firing (I debated front versus side like you) but determined I could always move my couch back an inch or two. Side firing sounds great to me, and with reflection points, the surround sound is easily heard at the seating position. I think you could go either way, and perhaps go with what is easiest to integrate.
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post #9 of 12 Old 04-08-2013, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I took some pictures but it looks like side firing will be much easier of an install than front/rear firing. The first picture shows you what the holes for the current speakers look like. they measure about 11" X 8". Depending on how big the bezels are on the RSS III it is possible I won't even have to patch.... if the bezels were bigger than 1/2" for example then I probably could skate by or even just throw a bead of caulk on them and be good. The floor joists are about 2.5 inches away from the hole on either side, it's pretty much right in the middle.

The only weird thing is that metal bracket. It must be a code thing. I will just hopefully leave it alone. I can definitely reach in enough to shim a couple of 2x4s in there as braces for the speakers and won't even necessarily need the ears extended to hold them in place. 2nd photo shows that the layout is the same to the other speaker (between same joists so should be pretty straight forward).

Do the wood screws just go in from the side of the speaker itself (near the drivers or cabinet)?



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post #10 of 12 Old 04-21-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to provide a final follow-up to my installation concerns.

Installation was not too difficult. I was fortunate in that there was just enough drywall overhang remaining (even with the larger than needed opening) that I could tighten down two of the feet on the speaker to stabilize it and then drive the screws into the framing bits that I had mounted in the floor joists. My wife is patching the gaps (there's still about a .5" gap outside of the bezel on the two ends) with some crack shot spackle and it looks like once it's sanded and painted it won't even be noticeable.

From a sound quality perspective, the difference is rather remarkable, the bi-polar speakers fill the large space much more effectively than the old Cambridge speakers with their wimpy directional tweeters.

I do have a final question if anyone can answer. I wanted to re-check a screw placement on one of the speakers but not sure of a safe way to remove the grills without damaging them. The grills have really tiny little holes and I can't even get a paper clip through them to start to slowly tug the grill out of position.
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post #11 of 12 Old 04-21-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Just wanted to provide a final follow-up to my installation concerns.

Installation was not too difficult. I was fortunate in that there was just enough drywall overhang remaining (even with the larger than needed opening) that I could tighten down two of the feet on the speaker to stabilize it and then drive the screws into the framing bits that I had mounted in the floor joists. My wife is patching the gaps (there's still about a .5" gap outside of the bezel on the two ends) with some crack shot spackle and it looks like once it's sanded and painted it won't even be noticeable.

From a sound quality perspective, the difference is rather remarkable, the bi-polar speakers fill the large space much more effectively than the old Cambridge speakers with their wimpy directional tweeters.

I do have a final question if anyone can answer. I wanted to re-check a screw placement on one of the speakers but not sure of a safe way to remove the grills without damaging them. The grills have really tiny little holes and I can't even get a paper clip through them to start to slowly tug the grill out of position.

Very nice, I am glad you like them. I really like mine as well, and it is pretty surprising how much sound can come out of these bad boys in a large room.

Check your packaging, I know my speakers came with a little hook/tool to pull the grill off. I want to say mine was really buried in the packaging and hard to find (perhaps taped to styrofoam) otherwise I have had luck in the past with other speakers using a really starp knife and gently trying to pry the grill off around the edges. Not sure if that will work for you or not...


Now you just need the RLS III or II speakers for mains smile.gif
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post #12 of 12 Old 04-21-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Very nice, I am glad you like them. I really like mine as well, and it is pretty surprising how much sound can come out of these bad boys in a large room.

Check your packaging, I know my speakers came with a little hook/tool to pull the grill off. I want to say mine was really buried in the packaging and hard to find (perhaps taped to styrofoam) otherwise I have had luck in the past with other speakers using a really starp knife and gently trying to pry the grill off around the edges. Not sure if that will work for you or not...


Now you just need the RLS III or II speakers for mains smile.gif

Fortunately I don't need to go with in wall for mains as I have enough space for floorstanding speakers in my setup and my wife is not opposed to having slim towers there. Once we have kids I will probably have to anchor one of the mains so that it can't be knocked over, but that's a little ways down the road.

I will re-check the packaging for the pry tool you mention, I did not see it at all when getting the two speakers out of the box.
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