Three Identical Front Speakers - Page 3 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Do you have three identical speakers in the front
YES 42 50.60%
NO 41 49.40%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 84 Old 04-14-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Why is the horizontal dispersion skewed to the left in the left diagram and to the right in the right diagram.
The picture was made of a 3d model. The 'skewing' is perspective.

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post #62 of 84 Old 04-14-2013, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The picture was made of a 3d model. The 'skewing' is perspective.
Yeah. I know this subject and what the diagrams would/should show. But I can imagine those confusing a novice.

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post #63 of 84 Old 04-15-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

OK...Maybe not PURE marketing. I suppose they do fulfill a need for those that are space challenged. However, their design is a compromise. Will the average person tell a difference? Probably not.

However, that being said, most people now believe that the horizontal center channel design is the ideal and best choice. This is a result of marketing.

I think you're still missing the mark. I have yet to see any manufacturer - whether mainstream or internet direct - market any of their center channel speakers of any design as being either ideal or best, only complementary. As Roger and others have stated, unique horizontal layout is the result of a need (either real or perceived) in the average home. Center channel speakers don't sell a front stage, it's the other way around.

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post #64 of 84 Old 05-01-2013, 03:24 AM
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For those of you with 3 identical LCR, if anyone has floorstanders behind an AT screen, have you elevated them within the screen?
Did you angle them down?
If so how did you do this?
If not did you find having the tweeter above your ear level a compromise worth taking?
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post #65 of 84 Old 05-01-2013, 03:39 AM
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I'n using 3 Thiel MCS1, all vertical and behind an AT screen. Better than using my Thiel CS2.4's as L/R with a MCS1 mounted horizontal. Having 3 identical speakers does make a difference, especially behind an AT.

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post #66 of 84 Old 05-01-2013, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewa View Post

For those of you with 3 identical LCR, if anyone has floorstanders behind an AT screen, have you elevated them within the screen?
Did you angle them down?
If so how did you do this?
If not did you find having the tweeter above your ear level a compromise worth taking?

I angled mine down at the listeners ears.

On axis is on axis dont matter if its above ear level or not.
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post #67 of 84 Old 05-01-2013, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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The attraction of three identical speakers is to have a great uniform sound track :)

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post #68 of 84 Old 05-01-2013, 10:04 PM
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I'm currently using CM5s for LCR in my bedroom. Sounds great. wink.gif

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post #69 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 03:56 PM
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So my AV guy is recommending three matching front speakers. I had never heard of the idea, but it sounded plausible. We want to BB to take a look at the new crop of HDTV's and we had one of the managers all to ourselves. So we asked all the questions we had - TV's, Blu-ray, projectors, screens, receivers... including the idea of matching front channels. He said definitely No with some of his logic and that is why they sell specific LCR speakers.

I found this thread when I started to research who was correct. Needless to say that the BB manager has not been enlightened to all the benefits of such a matching system. I am sold!

No comes my situation... The BB proposal for our HT included Martin Logan front channel speakers - Motion 8 and Motion 4's. My AV guy's proposal included matching Proficient 404 (EDIT: CC 400) front channel speakers. He said he liked the Proficient over ML because ML used paper speakers. (Edit: Proficient uses Poly)

I can find very limited info on Proficient speakers and no highly favorable review that would lean me that direction. I can find plenty of support for the Motion 8's. Another AV guy informed me that the Proficient speakers are the contractor grade of speakers and that Martin Logan are the better choice.

No comes my question... Our Family Room is only about 16'x16' and we are not looking to rattle the windows and annoy the neighbors. And, our new entertainment center we are having build does not have space for anything larger than this style of speaker. What is the better speaker to select - three matching Proficient 404, or MartinLogan Motion 8's. (We know the cost differences and are willing to go up if needed.)
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post #70 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

So my AV guy is recommending three matching front speakers. I had never heard of the idea, but it sounded plausible. We wnt to BB to take a look at the new crop of HDTV's and we had one of the managers all to ourselves. So we asked all the questions we had - TV's, Blu-ray, projectors, screens, receivers... including the idea of matching front channels. He said definietly No with some of his logic and that is why they sell specific LCR speakers. I found this thread when I started to research who was correct.

Needless to say that the BB manager has not been enlightened to all the benefits of such a matching system. I am sold! No comes my situation... The BB proposaal for our HT included Martin Logan front channle speakers - Motion 8 and Motion 4's. My AV guy's proposal included matching Proficient 404 front channel speakers. He said he liked the Proficient over ML because ML used paper speakers.

I can find very limited info on Proficient speakers and no highly favorable review that would lean me that direction. I can find plenty of support for the Motion 8's. Another AV guy informed me that the Proficient speakers are the contractor grade of speakers and that Martin Logan are the better choice. No comes my question... Our Family Room is only about 16'x16' and we are not looking to rattle the windows and annoy the neighbors. And, our new entertainment center we are having build does not have space for anything larger than this style of speaker. What is the better speaker to select - three matching Proficient 404, or MartinLogan Motion 8's. (We know the cost differences and are willing to go up if needed.)

An other lie! Proficient is made by SPEAKERCRAFT Very high margins for Best Buy! Listen to both speakers rather than taking the BB recommendation, see what sounds best to you forget BB!
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post #71 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post


An other lie! Proficient is made by SPEAKERCRAFT Very high margins for Best Buy! Listen to both speakers rather than taking the BB recommendation, see what sounds best to you forget BB!

That is the other part of the problem... I've heard the ML speakers and have no problem with them. They sounded great. But nobody has Proficient speakers on display to test drive.
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post #72 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

So my AV guy is recommending three matching front speakers. I had never heard of the idea, but it sounded plausible. We wnt to BB to take a look at the new crop of HDTV's and we had one of the managers all to ourselves. So we asked all the questions we had - TV's, Blu-ray, projectors, screens, receivers... including the idea of matching front channels. He said definietly No with some of his logic and that is why they sell specific LCR speakers.

I found this thread when I started to research who was correct. Needless to say that the BB manager has not been enlightened to all the benefits of such a matching system. I am sold!

No comes my situation... The BB proposaal for our HT included Martin Logan front channle speakers - Motion 8 and Motion 4's. My AV guy's proposal included matching Proficient 404 front channel speakers. He said he liked the Proficient over ML because ML used paper speakers.

I can find very limited info on Proficient speakers and no highly favorable review that would lean me that direction. I can find plenty of support for the Motion 8's. Another AV guy informed me that the Proficient speakers are the contractor grade of speakers and that Martin Logan are the better choice.

No comes my question... Our Family Room is only about 16'x16' and we are not looking to rattle the windows and annoy the neighbors. And, our new entertainment center we are having build does not have space for anything larger than this style of speaker. What is the better speaker to select - three matching Proficient 404, or MartinLogan Motion 8's. (We know the cost differences and are willing to go up if needed.)

So, are you proposing using the 3 ML Motion 8s, horizontally?

I can't find anything at all about a "Proficient 404" online. Do you have a link?

Can you provide a photo of where the speakers will go with some dimensions to give us an idea of what the space where they will reside is like? Maybe we can give you some recommendations. If you must use 3 horizontally oriented speakers, consider KEFs, which have a coincidentally arrayed driver (tweeter inside woofer) that helps to reduce the ill-effects of a conventional horizontally oriented speaker.

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post #73 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 05:53 PM
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My bad... They are the Center Channel CC 400 speakers, not 404. Here is a link to their brochure: http://www.proficientaudio.com/images/stories/pdf/lit/CenterChannelDataSheet.pdf

I don't have pictures of the center yet, but the new 60" HDTV will be centered at 5'-0" with a speaker pocket built into the cabinet just above the TV. The pocket will be about 6" high, 6" deep and run the full 13' width, all covered with speaker cloth to conceal the speakers. The LR speakers will be spaced for our 106" screen that will hang down in front.

I'm not sure KEF's will be within budget or size limitations, they are nice options to consider.
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post #74 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

I don't have pictures of the center yet, but the new 60" HDTV will be centered at 5'-0" with a speaker pocket built into the cabinet just above the TV. The pocket will be about 6" high, 6" deep and run the full 13' width, all covered with speaker cloth to conceal the speakers. The LR speakers will be spaced for our 106" screen that will hang down in front.

So, the answer is "yes", you will be using 3 speakers, horizontally oriented, for your front speakers? And you are limited to 6" in height and 6" in depth? You realize the limitations, here, right?

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
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post #75 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 06:57 PM
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Yes, three horizontal center channels. We have no space for anything vertical, especially with a TV where the center channel should be centered. This is actually a major upgrade from the original proposal for ceiling mounted front channels.

Since this is a Family Room connected to the Kitchen and Dining Rooms with a hallway in the middle, the goal is to have a surround sound better than the TV speakers we have had for the past 10 years. Yes, we know there are limitations with our design, but the alternative is ceiling speakers in an 11' high ceiling. The size of the pocket may be able to still be increased slightly, but not 3-4". The size was determined for the ML speakers, but others with 4 or 5" may also work.
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post #76 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 07:19 PM
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The KEF Q100 is one of the concentric driver speakers that can be laid on it's side. On it's side it is 7.1" tall - if that will fit (you said you had a little extra room). It's "length" is 12". They are $400 a pair at http://www.accessories4less.com/, which I believe is actually cheaper than the Martin Logan Motion speakers you mentioned. (The Q300 is 8.25" tall when laid on it's side and 14" "long" so it is probably too large.)

If you check the KEF Owners thread (in this forum and other forums) you might be able to find someone with a leftover Q100 you can buy as a center (using 3 Q100's or Q300's LCR is not uncommon). Or, you can buy two pair and sell your leftover.
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post #77 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

Yes, three horizontal center channels. We have no space for anything vertical, especially with a TV where the center channel should be centered. This is actually a major upgrade from the original proposal for ceiling mounted front channels. Since this is a Family Room connected to the Kitchen and Dining Rooms with a hallway in the middle, the goal is to have a surround sound better than the TV speakers we have had for the past 10 years. Yes, we know there are limitations with our design, but the alternative is ceiling speakers in an 11' high ceiling. The size of the pocket may be able to still be increased slightly, but not 3-4". The size was determined for the ML speakers, but others with 4 or 5" may also work.

Go for all KEF LS50 all around you will be pleased trust me smile.gif
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post #78 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:18 PM
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+1 They're above your implied budget (7.9" tall laid on their side) but it would be hard to find a better sounding speaker with your space/orientation limitations!
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post #79 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

So my AV guy is recommending three matching front speakers. I had never heard of the idea, but it sounded plausible. We want to BB to take a look at the new crop of HDTV's and we had one of the managers all to ourselves. So we asked all the questions we had - TV's, Blu-ray, projectors, screens, receivers... including the idea of matching front channels. He said definitely No with some of his logic and that is why they sell specific LCR speakers.

I found this thread when I started to research who was correct. Needless to say that the BB manager has not been enlightened to all the benefits of such a matching system. I am sold!

No comes my situation... The BB proposal for our HT included Martin Logan front channel speakers - Motion 8 and Motion 4's. My AV guy's proposal included matching Proficient 404 (EDIT: CC 400) front channel speakers. He said he liked the Proficient over ML because ML used paper speakers. (Edit: Proficient uses Poly)

I can find very limited info on Proficient speakers and no highly favorable review that would lean me that direction. I can find plenty of support for the Motion 8's. Another AV guy informed me that the Proficient speakers are the contractor grade of speakers and that Martin Logan are the better choice.

No comes my question... Our Family Room is only about 16'x16' and we are not looking to rattle the windows and annoy the neighbors. And, our new entertainment center we are having build does not have space for anything larger than this style of speaker. What is the better speaker to select - three matching Proficient 404, or MartinLogan Motion 8's. (We know the cost differences and are willing to go up if needed.)

The salesman at BB that made the comment about specific LCR speakers is supporting the point I was trying to make earlier regarding marketing. I realize that the dedicated (horizontal) center channel speaker design was created to fill a need for those people who cannot accommodate a speaker to match their L/R. However, low-information/un-informed people (including BB Salesman) most often believe that the dedicated center channel design was created because it performs better than an identical speaker to the L/R. For this reason they will always recommend (and believe it to be the best choice) a dedicated-horizontal center speaker design over using the same speaker for L/C/R.

This is what I was trying to say.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #80 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 10:49 AM
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I did it with my setup and it sounds great - consistent sound stage, imaging, vocals, etc.

Simple 3.1 setup with GoldenEar Aon 2s. No where near as impressive as the other setups posted but might be helpful for some. I was able to do it because my furniture allows it...

I angled the center up a bit to help bring it inline with the L and R channels. Not perfect but it sounds pretty good!

LxRzFQbBt6SN_y-y9nfbSmXPZ90jWfQGjEh7Quy8Lmo?size=1024x768
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post #81 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

My bad... They are the Center Channel CC 400 speakers, not 404. Here is a link to their brochure: http://www.proficientaudio.com/images/stories/pdf/lit/CenterChannelDataSheet.pdf

I don't have pictures of the center yet, but the new 60" HDTV will be centered at 5'-0" with a speaker pocket built into the cabinet just above the TV. The pocket will be about 6" high, 6" deep and run the full 13' width, all covered with speaker cloth to conceal the speakers. The LR speakers will be spaced for our 106" screen that will hang down in front.

I'm not sure KEF's will be within budget or size limitations, they are nice options to consider.


Significant issues here.

To begin with, the CC400, is just not a sound design, nor would I consider a (2)4" CC merely from a capability perspective. In a 5.1/7.1 system, the CC is enormously important.

Now, the placement ... up above a 60" display, that's centered at 5', in a cabinet, firing right over everyone's heads. It needs to be robust and capable, aimed at the listeners, and with incur various acoustic distortion issues placed in a shelving/cabinet opening.


Coaxial designs, such as KEF mentioned, are great for CC, or any channel for that matter. I'm utilizing three identical coaxial (from ~180hz on up) across the front.

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post #82 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

I don't have pictures of the center yet, but the new 60" HDTV will be centered at 5'-0"

Why centred so high? The centre of the screen should be at eye level (ideally) and I doubt your eyes are at 5' when you sit on the couch (maybe the back row would be with multiple rows).
Quote:
with a speaker pocket built into the cabinet just above the TV. The pocket will be about 6" high.

Why such a short pocket? You are building an incredible media room and intentionally crippling it's ability to provide you with great sound to accompany the great visuals.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

Choose some decent speakers (you can get something that will be good that would definitely fit in 12", probably 10", but 6" is really pushing it), determine how big a pocket you need, and then lower the TV a bit.

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post #83 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 10:59 PM
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Sorry all to hijack a thread here but I do have a question about the 3 of the same speakers across the front. Here is my setup and so far I love it but am ready to upgrade my side speakers and need advice, if I should go with 2 more of the fronts/center and use them for the sides. They will be mounted about 7 feet or so on the side wall almost directly to the side of the listening position. They will of course be tilted down, aiming towards the listener.

What I have right now for the fronts and center are Yamaha NS-C444, I know these are not audiophile grade speakers but when I got them a couple years ago they where on clearance and I got them for about $69 each. Not a bad deal considering they are going for around $170 now on ebay. I was wondering if I could rig up a way to mount these on the wall would they work for surround speakers as well. I know they are going to be much better than what I have right now which is a set of Yamaha very small speakers part of a 5.1 HTIB set up. Here are the specs on my current center/sides. I have these running on a Yamaha RX-V2400 with dual Klipsch RW-12D subs.


Nominal Power 100 watt
Frequency Responses 55 Hz - 35 kHz
Impedance 6 ohm
Sensitivity 89 dB


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post #84 of 84 Old 06-04-2013, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Has any one had experience with these line array columns

 

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=89&MId=2

 

Also I wonder if they will ever release these that would be somthing :)  http://www.thx.com/test-bench-blog/the-next-leap-forward-in-audio/

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