NE Spring Speaker Shootout results thread - April 13, 2013 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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As standard practice, we figured it would be wise to create a separate thread to gather many of our thoughts throughout the day. It will take some time for sure for us to gather all of our thoughts and notes, but in the meantime this thread can serve as a placeholder for the EPICNESS we experienced all day.

I had an ABSOLUTE blast - these events seem to get better every time. I love getting such a good group together and putting new faces to the screen names each time. It's obvious we're all extremely dedicated to this hobby and it's fun to collaborate and share thoughts and ideas as well.

I need to express my gratitude to all that helped make another phenomenal event come to fruition. Big thanks to Jim W. for helping coordinate everything and help make the day run smoothly. Ben - Thanks for all your hard work coordinating the track selection and dealing with all of our last minute additions and changes to the list. IronMike - Thanks for your help in grabbing all the omnimic sweeps! I hadn't seen many of these yet to look forward to checking them out. Thanks to Adam and Mark for all the photo documentation of the day. Really looking forward to seeing many of the pics and recapping the event. Another huge thanks to goes all to all those that contributed toward the massive beer and food selection. And one last big thank to all the attendees that drove (or flew out) to make the event a success. My ears are still a bit hollow from all the fun and the late night blast session. I'm sure I'll remember a few more thank yous in a bit which I will add shortly. tongue.gif

And last by certainly not least by any means - to all the participating vendors including Arx, Seaton Sound, JTR, DIYsoundgroup, and SVS. Without you guys this event just couldn't happen.

Some cool facts from the day:
-We had representation from 12 states and 1 Canadian providence
-I was trying to get an idea of the total beer selection, but could not get them all. But from a quick estimate we had over 30+ varieties of beer and some very interesting choices for sure from all over the country.
-I wore a pedometer yesterday and had over 20,000 steps. biggrin.gif
-We ate Guinness oxtail stew (Thanks Ryan, that was great!), 7 different types of pizza, Hooters wings, Chic-fil-A nugget trays, and many other delicious snacks and treats


The details:


Note - Let me be clear up front - This was by no means a fully ideal comparison for all listeners and all setups. Doing a "proper" comparison for all attendees, in ideal locations, with each setup powered and dialed in properly would have likely taken 3-4 full days. With just 1 full day of listening, we had to make compromises in order to get to listen to everything on the list. Well, almost everything. smile.gif

The following setups were auditioned, in the same room. Listening levels at the primary position were mainly between 85-90db for most tracks during the standardized section. We level matched as best as we could for each setup. The room width varies from 14' to 19' at the back of the room and is 44' deep. The primary seating positions are 15' back from the speakers and subs. The Denon was used as the source of power for all of the standardized listening sessions. No EQ or additional processing was used and Ben's laptop fed clean FLAC clips to the receiver via HDMI for everything. For the setups with subwoofers we crossed them all at 80hz. There was approximately 23 minutes of total musical content for each demonstration. We started setting up at 8:45 AM and played right through 10:30 at night. A few of us (Ben, Beast, Austin, and I) hung out until nearly 3 in the morning chatting about the highlights of the event. wink.gif On Friday we had the first arrival at 1:30PM and were toying around with my setup and the clip list until 11PM or so.


The members:
Gorilla83, Andrew
JimWilson, Jim
Jeff Permanian
Mark Seaton
logicators, Hassan
Sibuna, Adam (plus Scott and Pat)
Beastaudio, Brandon
mikeduke, Mike
Ryansboston, Ryan
Rush2049, Ben
Popalock, Austin
mtg90, Matt
SeaNile, John
Chopshop, Jake
mhrischuk, Mike
Kadath, Sam
RX-8, Bill
ironhead1230, Mike
Imagic, Mark
351Carlo, Carlo (Friday only)
Reefdvr23, Dave
Rob from NJ, Robert
Newbie01, Alan
Gooddoc, Mark
easycruise, Dave

BTW - I'm expecting ALL of the attendees to post their impressions!

Final lineup list - we had a few additions and decided to move things around a bit to make the logistics a bit smoother. By popular consensus, we removed the Cat 8s, SEOS10s, and CHT-10s due to time.

Full Range
Monitor Audio RX8
Ascend Sierras
SVS Ultra Towers
Beast's LS6s
Legacy Focus SE
KRK 10-3s (played at the end of the event)

With Subs
Arx A5
SEOS Fusion 8s
JTR Single 8’s
SEOS Tempests
SEOS Sentinels
Yorkville U215s
JTR Noesis 212
Seaton Cat 12Cs
The finale - JTR Noesis, again powered by the EP4000 and the JTR S2's at full tilt (Thanks Dave for staying a while longer and letting us get to experience your toys in all their glory)


Track list - some of these were edited out, but I don't have the revised list

Yim Hok-Man - Poem of Chinese Drum - First Selection
Yim Hok-Man - Poem of Chinese Drum - Second Selection
Nickel Creek - House Carpenter
The Postal Service - The District Sleeps Alone Tonight
Styx - Renegade
Nickel Creek - Smoothie Song
Daft Punk - Derezzed
Nils Lofgren - Keith Don't Go
Nine Inch Nails - Something I Can Never Have
Pendulum - Hold Your Colour
Delerium ft. Sarah McLachlan - Silence (DJ Tiesto Remix)
Incubus - Just A Phase
[Kaskade] 4 AM (Adam K & Soha Radio Edit)
Billy Joel - The Downeaster 'Alexa'
Dispatch - Hey, Hey
Dream Theater - Take The Time
In Flames - Crawl Through Knives
Nightwish - Ghost Love Score
Of Monsters and Men - Little Talks
The Prodigy - Invaders Must Die
Tool - Jambi
Blake - Nowhere Near
Lindsey Stirling - Moon Trace
Tron Legacy OST - Overture
Sherlock Holmes OST - He's All Me Me Me
Sherlock Holmes OST - Romani Holiday (Antonius Remix)
Sherlock Holmes OST - Two Mules For Sister Sara
Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes - Home
5th Element OST - Diva Dance
Boysetsfire - Rookie
Dave Matthews Band - #41
Dave Matthews Band - Stay (Wasting Time)
Incubus - Echo
Mason Williams & Mannheim Steamroller - Classical Gas
Metallica - Seek & Destroy
The John Butler Trio - Betterman
Dire Straits - What It Is
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture Op. 49 (30 minute mark is part way through this)

Listening

In all honesty there wasn't a bad setup there and each setup had it's unique strengths. It was amazing to get the opportunity to hear all of these setups in my room.

If I recall correctly we fired up the first setup and began calibrating around 9:15AM. We got through the majority of the full rangers (outside the Legacys) by lunchtime around 1PM. In fairness to our ears, we maintained the standardized volume until we got to some of the heavy hitter high efficiency setups. I thought we wound up with a very representative and diverse clip selection, IMO. We spent a bit of time plucking through the tracks on Friday night and got it to just the right length. Any shorter would have not been enough but any longer would have been a bit much considering the number of setups we had. In typical fashion, as soon as I got to my setups (the SEOS sentinels first) the standardized volume got raised just a bit. wink.gif From there on out between Me, Jeff, and Mark I'll admit we dipped into the crazy territory. biggrin.gif My apologies go out to those who were blasted out of the room at times. tongue.gif

Jeff brought a pair of S2s to provide LFE duty for the 'with subs' category. For most of the clips we had them turned down a bit. After all the focus of the event was on the loudspeakers, not subs so it seemed appropriate. At the end of the Day Jeff wanted to stretch the legs of the S2s and show off their capability so we did just that. Our 'finale' for the day was the Noesis powered with 750+ watts per channel off the EP4000 and the S2s run a bit hot. We listened to the clips again at some stupid volumes and then followed by 3-4 tracks off the Scuba steve blu ray demo disc. The pair of S2s are potent animals for sure. AWESOME!

It's not all that often one can come to a place and hear 14 phenomenal setups in the same listening enviornment and conditions. I hope everyone else had as much fun as I did.

Until next time.....

Listening impressions, measurements and pictures to come in following posts....
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post #2 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Listening impressions

Note - (repeated from above post for emphasis) Let me be clear up front - This was by no means a fully ideal comparison for all listeners and all setups. Doing a "proper" comparison for all attendees, in ideal locations, with each setup powered and dialed in properly would have likely taken 3-4 full days. With just 1 full day of listening, we had to make compromises in order to get to listen to everything on the list. Well, almost everything. smile.gif

Another disclaimer - I'll admit I'm a bit biased toward the higher efficiency setups as of late. smile.gif

With so much to do I didn't get to listen to ALL of the setups as much as I would have liked to. I enjoy talking to other members and vendors as much as I do listening to the gear so that did consume some of my time as well. With that said, I did get to spend some time in the hot seat for a few of the setups. I will share my thoughts below:

Monitor RX8s

These were a list minute addition as Dave offered to bring them down. I'm glad he did as I enjoyed listening for sure. I was still running around the room helping others but listened to a few clips up front and thought "OK - these were probably too nice to start the meet with!" I was most impressed/surprised most with the bottom end of these guys - much more than I was expecting considering their size. Jim Wilson and I were outside and he asked if the subs were really off - that should tell you something. smile.gif I didn't get to spend much time in the hot seat, but from the middle of the room they offered a clean and refreshing sound. In terms of dynamics they seemed to be lacking compared to the larger offerings but that is expected. It's hard to say what they would sound like when cranked up to the levels of the others later in the day so I can't comment on that aspect. Last I checked these listed for around 850 each (someone call me if this is inaccurate). In terms of value I'd say they are mid-pack if that price is accurate.

Ascends
It wouldn't be fair to comment on these since I didn't spend too much time in the ideal positions. From what I heard walking around the room, I thought they had a nice laid back sound, but seemed to offer less bottom end than the Monitors.


SVS Ultras

I had spent about a month (on and off some nights) listening to these in my upstairs setup. Upstairs I thought they sounded average and at times a bit anemic to be honest. But when moved downstairs the sound completely changed - more so than I expected. The sound was much fuller and the bottom end was substantially better than the prior two offerings. I saw that some commented these to be "boomy" but I didn't think that was the case IMO. These could easily be run for music for many without subwoofers added in. They have a nice balanced sound (albeit with a pronounced bottom end), but didn't quite hit the "magic" mark for me that some of the later speakers did. Awesome looking speaker overall though.

LS6s
First thought - What a gorgeous speaker. Like the others, I wish we had the time/energy to give these babies several hundred more watts. It was surprising how much less efficient they were vs. specs on paper. I thought they had a huge soundstage and much better off axis response than the prior offerings in this class. Would have liked to had the chance to crank them up with more power - maybe I'll have to visit ufokillerz to do so shortly. biggrin.gif Beast - Thanks for lugging these monsters up our way to share - many including myself enjoyed watching and listening to them - even if not in the ideal scenario.

Legacy Focus SE
My favorite looking speaker of the day. Thanks to Mike for hauling these MASSIVE beasts over to share with us. Being I've spent some time designing my own crossovers, I can appreciate the complexity of these beuties. I spend about 4-5 minutes in the "hot seats" with these during the demo. I concur with many of the other comments in that they are one of the most balanced setups, but did have quite a narrow sweetspot for such a large speaker. Would have loved to have cranked them up some more with proper power. Will have to come visit Mike one of these days soon.

Arx A5
Unfortunately missed alot of the demo time of these as I was running around the house again. frown.gif

Fusion 8s
We spent a bit of time listening to these upstairs on Friday night - I was/am very impressed! More similar than different than the larger brother SEOS offerings, especially when run with capable subs. Don't expect thundering bass without subs in a home theater environment, but they will play loud and clean for any sane individual and they won't need more than an average receiver to do so. Top 5 value of the day IMO.


JTR Single 8's

I only got in the hot seat for 1-2 tracks of these. I was also impressed with the output and detail for these guys considering their size. Not sure how they would sound without subs, would love to compare them to something like the fusion 10s or fusion 8s in an A/B/C comparison. I can't help but wonder though, for the small difference and price and size, why not step up to the Noesis 228s? biggrin.gif Blind test next, anyone? biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

SEOS Tempests / Sentinels
I'm going to combine these together because they were/are more similar than different. They both play clean, loud, and clear with very little power required. The one mistake we made I believe was not letting the group experience them full range. This is where they provide the most value and differentiation from the rest of the peers in this group. Extension and output <80hz is fantastic with these guys and wish we would have let them shine in that area. Austin asked a few times during the demo to do so, to which I agreed but got sidetracked by the end. ADD for the loss, lol. frown.gif

I do believe if these speakers were to sell as a completed offering by an ID company they would be unrivaled at twice the cost to build. Don't expect Noesis level output, but for 95% of the population (especially with proper power) these will blow you out the room. The big advantages here are extension, nice looks (IMO), and extremely high value.

Yorkville U215's
These were one of the last minute additions and I'm super glad they were picked up to share with the group. Many of us (10-11 or so) got to spend a lot more time with them on Friday. They surely aren't going to win any awards in the looks department - although the raw look kind of suits its personality. If you're like me and going to run them behind a screen this isn't as much of a concern vs. a living room user. These are straight no-nonsense, blow your hair back beasts. Again I think I made a mistake by not letting the group witness them full range. After the event (Sunday) I had them hooked up to the EP4000 and the midbass is staggering! Like the Cat's, something that must be experienced in person vs. an online review. Clarity is fantastic, but slightly less detailed than the Noesis and Cat offerings IMO. I'll agree without EQ they are a bit more bright in my room vs. the Noesis and Cats. Awesome, awesome value for what you can buy them for. Hadn't initially planned on it, but now I'm going to look for a 3rd matching center or another pair if I can find them. biggrin.gif

Noesis
This was my second time listening to these guys. Like the others have said, when Jeff builds a flagship speaker he doesn't mess around. A phenomenal combination of raw output, detail, and clarity. They can be powered by an average receiver which is a huge plus in not having to require expensive amps to push them. Excellent overall package when combined with something like Jeff S2's.

Cat 12s
As I told Mark, these are the "end game" speaker for me. Favorite of the day with ease. They had absolutely no audible flaws that I perceived. I almost feel like buying these would be "cheating" since I would have no where left to experiment that would not be disappointing. biggrin.gif In full range mode, simply jaw dropping. Well done, Mr. Seaton. They are not inexpensive, but in this case you really do get what you pay for.

KRKs
This was my second time hearing these as well and again I was impressed. It's not an easy task to follow the "kings" of the day and they did not disappoint. Impressive output while remaining totally clear - Ben had them cranked up to reference for a few tracks. Awesome value for the money as they include active tri-amps in each!

Final thoughts
- Like I said there really wasn't a bad setup there that I thought performed poorly. The differences in the higher end setups were more subtle than drastic and realistically once EQ'd in a decent listening environment many would sound more similar than different. Like I said above I'm heavily biased toward the high efficiency setups and I'm mostly a DIY kind of guy these days so weight that into consideration when reading my thoughts. My room isn't perfect but I thought it represented many of the setups quite well.

Everyone looks for something specific when they're shopping for a speaker, or designing their own. For me it's a combination of high dynamics, clarity, the ability to play clean and very loud, and strong value. Looks and the extreme levels of detail are of secondary importance to me, personally.

Gorilla's Value picks, full range in no particular order - KRK 10-3, large SEOS offerings if you're willing to DIY (these were not demoed full range but I have listened to these models extensively)
Gorilla's Value picks, with subs in no particular order - Yorkville U215, JTR Noesis 212
Gorilla's favorite of the day - Seaton Catalyst 12C
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post #3 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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pictures

https://plus.google.com/photos/117078880283894341953/albums/5867654804077794033?authkey=CIudo4ep1Nn-wgE#photos/117078880283894341953/albums/5867654804077794033?authkey=CIudo4ep1Nn-wgE

1) Monitor audio RX-8
I came in late for these, missed a few clips and I was setting up for the first part, However I had to ask if we started with subs or full range, these played a lot lower then I was expecting and was pretty surprised by their extension. From where I was in the room they has some slight boomyness on a few tracks but in general good punchy extension. Mids were well defined and the highs were under control, the Sarah M track and the Blake one did not reach ear piercing lvls. Vocals got lost on the in flames track.

2) Ascend Sierra Towers with Raal
Bass on these was tight and clean buit did not extend as low as the RX-8s I felt it sounded a bit cleaner and the mids and highs were a little more detailed, Very clear and smooth in delivery,. Highs on Sarah M and Blake definitely got higher an d brighter, Did better with In Flames as well but was still slightly buried in there. The Plucking on the John Butler track was more clear and pronounced.

3) SVS Ultra Towers
These had the most bass output of the full rangers we ran (not counting the Cat12s) it was actually quite shocking. We had done some informal listening on Friday with them upstairs and the response was completely different. On all track they played much lower and the bass had more punch. We had to work on getting them lvl match because of the bass output differences. The midrange was well defined and I liked the highs out of these. A little more laid back than the Ascents or RX-8. Did not seem to get as bright on some of the tracks. Also the vocal separation on some tracks was noticeable, In flames sounded much better on these

4) LS-6
These guys are impressive in size and finish, they are gorgeous speakers and they are huge. They had good bass extension. Not as much as the SVS but about equal to the RX-8s. The first thing I noticed was the soundstage, its great on these, the wall of sound coming out is enveloping. Much more so then the previous speakers. It was not volume as a loudness, but as an amount. Very present to listen to. Good bass/mid response on Dispatch and Billy J, handles the highs on Sarah M and Blake well, did not get overly bright. Seemed to compress and get lost on the In Flames track. I suspect giving these a lot more power would get them to fully open up.

The LS-6 were my friend Scotts favorite speaker of the day. He made similar comments about the enveloping feeling of the sound from them

5) Legacy Focus SE
These speakers are beautiful. One of the best looking ones there. Finish was great (see pics)
These had good extension down low but not to the level of the SVS. But it felt cleaner and smoother. Nothing about the sound out of these is over emphasized. They are extremely well balanced across their range. Very easy and non-fatiguing sound. These were the best to this point for vocals on the In Flames track. At first I thought the highs on these was not as good as the others and then I stood up. These were the first speaker to show a large difference if you were vertically off axis. Once getting to the correct ear level that was fixed. These imaged very well and could be listened to for hours and hours at volume doe to how easy feeling the sound coming out of them is.


Everything below (unless notied) was run with subs. 2 JTR S2s were used


6) Arx A5s
This was the 2nd time I have heard these, the first being the last GTG. I like these speakers. We had them paired with 2 JTR S2s (overkill). These speakers have great detail a smooth neutral vocal delivery. Id classify them as being a little soft at times but otherwise good. Handled all of the challenging vocal tracks just fine.

7) Fusion 8 – Alchemy – DIY
These are mine, They are a DIY kit from the DIY Sound group using the Denovo DNA-205 Compression driver with the EOS-8 Waveguide paired with a 8” Eminence woofer. They were designed by Jeff Bagby. Moist noticeably with these and pretty much every speaker from here on is how different Horns sound vs ribbons and domes. These are small speakers (0.6 CUFT) but put out a large amount of sound. Very clear and detailed. First of the speakers to showcase how “too good of a recording” the Tron overture track is. They had the Best separation to this point on the vocals on In flames and Dispatch, first to get the real feel of a 3D soundstage since the LS-6. Midrange well defined above the sub xover but slightly lacking in punch due to size.

8) JTR Single 8 (ported)
These things have some amazing output for something their size, tiny footprint. Great clarity and detail, good punch on the bass. Jeff said these could take 1800 watts. Good separation on In flames, had the detail on tron, highs got very behaved but stayed in control on the Blake and Sarah M tracks.

9) SEOS Fusion 12 – Tempests & SEOS Fusion 15s – Sentinels
These are going together because of how similar they are
Both of these are kits from the DIY Sound group. I built the Tempests and Gorilla built the Sentinels. The tempests are another Jeff Bagby design using the Denovo DNA-360 Compression driver with the 12” SEOS horn paired with the Eminence Delta Pro-A. The sentinels use the same compression driver & horn but use the B&C 15PS76 woofer, MTG90 designed them.
Both speakers are extremely clean and detailed. Best so far on the day. Highs go high and can stay there and just scream at you right below the point where it would become annoying. Great soundstage and vocal separation on Dispatch & in flames. Big grins when Sarah M played loud. Finger plucking and violins sounded extremely clear and detailed. Started to be able to hear the subtle details in the recordings not often heard. The main difference in these 2 come when you run them very loud, the Sentinels can take a lot more power than the Tempests and have a slightly fuller bass above the sub xover due to the larger woofer. Both are tuned to ~40 Hz but will extend below 20 in rooms

10) Yorkville Unity 215
At this point it started to get silly. These things are huge and well not great to look at. Designed mainly as PA speakers for concerts/venues these look the part. These have an amazing soundstage, and like the previous horn offerings are extremely detailed and clear. IMO these were a bit too bright on the Sarah M and Black tracks. For me they passed into the cringe zone. They have an powerful midrange response with 2 15s on them. Definitely brighter vs the SEOS speakers. The sound coming out of them is very live and raw. This makes sense knowing what they are designed for. Great sounding speaker

11) JTR Noesis 212
Many were looking forward to hearing these. I loved them when I first heard them in Oct. Today they did not disappoint. Equally if not more Clear and Detailed then the yorks and SEOS, however it’s hard to say. With all of these I think we are splitting hairs on clarity and detail. Huge soundstage with limitless output potential. Very similar feel to the sound as the yorks and the SEOS it’s just that the Noesis do something more. I don’t know what it is but there is something different about them. There sound is more refined vs the yorks but similar, it’s like they just smooth off the rough edges ever so slightly. Non fatiguing at extreme volumes. We had them hooked up to the EP4000 at the end of the night and played some songs and movie clips. WOTW, Hulk, FOTP. All sounded amazing. Some have made comments about us being insane for giving these such power inside, but many of us really felt like the AVR was holding them back, especially in the highs when compared to the Cat12Cs. After giving them the juice the differences vanished. And yes we had them loud. Id imagine we were peaking in the 120s. sounded great


12) Seaton Catalyst 12C (with subs)
After having heard the 8Cs at the last GTG I was very excited to hear these. These were the same cherry red finish as the 8Cs we had last time and they look amazing and so do the stands. Really eye catching speaker. Equally as clean and detailed as the JTRs Bright but not too bright on the highs, nice tight punchy midrange. Id call them smoother vs the JTRS. Not the JTRs are not smooth, I think it has to do with the Cats did not give the same “live” feeling as the JTYRs did. Best delivery of Sarah M and dispatch tracks. Equally detailed as the JTRs on Tron. Best sounding on 1812. I thought these sounded better than the JTRs before we hooked up the EP4k to the JTRs. After that it’s a tie. I honestly can’t give the nod to either as both are amazing.

13) Seaton Catalyst 12C (no Subs)
For this Mark unplugged the 2 JTRS 2s and enabled the DSP option on the Cat12s that lets them play full range. He said it basically gives them the output of a SubM. This is actually pretty crazy. If someone had just walked in and you told them we did not have subs going the would not have believed you. Mark was running these hard and they just kept giving, Bass on Derezzed, & The prodigy was great. Vibrating the walls at 20+ feet. You do loose the ULF by not using subs but the output of these alone is still hard to get your head around. And TBH if you were getting a 2 channel full range setup these would be very hard to pass up. This is what I wrote down on Sat
“Speakers should not be able to do this without a sub” and “mark has broken the laws of physics”

14) KRK Rokit 10-3 Monitors
We hooked these up last (again) and not many were paying close attention. These speakers were the most accurate and detailed of any speaker we heard. Actually as Ben would say “too accurate” if your recording has issues these will definitely tell you. They reveled everything about the Tron track that is over recorded. The only speakers to get the very subtle breaths and page turns that are there. We ran them without subs and they have a good midrange section and good bass. They only extended to ~30hz by design and roll off pretty hard but sound good above that. Do not play super loud by design but when run at their limit they sound clear and detailed with a neutral delivery as to be expected from a studio monitor


faves of the day are prob the Cats running full range, they sounded amazing and there is the "this should not be happening" factor as well
JTRs are right below them, and TBH running with subs i dont think i would pick one over the other id take both
the SEOS guys i really like (i should i own 6 of them) they are a phenomenal value. great speakers covering a huge range of sizes and designs. I love mine for music and movies
and last but not least is the LS-6. really enjoyed the wall of sound coming from them
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OK here goes - 

 

Monitor Audio RS8: Absolutely a full-range speaker, with a low end that belied its size and immediately let me know that this GTG was going to be about serious speakers. I noted how the RS8 was able to keep up with the music, powered by nothing more than a Denon receiver. I though the imaging was not as great as some other speakers in the GTG, but then again speaker placement has a lot to do with that. I found the tweeters a bit piercing on some tracks. I added a note later in the evening—"In retrospect, the performance was pretty great."

 

Ascend Sierra Tower: I found the tweeter's "hyper definition" was immediately noticeable compared to the RS8, while the overall character of the speaker was a bit more dry. In my notes, I questioned the wisdom of designating them as full-range, a subwoofer could have made a huge difference in the overall performance. Good imaging and crystal highs were not backed up by the kind of bass most of the other speakers were capable of, including most of the "high efficiency" models.

 

SVS Ultra: Undoubtedly full-range speakers, with a "big" sound. Good imaging, but I found the "crisp" highs to be too much at times. With "Great transience and dynamics", they would have been a real gem if not for the occasionally shrill-sounding treble.

 

AV123 LS6: "Definitely re-defined full-range", as compared to the much smaller speakers that came before. I noted that they were the first pair to sound "exceptional" at the GTG, and that they were the first pair to really throw out a "proper" stereo image. I did find male vocals in to be overly sibiliant, but I did not have issues with other material. Absolutely full-range speakers that probably could have taken a lot more power than the receiver was capable of, but also did a fine job with the power at hand.

 

Legacy Focus SE: "Suddenly, much smoother" is what I wrote. "Measures just as loud, but sounds quieter" was another comment that seemed to be the popular consensus. "Full range, no doubt, but subdued" and "First speakers not to screw anything up, but at what cost?" were my notes. I noted that vocal reproduction seemed to be their main strength, also they look fantastic.

 

With that, the full-range presentation ended and the twin JTR S2 subwoofers were added to the system, with a 80Hz crossover.

 

Arx A5: "Not as much impact as the speakers that just preceded it" - but that's a patently unfair comparison, the A5s are much more compact than the monster speakers that preceded them. "Competent across genres" was my conclusion.

 

Fusion Alchemy 8": I thought the top-end definition did not rise quite to the level of the speakers that preceded these, yet I found the imaging was excellent. Again, a speaker that was competent across all the tested genres. Very efficient and receiver-friendly. "Within the listening zone", performance was very good.

 

JTR Single 8" HT: "Very forward, crisp and dynamic" with a sound that is definitely "larger" than the speakers themselves. Not merely competent, they were pleasing on all genres. Their performance was so  good, they were subjected to an extra round of higher volume level testing, where they still performed with aplomb.

 

12" SEOS "Tempest": Smooth treble, that was my first thought. "Forward, but always silky". I found they were not quite as dynamic as the JTR 8, but they were as well-rounded performance-wise.

 

15" SEOS "Sentinel": Midrange and upper bass were very present. Once again, SEOS sounded super smooth, with zero compression and causing zero fatigue. The imaging was not as forward as with the smaller horn designs. Great imaging, and perceived volume was very high.

 

Since the GTG was not really a shoot-out, it was not such a big deal that from this point on, the speakers that were demonstrated played at volume levels that would have destroyed the smaller speakers from early in the day, were one to attempt to reach the same levels.

 

Yorkville Unity 2X15: These speakers really dissected the tracks, rendering each element distinctly and with authority. The tempting, awesome sound of the Yorkvilles resulted in the subwoofers being turned up, so from this point onward the consistency in listening was lost, but the truth is most of the earlier speakers were not prepared to compete at this level. "Felt the music, track after track" and "My kind of speaker" were in the notes.

 

JTR Neosis: "Finally, a virtuoso performance." 'nuff said. Speakers I would own. Speakers I could listen to at any volume, forever. "Really puts all the domed tweeters to shame" was another observation.

 

Seaton Cat 12c: "Bangin' dymamics" and "Non-fatiguing, even at insane, dangerous levels" were my first thoughts. "The very definition of full range"—but I noted that the Neosis might have the edge on subtlety, while the Cat 12c—let's just say you'll never need "more speaker" because they will physically harm you before they distort.

 

*"full range" speakers were at a disadvantage when it came to output, compared to the speakers that had access to the twin S2 subwoofers. With a 80Hz crossover, the receiver had a much easier time driving the non full-range models, that's just simple science. In this context, the "full-range" designated speakers that impressed should be lauded for doing such a great job with limited amplification. Especially when space, aesthetics and budget come into play, the early entrants really did better than the later comments would imply.

 

One of the biggest surprises was the huge performance from the compact JTR Single 8 HT. That speaker had no right to be as good as it was, considering its size.

 

 

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post #6 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 08:03 AM
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I am looking forward to reading this thread. smile.gif
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post #7 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

One of the biggest surprises was the huge performance from the compact JTR Single 8 HT. That speaker had no right to be as good as it was, considering its size.




+1. Amazing detail and output from that Single 8 that entirely belies its size.

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
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post #8 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 08:44 AM
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What was the processor used for the cats12 and noesis?

Denon 4311
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post #10 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 09:28 AM
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I am pretty much a noob and this was my first event and pretty much the first time listening to multiple speakers for hours on end.
I certainly am not that experienced at reviewing speakers, but I know what I like and will interpret what I liked and what speakers
I focused on and will keep it pretty simple.

The two winners for me were the JTR single 8's and the SVS.
Anyone looking for an easy 5.1 5 single 8's and an S2 would be all you need.
I will disqualify the JTR Noesis and Seaton Cat 12's of my winners, because we all knew these were the heavy weight main event

I settled in up front for the full range and latter moved to the back later in the day for the rest of the auditions

RX8's
These were also mine and started off the full range line as well as the GTG. I found right away that the RX8's sounded way better in Andrews room than in mine.
I do know that the RX8's produce great bass for their size and tend to be a little bright and some say maybe a bit fatiguing at times. I myself like it a little bright so
not a problem there. Owning these speakers, I thought at the $1700 per pair price point aesthetically and sound wise they were a solid speaker. These will do well
in a H/T setting and 2CH set up. You could easily get away from buying a sub if bass is not a big issue.


Sierras
I really liked the Sierras. They surprised me that they were smaller than I would have thought I have wanted to hear these for a while and were on my list when
I was searching for my mains a year or so ago. I thought they were pretty similar to the RX8's. I was surprised by the bass form the smaller drivers, they produced a
nice punchy bass and handled the kettle drums very nice. I was expecting a little more from the Raal tweeter. I thought that they brought a little better top end
imagining and clarity over the RX8, but not by much. Certainly a vey nice speaker and I can understand why they are mentioned and recommended


SVS
This was one of my favorite speakers of the day. I think one of the reasons was that it was a big step up from the first two speakers of the day. The Speaker had
a big presence and just seemed to get in your face.

The SVS delivered very good "deep" bass and very good clean crisp highs. I thought it was very accurate, good mids and delivered most of the tracks
very cleanly. The kettle drums sounded great. I would have really liked to have heard this one again with a little more juice, but from what I heard a solid shooter.
Besides the Legacy and LS6 I thought aesthetically this was one of the best looking speakers of the day. Probably a very good choice for a 50/50 guy.


LS6
What a beautiful speaker!! I would have loved to have heard these with more power. I think an encore was in order but time was not or our side.
I thought they delivered a great bass and I liked the violins that they sounded real. I was really expecting the highs to much crisper, but again
they were being held back and I think all would agree.

Legacy
I really cannot comment on this speaker as I was outside at this point. I did come up for a couple of quick tracks, but not enough to form an opinion.


With Subs

ARX5
I did not spend as much time with these as I should have considering that I really wanted to hear them.
I noticed right away they sounded a little flat, I believe these were the first set to go on with the S2's and the S'2 immediately got my attention biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
It was hard to focus when they were unboxed. I did notice right away they were a little flat for my taste. I noticed a few of the other guys were going
down to the floor to get into the sweet spot and they did seem to sound better at that level. However standing over the speaker there was not a very good off axis listening
position, you really had to get under the speaker. I guess I would have liked to hear these in full range and in the hot seat to get a better idea of this one.
No disrespect to the ARX5's or the owner, but just not the speaker for old Reef. At the $750 price point it is a good buy.

JTR single 8
As most have said this was a big surprise of the night. I was more towards the back when these were playing. They were very accurate and very clean and crisp.
It was just amazing how the sound was traveling to the back of the room. The violins sounded great. These would come very highly recommended for someone looking to
do a simple 5.1>5.2 5 of these and a good sub and you would be very happy. However, for the extra few hundred the Noesis 228ht's come in to play. I am thinking of adding
the single 8's for my side left and right.

Seos
I was having some back pain considering my back had been out for a couple of weeks. So I went to the back and sat barside and had some laughs with Jim, Mark and Jeff for a couple of hours. I reemerged for the Yorkvilles. I did get a little of the Fusion 8's and thought they sounded great. Also a good looking speaker and what a value at $400 and change.

Yorkvilles
This was the beginning of the wow factor for me. What a great speaker.
Incredible highs, great midrange and just played very accurate. This was on the Noesis level, but I did not feel it was as dynamic. I look forward to hearing them again and hopefully at full tilt.


Noesis
I really don't know what to add to what has already been said, but in my own review I was stunned when the Noesis went on set. I had part of the hot seat for half of the audition, Brandon was kind enough to offer me the hot seat for the Noesisi set, but I wanted others to enjoy them since they were mine and I have plenty of time to enjoy them. About a quater way through Chopper was kind enough and got up and insisted I take his seat and this time I could not pass. I was immediately drawn into the zone. I remember when I was researching this speaker I had read the reviews from the KC guys and when Archaea stated he got "chills", I knew exactly what he meant. This was by far the best speaker I have ever heard besides the Cat 12's. The clarity of the speaker is so ever good. Details and imaging beyond what I can describe. The incredible part is how bright the speaker is but yet is so ever pleasant to listen to. I could have sat in that chair for hours. I wanted to hear the set list over again. I remember at one point just laughing at how crazy good this speaker was. I forget who wrote it, but someone posted 212's vs the world in the NE GTG thread and that just about says it all. Congrats Jeff, you hit it out of the park with this one. It was also an honor to stay a bit longer and open them up. Andrew basically did me a favor and broke them in for me biggrin.gif

A little update, I installed my new Denon 4520 yesterday. I have had it for a couple of weeks, but I was waiting for the GTG and to take delivery of the 212's before I went ahead and installed it. I spent most of the day just getting to know the new Denon. I have to say the is an incredible AVR. It is light years above my previous 3312ci and 2312ci. It has a new GUI so it took some time to figure things out. It stated to get latter in the day and I just had to hear the Noesis in my room, so I really just did an embarrassing set up. I ran one seating position of an audyssey sweep, just basically threw the mic on the couch and fired away. I then did a ball park level matche and moved my XV-30s into their home and then fired it up and just wow!! With just a sloppy tune these speakers sounded great. I thought I would loose allot from hearing them in Andrews room, but that was not the case, they sounded every bit as good. The surprising part was the bass I gained from moving the subs from my near field LP to the corners of the room roughly 15ft away. The Noesis are pairing very well with the XV-30's. I ran a few songs and in that time I was watching stuff falling off tables and shelves. I busted one of my wife's vases and a picture frame biggrin.gif The vase basically walked across the coffee table and went over the side. The scary part is I am still waitng for my 228ht to arrive. eek.gif


Cat 12's
These were a big surprise, but not really. No secret anymore that the Cat 12 in full range was one of the biggest stories of the night besides the JTR single 8's. The Cat 12's are a one man show that is for sure. Bass was no problem for the Cat 12 it produced ground shaking deep bass with zero distortion. The clarity of the speaker was crystal clear and almost as good as the Noesis, but just not as dynamic.The whole speaker just came toghether and blended superbly. It handled everything thrown at it and did all with no flaws and accurately with authority. For the person looking for a speaker that can just do it al without subs, this is the one. I would still prefer to run the Cats crossed over with good high end subs and just let the Cats focus on detail and just let subs do what they do. Mark, you too hit out of the park. Just a Fabulous speaker all around.
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post #11 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 09:58 AM
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I too was amazed at the single 8 and the big boys later in the evening. I think I might be making some changes soon.

See My Setup Here

 

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post #12 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 10:39 AM
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I'm still sitting on a bar stool at the airport drinking some Sam Adams. smile.gif I'll post some comments latter today or tomorrow once I get back home.

I will say that it was an incredible weekend and a huge thanks to Andrew who hosted the GTG AGAIN and to Jim W. who helped with much of the planning and coordination. I know that there is a huge amount of effort to make these things happen and things went pretty much flawlessly. Thanks guys for your efforts!

-- Bill --
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post #13 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

ARX5

I did not spend as much time with these as I should have considering that I really wanted to hear them.
I noticed right away they sounded a little flat, I believe these were the first set to go on with the S2's and the S'2 immediately got my attention biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
It was hard to focus when they were unboxed. I did notice right away they were a little flat for my taste. I noticed a few of the other guys were going
down below the listening position and they did seem to sound better. However standing over the speaker there was not a very good off axis listening
position, you really had to get under the speaker. I guess I would have liked to hear these in full range and in the hot seat to get a better idea of this one.
No disrespect to the ARX5's or the owner, but just not the speaker for old Reef. At the $750 price point it is a good buy.

What do you meaning "standing over" and get under? Could it be you might have been too far off axis and the tweeter was too high up from you LP? Ribbons/planars have a narrow vertical dispersion to reduce floor to ceiling reflections, maybe you were just in a bad spot?

Details and airyness seem to be a common describtion of the Arx speakers, but going too far off axis would kill the treble response (as with most speakers).

I think in a smaller room they would perform much better maybe? Did it seem like the room might have been too big for certain speakers?
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post #14 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 10:57 AM
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First a big thank you to Gorilla for hosting, Ben for creating the playlist and being in charge of the playback, Jim for all the help with planning and collecting the donations, Mark and Jeff for bringing some toys, everyone that brought speakers, and everyone that attended. It was a great day of listening to a variety of speakers and talking about this crazy hobby of ours with fellow enthusiasts, or was it addicts.

I hope this thread does not turn into any intense arguments. While we tried to level match some of the speakers, our process was not exact and we had some issues, so it was really a best effort. People were also listening at less than ideal spots and I don't think everyone stayed in the same spot for all the speakers. I viewed this less as a "shootout" and more as just a friendly GTG. So please keep that in mind reading everyone's comments.

I'll add more to what Andrew said about the setup procedure and will post the omnimic sweeps either later tonight or tomorrow.

-Mike
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post #15 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

What do you meaning "standing over" and get under? Could it be you might have been too far off axis and the tweeter was too high up from you LP? Ribbons/planars have a narrow vertical dispersion to reduce floor to ceiling reflections, maybe you were just in a bad spot?

Details and airyness seem to be a common describtion of the Arx speakers, but going too far off axis would kill the treble response (as with most speakers).

I think in a smaller room they would perform much better maybe? Did it seem like the room might have been too big for certain speakers?

This was definitely an issue with more than one speaker. People were listening while sitting on the floor, couch, bar stool and standing. I'll add more to this later, but I was sitting on a bar stool and noticed a distinct change in sound at times moving my head down a foot or two.
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post #16 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

What do you meaning "standing over" and get under? Could it be you might have been too far off axis and the tweeter was too high up from you LP? Ribbons/planars have a narrow vertical dispersion to reduce floor to ceiling reflections, maybe you were just in a bad spot?

Details and airyness seem to be a common describtion of the Arx speakers, but going too far off axis would kill the treble response (as with most speakers).

I think in a smaller room they would perform much better maybe? Did it seem like the room might have been too big for certain speakers?
As I said I am new to reviewing speakers and I am trying to explain it the best I can and I thought I did that in my review??. I called it how I heard it. When I say get under it, I meant you had to sit on the ground to get to the sweet spot. It was really the only speaker that had the worst off axis LP. Just something I am noting because it is obvious. Certainly you really can judge a speaker in a 23 minute sweep. Possible these should have been put on stands since they were a little on the shorter side, but they were placed about a foot off the floor anyway. . The room was a little on the larger side, but treated well. So yes a smaller room, better sweet spot and maybe a different result. I had another member tell my my RX8 basically sucked, but another guy said he loved them. Go figure. Pretty much why you have to hear speakers for your self.
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post #17 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 11:11 AM
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I'm interested in how the ls6 performed. More specifically, I am interested if anyone noticed effects of comb filtering due to it being a line array.
Some people actually prefer the comb filter effect as that gives the impression of a huge soundstage; however, some argue that in doing so, it no longer sounds realistic. I'd like to see what the good people at this gtg heard.
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post #18 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

I'm interested in how the ls6 performed. More specifically, I am interested if anyone noticed effects of comb filtering due to it being a line array.
Some people actually prefer the comb filter effect as that gives the impression of a huge soundstage; however, some argue that in doing so, it no longer sounds realistic. I'd like to see what the good people at this gtg heard.

I heard an accurate, capable full range speaker that probably needed something a bit juicier than a receiver to power it properly. Absolutely full range. The imaging was superior to the first two speakers, which used domes—that was my observation anyhow. I took pains to listen to a couple of tracks from the same (couple of) spots for each speaker and to take my notes during those times. In my notes I mention that male vocals were perhaps too sibilant - but that could also be the result of a bad mix being played on an unforgiving (i.e. revealing) speaker.


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post #19 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

As I said I am new to reviewing speakers and I am trying to explain it the best I can and I thought I did that in my review??. I called it how I heard it. When I say get under it, I meant you had to sit on the ground to get to the sweet spot. It was really the only speaker that had the worst off axis LP. Just something I am noting because it is obvious. Certainly you really can judge a speaker in a 23 minute sweep. Possible these should have been put on stands since they were a little on the shorter side, but they were placed about a foot off the floor anyway. . The room was a little on the larger side, but treated well. So yes a smaller room, better sweet spot and maybe a different result. I had another member tell my my RX8 basically sucked, but another guy said he loved them. Go figure. Pretty much why you have to hear speakers for your self.

I just didn't know what you meant by "get under it" or "stand over it". Thats why I asked.
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post #20 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 11:44 AM
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I too was amazed at the single 8 and the big boys later in the evening. I think I might be making some changes soon.

And give up the refined and sweet Legacy Focus SEs. Now that would be a bold move. I also heard the same thing you did and it was eye opening. It's causing a lot of thinking.
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post #21 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 11:48 AM
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First of all I am going to try to keep my thoughts concise, saves me writing using unnecessary audiophile terminology and it saves you reading terms you would interpret differently than I intended.

Full Range
Monitor Audio RX8
-first showing of the day, did well but I thought there was a distinct lack of bass (understandable)
-had better stereo imaging than the ascend sierras

Ascend Sierras
-had less low bass than the monitor audio's
-mid bass was also less pronounced (bass guitar range)
-I thought they sounded a bit clearer when the track was very busy (heavy metal)

SVS Ultra Towers
-while we ran these hot by accident, the bass was way too boomy and muddled
-they didn't have clear highs and the midrange seemed quiet in comparison to earlier offerings (vocals)

Beast's LS6s
-needed more juice
-highs were a bit fatiguing
-bass was much more refined than the ultra towers, but had tons more presence than anything earlier

Legacy Focus SE
-dissapointed with these
-had un-distinct high frequencies and weak bass, but I will say both were clear and precise
-did not have as bad of a sweet spot issue as the Arx did, seemed off axis wasn't bad.... but I was unable to find a sweet spot at all.

KRK 10-3 monitors (owner bias)
-These were run last at the event, full range (without subs)
-super clinical, very distinct on every part of each track (a negative at times)
-volume wise it couldn't hit the level of the yorkville/noesis/cat 12s (very close) but that is only cause the amps are anemic and the woofer power limited a few times when I pushed the reciever to +2 (notably on the blake track)
-was run at reference (0 dB) for entire track list, going louder on some tracks.
-bass was very present, possibly best out of all the full rangers


With Subs
Arx A5
-the highs on the Blake track were so so good, but it didn't have the problem of trying to reproduce the low note at the same time.....
-this had a terribly small sweet spot vertically, about a foot high around the level of the ribbon tweeters, outside of this it was disappointing how much worse it was.

SEOS Fusion 8s
-I did not listen to these in the same spot as the others, can't comment

JTR Single 8’s
-very pronounced sound stage, easy to pinpoint their location
-don't think there was a single thing that did not sound correct

SEOS Tempests
-I did not listen to these in the same spot as the others, can't comment

SEOS Sentinels
-what standardized listening level.....
-I started to contemplate ear plugs at this point
-highs were a bit harsh and sibilance was very loud
-I liked these more than other SEOS offerings, but I think I liked the Arx slightly more

Yorkville U215s
-having messed with these the night before a lot, and using them to make final clip selections I will say they are very good (top 3 for me)
-highs are clear, but subtle nuances in tracks are lost a bit in the mix
-when we ran them full range they sounded just as good, meaning the extra power needed did not subtract from the ability already present

JTR Noesis
-running full tilt hit 120+ dB with the high frequencies, piccolo notes hurt your ears.....
-I think I would buy these if I had no budget and had to get something from the event, they were the most balanced across all frequencies and sounded oh so clear
-but I will mention, they are not capable of bass...... they must have a sub

Seaton Cat 12Cs
-the bass here was scary good, had the sub's in the front moving due to sound pressure even though they were off
-highs and mids were very clear as well as the noesis, but I felt they weren't as distinct
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post #22 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 12:04 PM
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As I said I am new to reviewing speakers and I am trying to explain it the best I can and I thought I did that in my review??. I called it how I heard it. When I say get under it, I meant you had to sit on the ground to get to the sweet spot. It was really the only speaker that had the worst off axis LP. Just something I am noting because it is obvious. Certainly you really can judge a speaker in a 23 minute sweep. Possible these should have been put on stands since they were a little on the shorter side, but they were placed about a foot off the floor anyway. . The room was a little on the larger side, but treated well. So yes a smaller room, better sweet spot and maybe a different result. I had another member tell my my RX8 basically sucked, but another guy said he loved them. Go figure. Pretty much why you have to hear speakers for your self.

This is a great thread,i wish more of these kind of gtg's were done. I am subscribed and looking forward to all the different viewpoints of all the people who attended. OH and pictures and lots of them.
Reef hit the nail on the head, no matter what the measurements or room or hype, it comes down to individual preference, what we all like to hear and enjoy. Hopefully this will stay as an informative thread and no one will get their panties in a knot. Did I mention picktures biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #23 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob from NJ View Post

And give up the refined and sweet Legacy Focus SEs. Now that would be a bold move. I also heard the same thing you did and it was eye opening. It's causing a lot of thinking.

Rob ,could you elaborate. what speakers do you have now and did you hear something you think might be your next contestant smile.gif
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post #24 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 12:16 PM
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I'm glad I wasn't one of Andrew's neighbors during this event. eek.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #25 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 12:24 PM
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Could somebody give me their thoughts on the Noesis and hiss when being powered by a high gain amp (specifically the EP4000)?

Giegar posted this in one of my threads,

"I looked up the spec sheet for the EP4K. My concern in your situation is the fairly high 34dB amplifier gain. As I mentioned above, some JTR (T12HT?) owners have reported audible hiss from tweeters when powered by Emotiva XPA series amps, due to the 32dB amplifier gain. Some have gone on to generalise that high sensitivity speakers should not be paired with high gain amps due to the elevated noise floor. (Of course powering subs with high gain amps like the EP4K is popular as any hiss is well above the subs passband.) The pro amp gurus on the DIY boards will probably be able to shed more light on this. Edit: I see in this thread that they ran the 212HT's off an EP4000 at Gorilla83's GTG. Might be worth keeping an eye on attendees impressions. Perhaps quiz them about any hiss."

I have some Noesis on order and I was thinking about pairing them with the EP4000 since it seems like the best bang for the buck! Thanks!

EDIT: I thought Giegar's post had a typo in it, so I changed the model from T12HT to 212HT, but there is a T12HT model, so I'm changing it back.
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post #26 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David H. View Post

Could somebody give me their thoughts on the Noesis and hiss when being powered by a high gain amp (specifically the EP4000)?

Giegar posted this in one of my threads,

"I looked up the spec sheet for the EP4K. My concern in your situation is the fairly high 34dB amplifier gain. As I mentioned above, some JTR (212HT?) owners have reported audible hiss from tweeters when powered by Emotiva XPA series amps, due to the 32dB amplifier gain. Some have gone on to generalise that high sensitivity speakers should not be paired with high gain amps due to the elevated noise floor. (Of course powering subs with high gain amps like the EP4K is popular as any hiss is well above the subs passband.) The pro amp gurus on the DIY boards will probably be able to shed more light on this. Edit: I see in this thread that they ran the 212HT's off an EP4000 at Gorilla83's GTG. Might be worth keeping an eye on attendees impressions. Perhaps quiz them about any hiss."

I have some Noesis on order and I was thinking about pairing them with the EP4000 since it seems like the best bang for the buck! Thanks!

I don't believe anyone every reported hiss issues with the 212HT's. I remember reading earlier in the JTR thread that some with the T12's heard a slight hiss with Emotiva amps while others didn't.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
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post #27 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

Rob ,could you elaborate. what speakers do you have now and did you hear something you think might be your next contestant smile.gif

I'll start with some background and elaborate further in additional posts. I brought the Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers to the GTG. The Sierras were played with the full range speakers under different conditions than many of the other speakers (without the awesome pair of JTR S2 subs) and level matched at a certain volume. The JTR Single 8, Noesis 212 and Seaton Cat12 demos blew me away not necessarily in that order of preference, and each for very different reasons of which I'll expand in a later post. How much of it was based on listening with different conditions, its hard to say.

What I will say is the use of my audio system is almost entirely movies. I have a non-dedicated theater room in a somewhat large basement, similar to Andrew's setup with projection screen/projector. As much as I like to think playing music is a current goal and I certainly enjoy listening to music, the reality is with the limited free time I have I watch movies. The JTR and Seaton offerings have great possibilities for home theater, as well.
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post #28 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I don't believe anyone every reported hiss issues with the 212HT's. I remember reading earlier in the JTR thread that some with the T12's heard a slight hiss with Emotiva amps while others didn't.

I am watching the Masters on the system and just checked the 212HT's for hiss. Cranked the system to ref on several sources with nothing playing and they were silent from less than a foot away in a quiet room. The gain on my W4S amp is 27db.

BTW, thanks to all of you guys for putting on the GTG and taking the time to report your thoughts. Even with all the variables, I find this type of information really helpful and interesting. cool.gif

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post #29 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I am watching the Masters on the system and just checked the 212HT's for hiss. Cranked the system to ref on several sources with nothing playing and they were silent from less than a foot away in a quiet room. The gain on my W4S amp is 27db.

Thanks for the replies Rob and jbrown15. So at 34 dBs for the EP4000, shouldn't make any difference, right?
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post #30 of 569 Old 04-14-2013, 01:16 PM
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Updated my post above. I will post later on some observations on the track list and what I was listening for on each, and which set did best in my opinion.
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