bi-amp 5.1 vs 7.1 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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im still kinda new to this forum
so this question has probably been asked
my apologizes ahead of time

can someone explain the pros and cons of the bi-amp function on my rx-v867
i have a 7.2 setup with presence speakers
but it seems that in order to use the bi-amp mode i have sacrifice the my back surrounds and presence sp
and convert to 5.1 to use it
will bi-amping make a huge difference on my front sp???
is my speakers capable of doing well without that function or not???
i love the presence sp function because i can lift the dialogue from the center to the presence (it makes certain low dialogue more clearer)
i dont really want to turn that function off but it seems i cant use presence and bi-amp together right???
my current setup
RX-V867
yamaha NS-555 towerspeakers
yamaha NS-C444 center speaker
yamaha NS-333 for presence
sony SA-VE367T for surrounds speakers
SVS 20-39PCI
Yamaha YST-SW315
I know that i said much but any help will be appreciated thx!!!!
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post #2 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 05:08 PM
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Don't bother bi-amping, it's a waste of two amplifier channels in the opinion of just about everyone on here. The single case where I would even remotely think it useful is if you wanted to run a tube amp up top and a solid state down bottom because you want your highs to have that "tube feel".

That said, depending on your room size, many would discount 7.1, but if you already bought the speakers.... I still don't think there is much content with 7 discrete channels, so it's all matrixed. With larger rooms that really need the ambient fill, it's probably very helpful. In smaller rooms, it may hurt more than it helps....

That said...listen for yourself and see.
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post #3 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 05:08 PM
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Technically it's bi-wiring. Your speakers are capable of that but it won't make a difference plus you'd lose your presence channel.
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post #4 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 05:10 PM
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Proper bi-amping is done with 2 separate amps. The point of bi-amping or tri amping is to power the High frequency, mid frequency and low frequency drivers separately. Look at powered speakers. They quote a HF power and a LF power. This means that One amp is only providing power to either the HF or LF. This process, as far as I'm aware, uses active crossovers to separate the power. Im sure someone else could give you a much better example and a more in depth explanation.
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post #5 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 05:16 PM
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AVR biamping is a gimmick. Dont waste your time. The only way to get any benefit from biamping is to disable the crossovers in your speakers. As long as the crossovers in your speakers are active you will get no benefit. Even proper biamping usually has little effect on home speakers. It is something more relevant to concert live performance type speakers.

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post #6 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Even proper biamping usually has little effect on home speakers. It is something more relevant to concert live performance type speakers.
If you mean, "even if you remove the passive x-over, using an active x-over and separate amplifiers still has little effect on home speakers" then I would only agree a little. Sometimes, having a lot more control over that active x-over can have benefit to controlling how the drivers blend and mix with the room. So, if you have a powerful enough active x-over / processing system, it may help. Otherwise, probably not.... And I suppose, still, there would probably be things (room treatment) better done first before reaching into that territory anyway for that last percent.

Of course, if you don't remove the passive x-over, I wouldn't ever put an active x-over in front...you'll probably do more harm than good having the two slopes compete.
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post #7 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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wow
I'm overwhelmed with everone on point responses
looks like ima need to learn more about hometheater speakers and receivers lol

ok so it seems the bi-amp function is not that that useful
my yamaha manual states that it will produce higher quality sound....??? (paraphasing alil)
I guess my NS-555 are good on there own huh???

and yea I like my presence sp
my dialouge is alil more spacious than centered

any more replies
greatly appreciated!!!
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post #8 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weezz View Post

ok so it seems the bi-amp function is not that that useful
my yamaha manual states that it will produce higher quality sound....???!!
Manuals are written by marketeers, not engineers. So-called passive bi-amping does nothing, neither does bi-wiring. Manufacturers include those options so that they won't lose a sale to someone who's been convinced that they do work.

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post #9 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weezz View Post

wow
I'm overwhelmed with everone on point responses
looks like ima need to learn more about hometheater speakers and receivers lol

ok so it seems the bi-amp function is not that that useful
my yamaha manual states that it will produce higher quality sound....??? (paraphasing alil)
I guess my NS-555 are good on there own huh???

and yea I like my presence sp
my dialouge is alil more spacious than centered

any more replies
greatly appreciated!!!

Since you have all this equipment why not just try it? If you hear a difference, leave them that way. If not change it back to the original configuration.

You've got nothing to lose but a little time.

Afro GT
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post #10 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 11:24 AM
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Are you looking for more power? Just add an amp. As long as you have preouts, not sure of your AVR. There are affordable Behringer amps out there for a for a few hundred.
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post #11 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 11:38 AM
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Here is a really great article explaining the benefits of bi-amping, and why bi-wiring (bi-amping and keeping the passive crossover) is a gimmick - http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#common-question
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post #12 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Manuals are written by marketeers, not engineers. So-called passive bi-amping does nothing, neither does bi-wiring. Manufacturers include those options so that they won't lose a sale to someone who's been convinced that they do work.

Exactly. At one place I worked, the engineers laughed at the things the marketing people put in the manuals.

At another company, the marketing people asked the engineers to review and redline the manuals before the final copy. Sometimes the changes would be made, and sometimes they wouldn't be made.

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #13 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Since you have all this equipment why not just try it? If you hear a difference, leave them that way. If not change it back to the original configuration.

You've got nothing to lose but a little time.

so far i notice some difference but small
on bi-amp mode i notice my bass had a lil stronger punch and treble was alil tighter from the ns-333 towerspeakers
on non bi-amp with presence speakers functioning everything sound more EXPANSIVE and clear
difference is small.....!!!!
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post #14 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Exactly. At one place I worked, the engineers laughed at the things the marketing people put in the manuals.

At another company, the marketing people asked the engineers to review and redline the manuals before the final copy. Sometimes the changes would be made, and sometimes they wouldn't be made.

What is more funny is that most people believe the marketers as opposed to the engineers.
Funny how this world works right?

If there's one thing I've learned it's that as long as you know how to talk, people will believe anything you say. Even if it's pure crap.
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post #15 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Exactly. At one place I worked, the engineers laughed at the things the marketing people put in the manuals.

At another company, the marketing people asked the engineers to review and redline the manuals before the final copy. Sometimes the changes would be made, and sometimes they wouldn't be made.

really thats weird and funny
maybe if the AV companies explained more on passive bi-amp instead of saying "higher quality sound can be achieved though bi-amp" (or something like that) people like me (but still learning more on this) wouldnt be so confused on this
right??? lmao smh
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post #16 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genesplitter View Post

Here is a really great article explaining the benefits of bi-amping, and why bi-wiring (bi-amping and keeping the passive crossover) is a gimmick - http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#common-question
thx will read!!!!
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post #17 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Are you looking for more power? Just add an amp. As long as you have preouts, not sure of your AVR. There are affordable Behringer amps out there for a for a few hundred.
i spent so much thus far on my home theather....smh lol that thought never crossed my mind
will look into that thx
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post #18 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:50 PM
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Hahaha, that chart made me laugh.
If I'm looking at that correctly, marketing/sales have the worst ears, followed by professional reviewers. The best untrained ears are from audio retailers?
Hahahaha!
So much for "golden ears" lol.
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post #19 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Manuals are written by marketeers, not engineers. So-called passive bi-amping does nothing, neither does bi-wiring. Manufacturers include those options so that they won't lose a sale to someone who's been convinced that they do work.

really
thats is not good
i would assume that the manual would be written by engineers (or anybody else that help made them )that had made the receivers instead of marketeers???
shame on the marketeers lol smh
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post #20 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post


Hahaha, that chart made me laugh.
If I'm looking at that correctly, marketing/sales have the worst ears, followed by professional reviewers. The best untrained ears are from audio retailers?
Hahahaha!
So much for "golden ears" lol.

dam smh im speechless for a sec lol
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post #21 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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has anybody tried the bi-amp mode on your receivers???
tell me your experiences
even if it is small
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post #22 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 03:03 PM
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My honest experience before I got wise. I tried biwire first with no noticeable difference. Then I tried biamp with no noticeable difference. Now I have my towers biwired because Im too lazy to change it and Im running front heights. Big difference and I love it.

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post #23 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

My honest experience before I got wise. I tried biwire first with no noticeable difference. Then I tried biamp with no noticeable difference. Now I have my towers biwired because Im too lazy to change it and Im running front heights. Big difference and I love it.

yup that what i noticed when i turned my bi-amp on and bi-wired my speakers
my highs and lows were alil more noticeable but at the cost of losing presence lol
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post #24 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 04:55 PM
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I'm pretty sure he meant his front heights is what made a big difference not his biwiring, biamping.

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post #25 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 05:37 PM
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I'm pretty sure he meant his front heights is what made a big difference not his biwiring, biamping.
Correct.

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post #26 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

My honest experience before I got wise. I tried biwire first with no noticeable difference. Then I tried biamp with no noticeable difference. Now I have my towers biwired because Im too lazy to change it and Im running front heights. Big difference and I love it.

I tried mine, too. No real difference and then left them bi-wired because I was also lazy smile.gif

However, I bet those front heights DO make a good difference.

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post #27 of 27 Old 04-21-2013, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I'm pretty sure he meant his front heights is what made a big difference not his biwiring, biamping.
opps
i did misunderstood that.....opps
lol
but now i get it!!!! thx
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