Given 5K to spend on a 7.1 dedicated theater room.. how would you do it? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Goride View Post

I agree on a few things they just said:

If you want to go with JTR, I definitely agree with starting with a 5.1 or 5.2 system. Rather than going with 4 Hsu surrounds, see if you can swing two Single 8s. If I were sold on JTR, I would go with 3 228HT for the fronts and 2 Single 8s as surrounds. You can always add more surrounds as budget allows in the future. (also too bad you didn't start this earlier, the JTR 228HTs were only $999 two months ago, they are $1199 now). This definitely busts your original budget, but it looks like you are willing to up it.

If you are serious about this, I definitely support the idea of getting REW and a mic (like the umm-6 suggeted above, a umik-1, or any of the other capable mics). You can find a lot more about REW at http://www.hometheatershack.com . The REW software is free (you just need a laptop). The mics are around $100 (give or take). And depending on your laptop, you may, or may not, need a few other relatively cheap parts/cables. If you are going to be dropping over $5,000 on speakers, there is little reason not to get REW to help you set things up correctly. (if you are willing to get REW, I think the 1522k is the best receiver to go with, because it is the only one of the ones listed that allows you to manually adjust all the eq settings. The 1522k probably does not do quite as good of a job auto eqing as the other ones, but it gives you the greatest ability, by far, to manually do it. If you look into REW and decide that is too much and over your head, then maybe you should stick with one of the Audyssey receivers.)

I agree with demoing the speakers first. Maybe order a few pairs from different vendors. Order a pair of Ascend 340se, JTR 228HT, JTR Single8s, Klipsh THX Ultra2, etc. Then test them out in your room with your equipment. See if you can tell the differences, see which ones you like better. Then send the other ones back. Sure, you will have to pay for shipping, and that will eat into your budget, but at least you will know.

Finally, you do need to factor in shipping costs for the speakers/subs. Sub shipping is no joke (over $100). But if you order multiples, you generally get discounts, so that can compensate for the shipping costs.

dual rythmik FV15HP's were around 2573.00 shipped when I was sub shopping three weeks ago. Dual XS 30's are around 2183.10 shipped.
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post #92 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 10:38 AM
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The Ascends must be pretty decent if they are relativity being compared to the JTR's that are double, triple the price.
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post #93 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post

The Ascends must be pretty decent if they are relativity being compared to the JTR's that are double, triple the price.

I do like Ascend speakers and yes a pair of CMT-340 is a LOT cheaper then a pair of Single 8's, but I think in HT use the Single 8's would outclass the CMT'340's.
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post #94 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post

The Ascends must be pretty decent if they are relativity being compared to the JTR's that are double, triple the price.


I have not heard the JTR speakers. But I have no doubt that they are better for HT use. Especially if you are playing them at, or above, THX reference levels.

However, I would wager the differences between a speaker like the Ascend 340se and the JTR offerings would be a lot less noticeable if you were playing a movie at -10db from reference level (in a room his size). I would wager that the JTR offerings would still come out ahead at lower than reference levels, but by how much? Enough to justify $550 a pair vs over $2000 a pair? I have my doubts. And that extra money could go to the subs and acoustic treatments for the room, which would likely have greater impact.

Also, the Ascends were mentioned because the OP had a budget of $5,000. It is my opinion he cannot do a proper setup using JTR offerings for $5,000. However, the OP seems to be willing to almost double his budget now. If he is willing to do that, then the JTR is probably the way to go.

In otherwords, I was never trying to say the 340se is in the same class as 228HT. I just think given the OPs listening levels, original spending budet, etc., going with the 340se saves a lot of money that can be better used elsewhere. But I have no doubt that the 228HT can outshine the 340se (especially at or above reference levels).
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post #95 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 12:03 PM
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No you make good points Goride and the Ascends are great value. I think the OP just needs to hear the JTR speakers like he's mentioned he's going too and then go from there as to what direction he's going to go with from there.
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post #96 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 12:09 PM
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OH and for what it is worth:

3 - JTR 228HT
2 - JTR Single 8
2 - Rythmik FV15HP
1 - AVR (Pioneer 1522k or Marantz 5007)
= $8298.25
That price includes %5 discount for the JTRs. It assumes OP can pick up JTRs so free shipping. It includes discount on Rythmik subs. It includes shipping for rythmik subs. The Pioneer and Marantz AVRs are both $599 - add the difference if Onkyo 818 is picked.



(Also OP could go with a JTR sub, and pick it up for free shipping, and also get the discount. But the JTR subs are much more expensive.)
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post #97 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

No you make good points Goride and the Ascends are great value. I think the OP just needs to hear the JTR speakers like he's mentioned he's going too and then go from there as to what direction he's going to go with from there.


I agree.

Ideally, it would be nice if he could demo them both in the same room, with same equipment, with same sound source. That way he could hear the differences, and decide for himself if the differences are worth the extra money.

Personally, if you are going to be spending several thousand dollars on a sound system, I think eating $100 or so in shipping costs is worth finding that out.



Also, I think a lot of this discussion has come down to personal preferences and differences in philosophies. Some say to spend extra on the front stage, but compromise on the surrounds and sub(s). Others would say to compromise a little on the frontstage to balance out the surrounds and subs. And still others might say to compromise on the frontstage and surrounds and drop it all on the subs biggrin.gif . I guess everyone just has to decide for themselves which direction they want to go with. Although, there is another way to compromise... you can compromise your budget and then have it all tongue.gif .
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post #98 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goride View Post

Personally, if you are going to be spending several thousand dollars on a sound system, I think eating $100 or so in shipping costs is worth finding that out.

I definitely agree here.

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post #99 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sonichart View Post

@jbrown15, ok you mention that the single 8's and Noesis 228's are completely different designs... I get that, but what is the advantage of one over the other? Sorry, but I'm just trying to understand the cost/performance difference.

So looks like I can narrow this down to two preliminary options. Sounds like I can't miss with JTR and as soon as I hear from a rep, I will go do a demo. But as it is now:

Option 1:
Receiver - Onkyo 818? ~800
L/C/R - JTR Single 8's x3 ~$900 ea
Surrounds - HSU HB-1 MK2 x4 ~$160 ea
Rhythmik FV15HP? ~$1270
Total ~$5000.

Option 2:
Receiver - Pioneer 1522k ~$600 (if available at that price)
L/C/R - JTR Noesis 228HT x3 ~1200 ea
Surrounds - HSU HB-1 MK2 x4 ~ $160 ea
Rhythmik F25 x2 ~ $1400 ea
Total ~7500

Question for option 2. Can I go with just one F25 sub for the time being and upgrade later? Are the HSU surrounds adequate for my option #2 setup?

You might just go with option 1. Is option 2 better? yes, but you are going well past your $5k budget, and where does it end. You are also not factoring in shipping and tax into the equation, so as bad as it is now, it is going to get worse. There is also all the accessories you will need, like mounts, cables, wall jacks, etc. and those can add up. If you go with Hsu for surrounds, make sure to send them a message and ask if you can get a discount for a 4 pack, they should be able to knock a little off the price.
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post #100 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 02:23 PM
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Of course for an extra $900 with option 1 he could swap out the Single 8's to 228HT's for his LCR set up and then down the road sell the HSU's and upgrade to Single 8's.
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post #101 of 112 Old 04-25-2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Of course for an extra $900 with option 1 he could swap out the Single 8's to 228HT's for his LCR set up and then down the road sell the HSU's and upgrade to Single 8's.

+1

That's a good option as long as he doesn't build-in his surrounds or first designs around the Single 8's and just places the HSU's temporarily. We still don't know how dedicated and theater-like this room is going to look besides the AT screen.

And I still think the OP should try hard for the 1522k receiver at Costco. wink.gif

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post #102 of 112 Old 08-04-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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OP here, thought I would post an update on my audio system research. After much reading and research I think I've finally made a decision that makes the most sense.

When someone first suggested I go the DIY route and build some waveguide kits I was initially pretty intimidated by the prospect of such a project.... but looking the diysoundgroup website and countless build threads, I think I can do this. In fact, it looks like it will significantly reduce the money I had previously allocated when I was thinking JTRs all around. So here is my current solution and my only real concern is whether or not this setup would be overkill for my room. Again, the dimensions are roughly 22' x 15' x 8' ... I should also make note that (per the wife's instruction...) I did NOT decouple or DD+GG the room. 3 of the four walls have concrete foundation behind them, but soundproofing was never a concern for the wife or I.

Moving on the equipment

TDM12 SEOS-12 (x3) for LCR ~ $1600 not including shipping
Fusion 8 Alchemy Kit (x4) for surrounds ~ $750 not including shipping
Dayton RSS460HO-4 18" (x2) for subs ~ $750 not including shipping
Behringer iNuke 3000 to power the subs ~ $400 not including shipping
Dennon X4000 Receiver ~ $1000

That puts me at $4500. I know I haven't accounted for painting the speakers etc, but those project items won't break the bank... This seems really doable and I'm excited about starting this project, again my only concern is that the walls don't come tumbling down on me because of sound system going in.

Thanks!
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post #103 of 112 Old 08-04-2013, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post

OP here, thought I would post an update on my audio system research. After much reading and research I think I've finally made a decision that makes the most sense.

When someone first suggested I go the DIY route and build some waveguide kits I was initially pretty intimidated by the prospect of such a project.... but looking the diysoundgroup website and countless build threads, I think I can do this. In fact, it looks like it will significantly reduce the money I had previously allocated when I was thinking JTRs all around. So here is my current solution and my only real concern is whether or not this setup would be overkill for my room. Again, the dimensions are roughly 22' x 15' x 8' ... I should also make note that (per the wife's instruction...) I did NOT decouple or DD+GG the room. 3 of the four walls have concrete foundation behind them, but soundproofing was never a concern for the wife or I.

Moving on the equipment

TDM12 SEOS-12 (x3) for LCR ~ $1600 not including shipping
Fusion 8 Alchemy Kit (x4) for surrounds ~ $750 not including shipping
Dayton RSS460HO-4 18" (x2) for subs ~ $750 not including shipping
Behringer iNuke 3000 to power the subs ~ $400 not including shipping
Dennon X4000 Receiver ~ $1000

That puts me at $4500. I know I haven't accounted for painting the speakers etc, but those project items won't break the bank... This seems really doable and I'm excited about starting this project, again my only concern is that the walls don't come tumbling down on me because of sound system going in.

Thanks!
The Denon X4000 is a great buy. For the money that unit has allot of bells and whistles.
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post #104 of 112 Old 08-04-2013, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post

OP here, thought I would post an update on my audio system research. After much reading and research I think I've finally made a decision that makes the most sense.

When someone first suggested I go the DIY route and build some waveguide kits I was initially pretty intimidated by the prospect of such a project.... but looking the diysoundgroup website and countless build threads, I think I can do this. In fact, it looks like it will significantly reduce the money I had previously allocated when I was thinking JTRs all around. So here is my current solution and my only real concern is whether or not this setup would be overkill for my room. Again, the dimensions are roughly 22' x 15' x 8' ... I should also make note that (per the wife's instruction...) I did NOT decouple or DD+GG the room. 3 of the four walls have concrete foundation behind them, but soundproofing was never a concern for the wife or I.

Moving on the equipment

TDM12 SEOS-12 (x3) for LCR ~ $1600 not including shipping
Fusion 8 Alchemy Kit (x4) for surrounds ~ $750 not including shipping
Dayton RSS460HO-4 18" (x2) for subs ~ $750 not including shipping
Behringer iNuke 3000 to power the subs ~ $400 not including shipping
Dennon X4000 Receiver ~ $1000

That puts me at $4500. I know I haven't accounted for painting the speakers etc, but those project items won't break the bank... This seems really doable and I'm excited about starting this project, again my only concern is that the walls don't come tumbling down on me because of sound system going in.

Thanks!

Yeah, you will have an awesome setup there. That is similar to what I would do if I had to redo my theater. One small change I would make is I might switch to the SI 18" drivers, they seem to be slightly better according to the testing done at data-bass.com, and are cheaper. You will probably want some kind of equalizer for the subs too for flattening the response out and for limiting low frequencies, and miniDSP seems to be a popular solution for that at the moment. Audyssey can only do so much. There is a big thread on the miniDSP in the DIY forum, you might ask about its abilities there. Also, the inuke 3000 can be had for $300 shipped here, instead of $400 that you have listed.
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post #105 of 112 Old 08-04-2013, 08:53 PM
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Great choice, but I would just get the tempest over the ae speaker route because you will never know when you will receive your speaker. 6m a year, who knows.
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post #106 of 112 Old 08-04-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Yeah, you will have an awesome setup there. That is similar to what I would do if I had to redo my theater. One small change I would make is I might switch to the SI 18" drivers, they seem to be slightly better according to the testing done at data-bass.com, and are cheaper. You will probably want some kind of equalizer for the subs too for flattening the response out and for limiting low frequencies, and miniDSP seems to be a popular solution for that at the moment. Audyssey can only do so much. There is a big thread on the miniDSP in the DIY forum, you might ask about its abilities there. Also, the inuke 3000 can be had for $300 shipped here, instead of $400 that you have listed.



I agree, this will be a GREAT setup. For 5 grand I don't know how you can do better - great job doing some research and coming up with incredible bang for the buck.

He will be just fine with the Dayton's. I own the SI subs and they are awesome but I have also had a dual opposed Dayton HO 18"s in my room and it was every bit as impressive. You can't go wrong either way, both of these drivers are a game changer IMO, in fact there is no way I would have gone DIY (coming from dual Seaton Submersives) until these drivers became available at such crazy low prices.

Not that the JTR system wouldn't have been incredible. I own JTR speakers and wouldn't trade it for anything but I have heard 2 pairs of SEOS speakers and if I didn't have the budget for JTR going DIY SEOS would have been an obvious decision.

Yes, you will want a minidsp for sure. If you don't get something to eq you will have a huge 30hz ish hump in the frequency response.
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post #107 of 112 Old 08-05-2013, 07:40 AM
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Hey, what about the used set of 888's on the classifieds! You can get a 5.1 setup of JTR for $2900! 3 888's and two slanted 8's with a passive Cap 2400! That is would very hard to beat at that price! Also, there are 3 eD cinema 12's with DE-250's for sale which would compete against the seos and they are already built and for $700 for all 3! These are awesome deals guys and great performers. If you have room their are about 3-4 DTS-10 subs as well, they kick butt.

LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
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post #108 of 112 Old 08-05-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you will want a minidsp for sure. If you don't get something to eq you will have a huge 30hz ish hump in the frequency response.

This right here is what I need to begin to educate myself on. On most of the thread-posts I see graphs and screenshot of audio software analysis. Where do I get this software? How do I use it? I don't even know what a 30hz hump in frequency does. Is there any fine tuning that needs to be done when implementing a Mini-DSP to my system?

With regard to the subs, I've already run a single RCA cable for each sub ahead of time.... but I'm thinking I need to re-pull the cables with regular speaker cable so I can then use speakon connectors for the 18" subs. Am I correct in thinking that the two RCA cables are no good for this application? I don't think I can cut the RCA connector and attach a speakon.
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post #109 of 112 Old 08-05-2013, 09:17 AM
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The Inuke3000 should have the EQ you need to get it done, no need for extra EQ.

LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #110 of 112 Old 08-05-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Hey, what about the used set of 888's on the classifieds! You can get a 5.1 setup of JTR for $2900! 3 888's and two slanted 8's with a passive Cap 2400! That is would very hard to beat at that price! Also, there are 3 eD cinema 12's with DE-250's for sale which would compete against the seos and they are already built and for $700 for all 3! These are awesome deals guys and great performers. If you have room their are about 3-4 DTS-10 subs as well, they kick butt.

Woah! You should jump all over this, that is a hell of a deal. You would have plenty left over for a 2nd passive cap and amp to power them.
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post #111 of 112 Old 08-05-2013, 10:22 AM
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Also, he said he would love JTR so this is his chance at getting what he wanted and never second guessing.

LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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post #112 of 112 Old 08-05-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I would love to go JTR and I've actually already PM'd the seller. My concern is dropping $2900 on 5 speakers that are 4-5 years old ... I would also have to drive 12 hours to pick them up. Also, that only get's me a 5 speakers. I still think $4500 DIY out the door for a full 7.2 system with AVR and iNuke is the better way to go. At some point down the road if I find myself wanting to upgrade the audio I will have a larger budget and a big decision to make if jumping to JTRs. Right now, a comparable system using only JTRs is roughly 12K-13K in price ... I can't imagine the JTRs are $10,000.00 better than what I want to do with DIYs.
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