B&W 805d or JTR Noesis 228HT for 5.1 HT? - AVS Forum
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone,

I have $8k to spend on a home theater setup. I listen to Music 30% and HT 70%. This will probably change as I choose the right speakers.
The room is a living room with hard wood flooring and vaulted ceilings. It is about 18 feet in length, 12 feet in width and 12 feet in height.
Lots of windows. I'll have a carpet in there and will do some sound treatments.

I have auditioned various speakers from Definite's, Bowers & Wilkins, Golden Ear, Energy's, Klipsch and more. I am also aware of Internet one like Seaton and JTR for example.

What has been recommended to me were the JTR Noesis 228HT for the the fronts and center. I can't listen to them since they are only sold direct.

I did listen to various Bowers & Wilkins speakers today for a few hours including the CM9 and the Diamond Series.

I have limited space next to the TV and a bookshelf or very slim floor-standing speaker would be required (nothing bulky).

The Bowers & Wilkins 805d (Diamond series) sounded absolutely fantastic, especially for 2.0 music. I have a good sub already that will take care of the low frequencies (they taper off at around 45 Hz.)

Does anyone have listened to both of these speakers? Alternatively, does anyone think there are better choices in the $2k/speaker price-range? I need to be able to actually audition them (so no directs).

Thanks,

Michael
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:33 PM
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Well first things first, seeing that this is your first post welcome to the forums! Could I ask where are you located?
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:56 PM
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Can you take a picture of your room and post it. I suspect you would be better off with bookshelves based on your description. Trying to cram large floor standing speakers into a limited space is a bad idea. B&W CM9 speakers really need about 2-3 ft from all walls to sound their best, and many speakers are similar.

A picture is worth a thousand words smile.gif
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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@brown15 - I am in San Antonio, TX

@ack_bk - I am attaching a bunch of pics with arrow descriptions on each. in my next post.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Gents,

Below are a few pictures of my living room and how it connects from the dining room and hallway as well as the kitchen. A

As you can see, there is a large entry from the dining room into the living room and one of the challenges with that is the small brick wall to the right of the fireplace. It will be a challenge to find a space for the right-rear surround since the couch would be further to the back. Maybe it can be attached to the ceiling above the entry?

Note the the current TV will be replaced with a 60 inch.

I made some comments (in black with arrow) on each picture other than the last panorama view.

Thanks in advance for your help.







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Old 04-25-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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@ack_bk - I listened to the CM9's and they sound good but the 805d's sounded so much better when I listened to them side-by-side. I think they would also be a better match as bookshelfs on their stands in my small space on top of the brick. The CM9's didn't separate the tonals very well, especially in the mids and highs. The 805's will need a strong AVR to drive them and really shine when played loud, especially classical and jazz music. Of course, they are $2,500 each, but that is still in my range, though upper-limit. I have an older Denon AVR-2313ci. and wonder if that would be enough to drive
these or if I need to upgrade to a Denon AVR-4520 or a NAD.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:37 AM
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I suggest that you look at the Gallo Acoustics Classico speakers, which are really excellent.

The main speakers, the CL-3, are only 7.3 inches wide, and are really amazing speakers. The power and bass they put out is extremely hard to believe for their size.

They have an actual footprint 11 inches deep, but they project out slightly in front a bit further up. It looks perfect for your locations in the pictures.

I suggest that you read the review of this system at avguide.com, which uses a pair of CL-3 speakers and a pair of CL-2 speakers, and their matching Center.

You can get the system for around $3000 (not including the Gallo sub,which I do not recommend). Actually, you could just use four of the CL-2 speakers and the Center since you already have the subwoofer. Then the cost would be $800 less.

You can try them in your home for 60 DAYS FREE!

That's right.

They will pay shipping both ways and refund your money, so you are not out one penny if you don't love them.

But once you hear them , you won't want to turn them loose...lol.

I guess that's why they can make such a crazy offer; they probably don't spend much on return shipping.

This system is so much better than anything B & W has for under $5000 that the comparison is ridiculous.

These are only sold direct from Gallo, and you save a LOT of money due to no dealer markup.

BTW- Your current receiver will drive them very nicely, as you will see when you try them. They are a much easier load to drive than many comparable speakers.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

I listened to the CM9's and they sound good but the 805d's sounded so much better when I listened to them side-by-side. I think they would also be a better match as bookshelfs on their stands in my small space on top of the brick. The CM9's didn't separate the tonals very well, especially in the mids and highs.
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Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

The Bowers & Wilkins 805d (Diamond series) sounded absolutely fantastic, especially for 2.0 music. I have a good sub already that will take care of the low frequencies (they taper off at around 45 Hz.)

For $8K, I wouldn't just trust someone's opinion either - trust your ears.

You can see how you PREFERRED the 805D2 over the CM9. Not everyone will think the same. So it doesn't matter what someone thinks, trust your own ears.

Sure, people can say they like some speakers better because they prefer them or because they have better speaker measurements, etc. But at the end of the day, you have to be happy with the sound, not other people.

A good friendly dealer should be able to get you 10% discount, especially if you buy all five speakers (all five 805D2 speakers).

If you can audition locally, try the Klipsch KL-650 THX Ultra2 speakers. I know you can get them street price cheaper than even the JTR Single8 speakers.

Here are two independent 3rd party published reviews w/ measurements:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/satellite/klipsch-thx-ultra2/page-5

http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-thx-ultra2-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

Audition them if you can. But again, if the 805D2 sound the best and absolutely fantastic to you, then should should buy them.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Should I go for the CL-3 or Cl-4 for the fronts? Given that I won't need a new AMP and sub (which is the SVS-PB1000), I have extra money.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I like that the CL-4 goes down to 26hz (at least on paper) with high dB output.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:29 AM
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Well, the CL-3 has a lot of bass, and the CL-4 will probably not fit the space you have there on the brick area. It is deeper.

I would be inclined to go with the CL-3. I think the sub you have will be quite adequate. I have played my CL-3s at volumes loud enough that the marching band seemed to be 10 feet away there in the street and the bass drums were in my face...lol. No distortion.

In any case, you could always return the CL-3 within 60 days and buy the CL-4 if you decided to change.

If your current sub is not quite enough, I recommend the NHT B12D, which is $700. It is only a 14-inch cube, which is very compact for a 12-inch sub.

I have used it for a couple of years (the last year with the CL-3 speakers) and it is excellent. It is very linear and has tons of power.





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Should I go for the CL-3 or Cl-4 for the fronts? Given that I won't need a new AMP and sub (which is the SVS-PB1000), I have extra money.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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@commsysman - I like your advice. There is a dealer here in San Antonio that carries Gallo. I am waiting to hear back to see if they have the CL-3s which I think I will get if the sound is right.
Either way, I'll order these for a try-out. How long do these usually take to brake-in? For the center and surrounds, what do you suggest? Thanks.

To the others on this thread, what is your input on this one?
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
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For $8K, I wouldn't just trust someone's opinion either - trust your ears.

You can see how you PREFERRED the 805D2 over the CM9. Not everyone will think the same. So it doesn't matter what someone thinks, trust your own ears.

Sure, people can say they like some speakers better because they prefer them or because they have better speaker measurements, etc. But at the end of the day, you have to be happy with the sound, not other people.

A good friendly dealer should be able to get you 10% discount, especially if you buy all five speakers (all five 805D2 speakers).

If you can audition locally, try the Klipsch KL-650 THX Ultra2 speakers. I know you can get them street price cheaper than even the JTR Single8 speakers.

Here are two independent 3rd party published reviews w/ measurements:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/satellite/klipsch-thx-ultra2/page-5

http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-thx-ultra2-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

Audition them if you can. But again, if the 805D2 sound the best and absolutely fantastic to you, then should should buy them.

I keep hearing a few people say that but I'd like to know who's selling KL-650 speakers for $900ea.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok. I am going to order the Gallo's since they pay for the shipping and give you 60 days to try them. The local dealer highly recommends Gallo speakers
but he doesn't carry them anymore since they are mostly directly now. I think I need setup the speakers in my own home to really make a decision. Everything
sounds different in a dealer's setup room.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Ok. I am going to order the Gallo's since they pay for the shipping and give you 60 days to try them. The local dealer highly recommends Gallo speakers
but he doesn't carry them anymore since they are mostly directly now. I think I need setup the speakers in my own home to really make a decision. Everything
sounds different in a dealer's setup room.

Hearing speakers in your own room is absolutely the best way to go about buying speakers.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

@commsysman - I like your advice. There is a dealer here in San Antonio that carries Gallo. I am waiting to hear back to see if they have the CL-3s which I think I will get if the sound is right.
Either way, I'll order these for a try-out. How long do these usually take to brake-in? For the center and surrounds, what do you suggest? Thanks.

To the others on this thread, what is your input on this one?

I think it is great advice to demo in your own home.

Aperion, SVS, and EmpTek are all companies who have a no risk policy on demoing speakers (you pay no shipping costs or restocking fees at all if you choose to return them, obviously with some caveats such as the speakers being in mint condition).

I think the Gallo's make complete sense but look at some of those other brands I mentioned. A smaller bookshelf speaker may be a better way to go due to your room constraints. Many floorstanding speakers need 1-3ft from all boundary walls to sound good. I would be careful of rear ported speakers being placed close to a wall, for example. Every speaker is different.

As far as a center channel goes, where are you planning to place it? Will you have room above your TV?
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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@ack_bk - I am going to test the whole Gallo 5.1 setup they have with my SVS sub and Denon AVR-2313. I talked to them today and they mentioned that an inch from the wall would be fine for those speakers. We'll see how they sound.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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For the center, I am going with the Gallo as well and will place it right underneath the TV at ear level.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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@comsysman - You mentioned to pass on the Gallo sub. What was the reasoning on that?
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:47 AM
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I like the choice of Gallo. I'm a B&W owner who is switching to JTR but I have a dedicated HT room and am placing the JTR's behind a false wall with screen, not a living room. I have a similar family room/great room as yours, and I would either go the B&W or Gallo or similar for my great room.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:55 AM
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I heard the CL-3 at my house a while back. Despite their specs, they definitely need a sub, which you have, so that is a good thing. Their tweeter was pretty good as far as clarity, imaging etc. Although they were not my favorite, they might be perfect for your room given their small size. Also, it is good that they will be up on that brick, as on the ground the tweeter was a little too low. I have read that the Gallo speakers have a special type of damping material in them that gets jostled during shipping. So, probably wise to give then a decent break in period.

Another member I know spoke highly of the new Kef LS50. It has a unique look, but might be went considering.

I would say that the JTRs would look out of place in your room, just my opinion.

Some other slim towers to consider are the Paradigm Millenia and Defintive Mythos towers.

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Old 05-03-2013, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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@NewHTbuyer - I listened to the Definite's today and didn't like them. I listened to the Paradigm Studio 60s and limoced them as part of the 5.1 setup with the CC590 for center and ADP590's for the rears. I made my decision... :-)
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:07 PM
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I would have gone with the JTR's since you stated that you are mostly going to watch movies. But even with 2 channel music the JTR's would have been the right choice. I personally would not own Anthony Gallo speakers, as they hurt my ears at high volume, but hey I hope it works out for you. At least you can return them. Just don't throw the boxes away.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:19 PM
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You guys have to realize that looks are part of the equation. Do you think his wife would let him put those JTR in their living room? They may sound amazing but they look like they belong in a teenagers basement....

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:42 PM
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You guys have to realize that looks are part of the equation. Do you think his wife would let him put those JTR in their living room? They may sound amazing but they look like they belong in a teenagers basement....

You have to realize that the last post in this thread was over 8 months ago....lol

I would guess that the OP has probably moved on from this or ended up buying something. Also my wife wouldn't have any issues if I put my JTR's in the living room. Once they are on stands they look like just another black speaker.
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